Shoulder tackle. I know this skill would make tomahawk pretty useless for a number of situations but I feel like shoulder tackle fits the warrior playstyle so well that it not being cross-class is a huge letdown.
Invigorate. Yes, I know WARs don't share lancer abilities and we should structure play around conservation of TP (not to mention this gives peon more use) BUT I'm already getting to the point on fights like T4 that I'm fighting to take it easy on my TP use and if Square chooses to implement longer marathon-like battles, WAR and WHM are going to be the first ones running on fumes.
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03-14-2014, 03:01 AMNethersideTwo cross-class abilities that would invariably benefit WAR quality of life
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03-14-2014, 03:28 AMShinkyo
I would love to cross class with Lancer... I find that it would be such a good match with WAR compared to PUG (even in style since they both use 2 hand weapons).
if that would be the case, I'd want to be able to choose between:
- Invigorate, obviously for OT situation where we focus on DPS
- Keen flurry, would make so much sense for WAR to have a buff that increased parry rates
- Feint, applying a slow debuff on mob? good for tanks
- Life Surge, a perfect combo with IB to get more self heals
- Blood for Blood, sacrificing mitigation for damage fit my image of WAR pretty well.
Though B4B might be too much, I feel these would be great fits without breaking the current balance.
Then, give PLD to cross class with PUG so they too get a slight improvements... Cuz cross-classing WAR sucks for them really... -
03-14-2014, 06:02 AMLemon8or
Shoulder Tackle: wut? What kind of warriors do you play? Also it's a monk's JOB abilities so it makes no sense.
Invigorate: Overpower got an enmity increase so you don't have to spam it as much now. As an AOE, it does mediocre damage anyway. Warrior's TP isn't that bad to manage. -
03-14-2014, 06:13 AMAnienai
Wow's war class has charge.
Swtor's jugg/guardian use a force leap.
I could see it working for Warrior. -
03-14-2014, 06:15 AMShinkyoIt's not so much of an issue but there are certain fights where as OT I'd run out of tp if I don't slow down a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon8or
In T5, I can out of TP by the time I reach divebombs if I go all out.
@OP: I was wondering why we'd want Shoulder Tackle but it's true that if would make sense as a way to keep out Wrath up just like monk with Greased Lightning... -
03-14-2014, 06:26 AMLemon8orGreased Lightning has a 12 seconds duration and at least 6-7 seconds to get through the combos to get it back. Wrath has 30 seconds duration and only takes at most 5 seconds to get it refresh (Wrath, not Infuriated). Totally make sense.... Anyway, it's a JOB ability. Warrior will never be able to cross-CLASS it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
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03-14-2014, 06:34 AMcearka
yeah I kinda wish war's tertiary was lancer and not pug. the Pug abilities don't help all that much.
also, I can't help but wonder why rampart and flight or fight isn't cross class. -
03-14-2014, 07:49 AMjunigleeWarrior with Unchained, Berserk, Fight or Flight, Internal Release?Quote:
Originally Posted by cearka
Deeps level damage lol. -
03-14-2014, 08:10 AMNicodareusInvigorate would give a huge advantage to War over a Paladin by being able to replenish TP. Yes Paladin can replenish mana for flash but flash doesn't equal overpower in threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
Keen Flurry instead of Feather foot - yes makes more sense
Feint doesn't apply to bosses I don't believe
Life Surge and IB would have been massively OP before the 2.1 changes. Considering the mitigation change, LS crit+ healing combo IMO still would be OP
B4B - definitely added for War DPS but tanking might get you killed because a healer might just say f that lol. Marauder you still have it though. -
03-15-2014, 02:21 AMShinkyoYou'd be trading Internal Release for Life surge plus with a 90s cooldown you'd only be able to do it every 4 IB for an extra 400 hp which is what second wind would do (actually, second wind would be better since you can crit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodareus
Edit: my bad, it'd add much more since I forgot that LS gives full damage as self heals (up to 10% of HP)... you'd get 700hp from IB alone on crit + another 700hp from LS and an extra 150hp with bloodbath. You'd almost revert to 2.0 IB, I love it :D -
03-18-2014, 04:59 AMMarxam
A good warrior QoL is to have mantra at 20% as a cross over skill and for monks make it a -30 sec reduction as their class trait (ie. 90 sec gcd but 120 sec gcd for cross-class). Heck I'll even take 10% because most of the time monks don't use this skill and its super effective for a tank who can provide a heal buff for himself and their parity.
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03-18-2014, 05:24 AMLemon8orProblem with this is not just warrior can cross-class mantra. Dragoons and Bards can too. When you make this change, there will be less reasons to bring Monk at all besides for damage. Mantra isn't supposed to be used whenever it's available. A good monk will know when to pop his Mantra that can help either the tank or the party or both. Titan EX for example, monk can pop it between the main tank and the group so they all have the bonus healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
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03-18-2014, 05:47 PMMcshiggsWhatever dps job that branches from marauder in the future will most likely get lancer as a class for cross class skills, the reasoning giving them pugilist I believe is that it gives a couple different options you can toss around, and remember that warrior is a tank job, not dps, first for lower levels you get a self heal with second wind, it sucks later on, you can make it a bit better if you do things like berserk and mantra first, but that is a second skill slot needed to make it decent, so I look at it as mainly for leveling. Second, warrior has no real reactive skills, giving them featherfoot+haymaker gives them a bit of a defensive cooldown that adds a reactive debuff skill, so you can get a little more than just chaining combos if you want. Warrior has a huge advantage over paladin when it comes to aoe threat/damage, and the tradeoff is that it makes you think about it to manage your TP for things like T4, I know I only want to have to overpower maybe 2 or 3 for the center drops, that way I have more than enough TP to get through the next couple phases until the next center drop, I know I can do more for more damage, but my group has a black mage there for that, so I don't have to worry about topping damage, just make sure the black mage stays alive. People see the big axe and just want damage, but it actually makes sense to me how they did things if you just remember that warrior is a tank, there will come a time when they get a dps job, and then I imagine nerfs will be pretty frequent, because the potential is there for huge damage while still being able to survive almost like a tank. The cross class skills do give you a couple type of style options if you play around with them, you don't always have to go by someone's guide telling you what is the best, because different situations can call for different needs, that's why we can swap those skills as we see fit. And yeah, shoulder tackle, that is a job ability, we have cross class, not cross job, that would be like giving scholar Benediction or Holy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netherside
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03-19-2014, 01:50 AMUnmotivated
I'd love WAR's off-spec to be LNC purely for Keen Flurry, that alone would completely overshadow anything PGL offers. B4B would sure be nice to mix with Unchained + Berserk and maybe Vengeance during trash, but Invigorate is being overrated.
Literally the only time Invigorate might actually make a difference is turn 4, a fight specifically designed to force people to pace their TP use. Because you recover roughly 60 TP every GCD, and just about every time you hit 5 Wrath you'll be using a TP-free GCD ability, WAR is practically immune to TP starvation outside of Overpower spam, and that's supposed to drain you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodareus
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03-19-2014, 02:24 AMHeroicbanditInvigorate is overkill. I never have problems with TP even in Turn 4. Just manage AoE more efficiently and utilize the free threat from Steel Cyclone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinkyo
Keen Flurry makes so much sense on WAR, especially since they decided not to give us Rampart from GLA.
Feint would add too much to our rotation, not to mention its near useless on many boss encounters.
Life Surge would be too much in terms of healing when mixed with IB.
Blood for Blood while would be neat during non-tanking parts of encounters, would be incredibly counterproductive while tanking. -
03-19-2014, 02:51 AMbokchoyknWarrior is meant to run out of TP and have to conserve it to some extent. Physical DPS consumes TP at a higher rate than tanks but have access to Invigorate. Warrior and Paladin consume TP at a lower rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Netherside
Overpower is a very strong ability that is meant to be restricted by its high TP cost. You're supposed to think twice about your TP before using it. The fact that you've run out of TP means that you've overused it.
In Turn 4, what exactly are you doing to run out of TP?
Being able to hit 4+ mobs with Overpower doesn't necessarily mean that you should use it. Remember: You don't need to build as much enmity as you possibly can. You only need to generate enough aggro to stay above the DPs.
You should always enter the second phase with full TP (or at least 900). If you have less than that, you've overexerted yourself on the opening pull, probably too much Overpower.
Cross-class Flash on Turn 4. It helps you conserve TP on Phases 1 and 4, while still generating AoE aggro. Mix Flash in with Overpower and Steel Cyclone along with your single-target weapon skills. Avoid using it versus Knights. It's unnecessary (single-target is better) and it reflects damage onto you. -
03-19-2014, 03:02 AMShinkyoInvigorate and B4B would be for Off tanking scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroicbandit
I don't have any TP issue while tanking, but in T5 during the Fireball/conflag phase where I focus on DPS, I can run out of TP just by constantly doing SE>SP rotation during that phase.
Would be quite usefull for dungeon speed run where you also want to maximize AoE DPS and not just hold treat.
B4B would be good for DPS checks like Titan XM heart and superbombs as OT. The end game content has many encounters with tank swap where you could certainly afford to pop B4B in between swaps (e.g. all the XM primals fights).
WAR is a good MT but we're also excellent OTs (much better than PLD IMO) so I'd certainly welcome skills in that direction.
And even from a MT perspective, our current cross skills from MNK are so meaningless that I can do without them at all (I use them because I have them but they/re not making much of a difference...).
Life Surge, given the long CD, you wouldn't be able to abuse it. So while it does allow for a big burst in selfhealing, I don't think it'd be OP looking at the duration of the fight. Internal release can already provide a similar self healing burst if you can crit 2 IB while it's active.