Labyrinth of the Ancients is the ideal dungeon design more dungeons should emulate it

It's a shame that LotA is a Raid because it really has the right format for a good dungeon:
Trash mobs + Elite mobs > Major boss > mini boss > major boss > mini boss > major boss > big boss.

I get that the current dungeon design emulates the classic FF forumla. You enter a cave, fight waves of random encounters and defeat the boss at the end.

Problem is, FFXIV's battle system isn't tailored around short bursts of combat. There are too many trash mobs that kill the experience. They don't last longer than one skill rotation and it eventually becomes a game of monotonous button mashing.

FFXIV's battle system really shines during boss encounters. That's what makes Labyrinth of the Ancients the ideal dungeon design.

It's one linear instance involving waves of bosses. The boss mechanics are light enough for anyone to quickly understand, but has enough depth for the fight to remain interesting.

Could you imagine a 4-8 man instance like Labyrinth of the Ancients?

I'm hoping the game designers evolved from what they did with LotA and make the new 2.2 dungeons focus on boss battles.

I can't imagine it because 4 man is such a cop out design and wasted potential HOWEVER! it was originally SUPPOSED to be a 4 man dungeon you did before Crystal Tower but per usual, that all changed. It needed a bit more honestly, kind of like the actual Labyrinth of the Ancients. It felt too much like a boss rush than an actual labyrinth. (even if the original still technically was one too.)

The whole teleporter thing kinda made it meh. Otherwise they could introduce environmental risk element to make it more adventurous. It's always hard to make it rewarding to do trash mobs but there should be a way to do so. Like bonus seals if you chain kill trash etc with a hard cap per dungeon. Or challenge rewards.

With the ease of access that the Duty finder offers I think it would be great to have even more 8 man dungeons.
I still like the FF Themed 4 man parties but I don't think it works as well with the MMO style design. (Tank Healer DD). Maybe if 4 man content was reduced to anything goes it would feel more like a band of Returner misfits travelling from Narshe to Vector.

Disagree, but only slightly.

One of the most fun 4-man dungeons in this game is Copperbell HM - I think its extremely under-appreciated because of the fact that Haukke can be done much faster. But think about what they did:

Small amount of trash >
Series of groups of mobs rushing you while you destroy various barriers and are hit by random attacks >
Boss with low "difficulty" but a high risk with random bombs >
Jump down an elevator shaft >
Protect a group of miners while they mine through a door for you >
Boss that does not rely on really any traditional mechanics >
Trash (bleh) >
Boss that blends traditional mechanics, teamwork, and placement

Its very innovative compared to the rest of the dungeons as a whole. I'd like to see more dungeons that replace trash hall-way clears with objective based things . . . maybe randomized puzzles? Platforming? A CHOCOBO RACE?!?!?!

I golf clapped at the end of CB, I don't like mini boss > boss > mini boss > boss - I'm gonna go ahead and assume you main a SMN. 3-mob trash pulls bug the crap out of me as a MNK, so I feel your pain, lol.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Maybe if 4 man content was reduced to anything goes it would feel more like a band of Returner misfits travelling from Narshe to Vector.

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Up to Haukke Manor the dungeons can be run without a tank. Probably higher if you have a couple summoners.. It can be fun if you've never tried it :D

I would like 8 man dungeons for Labyrinth of the Ancients the only thing with trash mob I can see being any use in killing is if you clear them out and gives an extra meaningful bonus item in the treasue chest at the end of main boss fight.

4 man, but might have potenital

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Halatali HM is a new type of dungeon where you fight a series of bosses in colloseum style battle. Since the first Halatali, since the dungeon was cleared out of mobs the Gladiators guild have it changed into a colloseum for thier training but allowing adventurers to battle as well.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Up to Haukke Manor the dungeons can be run without a tank. Probably higher if you have a couple summoners.. It can be fun if you've never tried it :D

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Running without a tank does add to the dungeons. (LOL 4xSummoner+Titan Egi)
I think that the Duty Finder should que all 4-Man dungeons with any given priority to class, other than needing at least 1 healer.

It would add a bit more depth on "How are we going to get through this"

Per Reinhart's translation of some notes today:

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Halatali HM is a new type of dungeon where you fight a series of bosses in colloseum style battle. Since the first Halatali, since the dungeon was cleared out of mobs the Gladiators guild have it changed into a colloseum for thier training but allowing adventurers to battle as well.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Per Reinhart's translation of some notes today:

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Man! could it be, a final fantasy content is actually coming to FFXIV? Battle Arena!??

Gotta keep my hopes down so i don't get disappointed.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Up to Haukke Manor the dungeons can be run without a tank. Probably higher if you have a couple summoners.. It can be fun if you've never tried it :D

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ive ran the wanderer's palace in a 4 smn group, my next challenge is gonna be ak. using titan egi to position the bosses should be fun for that one

Black Rock Depths and Maraudon in WoW were innovative and awesome. That was 10 years ago, back when developers didn't make games for the drooling masses.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

ive ran the wanderer's palace in a 4 smn group, my next challenge is gonna be ak. using titan egi to position the bosses should be fun for that one

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Still a bit OT from LoA style Dungeons but pretty cool regardless.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Dungeon-Solos

they need to make dungeons with optional branches. every dungeon, every time you have to complete every objective.

all the 4 man dungeons right now are kill 3 bosses, get 1 chest from each, get myth at the end.

how about
- go East, kill a mini-boss that gives an extra 25 myth.
- go West, get locked in a room that throws 20 mobs at you, survive and get a chest with an item that you don't get from killing the main boss.

both are optional, don't want either of those, skip them and just clear the main boss.

or have meaningful time limits, with different bosses/objectives that will give you time extensions. if you're overgeared and super-skilled, just skip the time extension bosses and clear in 15 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

Still a bit OT from LoA style Dungeons but pretty cool regardless.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Dungeon-Solos

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awesome links, as a scholar main i am thoroughly impressed. looks like i could learn a thing or two from this guy

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

they need to make dungeons with optional branches. every dungeon, every time you have to complete every objective.

all the 4 man dungeons right now are kill 3 bosses, get 1 chest from each, get myth at the end.

how about
- go East, kill a mini-boss that gives an extra 25 myth.
- go West, get locked in a room that throws 20 mobs at you, survive and get a chest with an item that you don't get from killing the main boss.

both are optional, don't want either of those, skip them and just clear the main boss.

or have meaningful time limits, with different bosses/objectives that will give you time extensions. if you're overgeared and super-skilled, just skip the time extension bosses and clear in 15 minutes.

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Something like old Toto-Rak?
You can choose between 3 ways to 3 bosses, but you can only kill 1 boss

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ialDevices.jpg

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

it was originally SUPPOSED to be a 4 man dungeon you did before Crystal Tower but per usual, that all changed.

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I've never seen that mentioned anywhere before. How do you know such a thing is true?

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Originally Posted by Zikh

Black Rock Depths and Maraudon in WoW were innovative and awesome. That was 10 years ago, back when developers didn't make games for the drooling masses.

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WoW did have a great dungeon/raid approach back in it's vanilla days. From Deadmines all the way through UBRS, for it's time, it really was great. I have my fair share of gripes with WoW these days, but I still give it credit where it deserves it. Mostly Vanilla/TBC days.