Mystic Knight Mage Tank

Just an idea for an MP resource management tank that uses cloth. Probably has a "magic dagger" or something as a weapon.

Example skills:
Lvl 1: Firey Thrust -Delivers 150 potency attack at cost of X mana.
Lvl 2: Enfrost - Regular attacks regen mana and deal X potency extra damage (less than Enfire)
Lvl 4: Ice Sickle - Delivers 120 potency attack and regens X mana. (combo to do 170 potency w/Firey Thrust)
Lvl 6: Enfire - Increase enmity and deal X potency extra damage at the cost of mana per second.
Lvl 8: Thunder Spikes - Whenever an enemy deals damage to you, they take X potency damage for over X seconds and increases armour by X. (mana)
Lvl 12: Chain Lightning - Increases enmity and applies a low-damage DoT (mana)
Lvl 15: Fireball - Deals ranged 130 potency damage and increases enmity (mana)
Lvl 18: Shock - Deals X damage and stuns
Lvl 22: Thunderous Blade - Deliver 240 potency attack (combo with Ice Sickle) and applies low level dot, increases enmity
....etc

Not exactly a Mage, but giving a Tank something OTHER than TP to pull fuel from is greatly needed. I can see a Mystic Knight (totally a DoW not DoM) wearing Heavy Armor with more clothy looks, like Templar looking clothes (real life templar) Cloth over Chain/Plate. Though a Mystic Knight would most likely use Swords as the main series of weapons and possibly Shields, (easy pull from GLD, if you really don't want to pull from GLD, have some of GLD's metal Swords cross class with their Shields into Mystic Knight)

One handed Long Swords would be a good idea, and differently designed swords (different from the ones tha GLD uses) would work best. They'd be renamed xxxxxx's Arm like how Gladiator weapons are Gladiator arms. Though this basically is the Red Mage that others want. I don't particularly like the idea, but its the most likely to happen. Though if RDM is done like this I don't see Spell Fencer, Rune Knight, Mystic Knight coming out since they'd share similar concepts.

Don't need to rename the weapon type; there's already grimoires that only SCH can equip and other grimoires only SMN can equip.

As far as RDM goes it'd be more likely a healer off THM that somehow converts THM's attack power for healing mixed with debuffs.

I also think more people would want a 2nd job off GLD to be a dps rather than another tank. Several have suggested dark knight would work there, and SE looooooves their PLD/DRK lore.

Rune/Runic Knight in its variations would be the most likely magic tank and probably best to have it as a class of its own.

As for OP, "a tank in cloth" is gonna be squishy as hell. Would have to stick to tank armor. Their myth gear can look as cloth-like as SE wants long as it retains tank-level defenses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Don't need to rename the weapon type; there's already grimoires that only SCH can equip and other grimoires only SMN can equip.

---

Both are also Arcanist Grimoires. Both Thaumaturge and Conjurer use Staves and Rods. A Staff used by a Thaumaturge is a Thaumaturge Arm and a Staff used by a Conjurer is a Conjurer Arm. The other class cannot equip the other's Staff or Rod. Same can be done with this instance. Either open a few of GLD's Swords up or release a new set of Swords that the GLD won't be able to use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

As far as RDM goes it'd be more likely a healer off THM that somehow converts THM's attack power for healing mixed with debuffs.

---

RDM is more like the Arcanist in regards to history, being DPS with healing capabilities, though as stated to me many times, that kinda balance would kinda break the RDM. Majority of the designs have been exactly as the OP's version.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

I also think more people would want a 2nd job off GLD to be a dps rather than another tank. Several have suggested dark knight would work there, and SE looooooves their PLD/DRK lore.

Rune/Runic Knight in its variations would be the most likely magic tank and probably best to have it as a class of its own.

---

Well, it makes the most sense to have DRK and PLD stream off the same origin class as its two paths that shadow one another in almost all FF Lore. It would also be a reference to Cecil. Though nothing says they can't stream 3 or more similar Jobs off of one class. I would rather Mystic Knight be a job that pulls off of RDM as a Class. RDM loses out on being a job, but it would make hell of a lot of sense in the way that, as a Red Mage (Magic Swordsman) the Class devoted study of Magical arts in tandem to Sword Skills to create a new way to fight. Mystic Knight being a lost lore of the Red Mage skills taken to a further level, allowing them more access to stronger magicks that they couldn't master before (Red Mage to Red Wizard like ordeal)

This is only if we have to go the DoW Red Mage route and not the DoM spell caster route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

As for OP, "a tank in cloth" is gonna be squishy as hell. Would have to stick to tank armor. Their myth gear can look as cloth-like as SE wants long as it retains tank-level defenses.

---

I agree, like I said make it full armor that looks as if it were covered in cloth like templar armor.

Bard was 100% support with a harp and now they've been shoehorned into a DD role with a bow.
So what a class has been historically doesn't necessarily mean that's what they'll do with it now.

Monk shares a few concepts with Thief as well (backstab=bootshine, evasion=featherfoot) but I'm pretty sure they're going to find a way to put Thief in the game eventually.

I for one would absolutely love it if they thew RDM into the tanking role.

The OP looks like a great RDM tank idea. I'd welcome a DoM tank big time.

30 Thauma + 15 Glad with Lancer as third class. Thauma can already use a shield and 1hand so can be used as the main weapon set.

CC - Flurry, Convalescence, Flash, Provoke, B4B?


Lvl 30 Job Skill (little much but a lot needed to bring a mage up. Also needs numbers tweeks for balance)

Frost Fire Aura - Increase pdef to match mdef. Increase threat. 25% of DMG received applies to mana pool instead. Fire skills gain enemity rating. Frost skills increase mitigation.

Lvl 35

Lvl 40

Lvl 45

Lvl 50 - Mana Purge - Release all current mana stored within caster to increase health by the amount of mana purged. Increase damage reduction by 20% for duration. Lasts 10 seconds. (Yes similar to warrior thrill of battle with a boost but this would be the oh crap ability ala Holmgang and Hallowed Ground. Doesn't have the life saving effect of those 2 but potentially could be a 4k HP boost as well so shouldn't be as strong as those 2.)


Obviously would need a lot of tweaking but was something I was playing around with. With needing manager for threat and mitigation the casters mana management becomes very integral to the class because a 2k hit will cost 1500 HP and 500 mana against them draining their manager pool.

Wasn't gonna post it till I fleshed it out more but.... this thread caught my attention.

I like the idea of a magitank, as well as some of the ideas in this thread, but you need to come up with ways it'll differ from existing tanks in practice.

Using MP instead of TP, using cloth instead of plate? You're just switching some letters around, maybe just adding a simple mp regen mechanic. In the case of armour, if base def and mdef are the same for all tank classes, whats the point if only for flavour?

What I'm getting at is don't just change the flavour, change how its played. We really don't need another DMG reduction cooldown tank like PLD, alot of people still say WAR is too much like that now.

Now go be creative!

I'm looking forward to see what you can come up with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alwryn

*snip* I'm looking forward to see what you can come up with.

---

Actually, I think I've come up with a better "Magic Tank" idea that would fit with RDM really well. Use "Convert" as a tank ability.

- Convert: MP and HP switch places. Then you have abilities that regen mana, and the goal is to keep switching out your HP and MP. Combine that skill with...
- Refresh: Mana regen spell similar to FFXI RDM (if I'm not mistaken).
- Various "Shield" spells: These don't have to reduce damage now, they can just do damage + effect on being hit. Fire = Increased Enmity, Ice = Slow, Thunder = DoT.
- Enspells: Provide effects based on hitting. Fire = Enmity, Ice = Mana Regen

Equipment could be Heavy Chain w/Caster stats. I think I really like the idea of "Convert" though as a basis for the tank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spelley

- Convert: MP and HP switch places. Then you have abilities that regen mana, and the goal is to keep switching out your HP and MP.

---

All you're doing is creating an arbitrarily complex self-healing tank (you're equating mp with hp via convert and then increasing mp regen through other effects) that doesn't have the self-healing scale with incoming damage, which makes them an unbalanced tank (just consider WAR in 2.0: either self healing is designed around high incoming damage scenarios and is completely overpowered in normal/low damage scenarios or it's designed around normal incoming damage scenarios and is basically worthless any time damage gets high).

The only way that mp as a survivability resource would work as a balanced mechanism would be if a portion of incoming damage equivalent to the amount of damage other tanks mitigate with their stances (i.e. 20%) were shunted off to reduce mp while providing the class with some controllable and comparatively powerful form of mp regen that scales up effectively (e.g. Riot Blade that recovers % max mp) so as to render the "damage" done to their mp easily nullified (which negates the need for anyone to "heal" that damage). The problem with this, of course, is that you can't use MP as any kind of appreciable attack resource because you're converting it into a survivability resource; the closest you could get would be creating some CDs that consume mp to increase survivability for a short period because that's just trading a mitigation resource for mitigation (imagine an ability that consumes hp to provide you with an absorb shield; same basic idea). If you try to do it in any other way, all kinds of problems arise.

Tanking mechanisms have to scale with incoming damage, and those effects have to actually reduce external support requirements appropriately without disproportionate cost to the tank itself. Any tanking system has to keep that in mind when you're coming up with the mechanism as well as the access/implementation.

I have this posted in another thread but I think this fits well here:

This doesn't really fit in 100% with this idea of an evasion tank but another good tank mechanism that would avoid all of this RNG that everyone is so worried about, is to give an on command ability to produce a shield similar to how stoneskin/aloq works now. The amount would obviously have to be tweaked so that it fits in terms of mitigation with the other tanks, but then you would have a brand new mechanic that allows PLD and WAR to remain in their own niches (PLD flat mitigation, WAR hp/heals).

This shield type mechanic could for example be a magic tank where they put up small shields on themselves built into their tanking stance. This shields could on regular attacks mitigate a flat damage percent for each shield. To keep this fair, the shields could stack up to a maximum of 5 and only allow 1 shield be used at a time for normal attacks. Then as a greater mitigation mechanism (like hallowed ground/holm) the character could expend all of their shields at once to create one large shield that absorbs for the total of all of the shields x 2 on a large cooldown.

Implementing a tank that uses these shields would require some management of skills and cooldowns similar to how WAR plays, however it could be very easily balanced.

These are just very rough ideas, but I think it would be a neat, active way to include a new tank without making anything overpowered/underpowered.

Simple change.

Convert: 20% of damage taken is subtracted from MP instead of Health.
Wizard Strike: 3rd part of enmity combo that grants a high-potency Refresh buff on the player.

How about something a bit simpler Spelley. For instance how about something along a residual or sustained damage focus. For example.

Mystic Ward - Stance - Reduce damage dealt by 20%, increases Enmity, increases healing received by 25% every time you receive non DoT damage for 5 seconds to a maximum of 100%. Duration is reset when damage is received.

Runic Ward - Ability - Increases Parry by 60% for 30 seconds, any attack that is parried the negated portion will restore MP up to 10% of your Maximum MP.

Close Quarters - Ability - Increases Parry by 30% for 10 seconds, any attack that is parried will be negated and you will recover HP for the amount that would normally be negated up to 20% of your maximum HP.

Aspected Affinity - Ability - For 30 seconds, each time your hit with an elemental attack (Physical or Magical) your resistance to that element grows greatly and gives you a charge. You can stack up to 3 charges, resistances built up will reset when hit with a different element.

Aspected Sabotage - Ability - Use built up charges in order to lower an enemies physical and magical defenses for 20 seconds, each charge consumed will lower each by 10%.

Aspected Barrier - Ability - Consume 1 charge to increase your party's resistances to all elements for 15 seconds by 20%.

Greater Good - Ability - Sacrifice 30% of your MP to restore 20% of a targeted Ally.

So by far it wouldn't be as easy to handle as a WAR or PLD, but it's strengths and abilities play directly in it's ability to tank. I know some are probably thinking, "but if they're OT they wouldn't quite be as effective as a PLD or WAR OT" annnd that's true to a point, but as with most activities there are always points where one job will be stronger or weaker in a given situation. Like where most of PLD's and WAR's defensive abilities are nearly useless OT save when unavoidable AoE's come into play, but in such a situation MTK/SORC would at least be able to occasionally throw out some support utilities during the fight where a PLD or WAR wouldn't.

Came up with a RDM build off of a new class (fencer) a while back and posted on another thread, could be tweaked for tank role, though I'd much prefer it as DPS (hybrid even, if they will exist in the future) =p

Class: Fencer (sword; Rapier, possibly off hand parry dagger [Main Gauche])
Job: Red Mage (DPS, THM and CNJ)

Actions: Skills like FFXIII's Aquastrike, Sparkstrike, etc. Combo skills like Monk and Dragoon, say Flamestrike -> Galestrike -> Sparkstrike (additional effects and potencies are debatable, not gonna say any). And various self buffs I guess, possibly enfeeble spells like Paralyze (unlikely).

Cross Class: Fire (no astral buff), Thunder, Surecast, and Swiftcast from THM. Cure, Stoneskin, Stone (no gravity/weight effect) or Aero, and Raise from CNJ.

Job Actions (in no particular order):
Dualcast - Next spell is cast twice. 1 minute recast.
Enspell - Adds additional damage per auto-attack (like Sword Oath). Element changes with last combo action used (sparkstrike = thunder, etc.). Takes MP per tick like Bard songs.
Saboteur - Next Damage over time lasts X amount of seconds longer (whatever's reasonable). 2 minute recast.
Aquaveil - 10% reduction to damage taken, 10 second duration (or burns MP and can't be used while Enspell is up, think Fists of Earth/Fire/Wind. Otherwise 2 minute recast).
Elementa - Spell, burns all MP (or all remaining, like Flare). High damage, non GCD, 3-5 minute recast.

The Red Mage would be cool but how about something more out of the box. Blue Mage!

Their design from FFXI meshes well with the Ul'dah aesthetic and they were supposedly capable tanks within FFXI (though people mostly played them as DPS). They could be designed as a magic support off-tank, using the base Gladiator skills for the majority of their tanking repertoire which is then supplemented with Blue Magic to deal/mitigate damage and support the party.

The lore would be interesting as it'd involve the player going out and hunting down monsters in order to gain their abilities. We could have iconic monster spells like White Wind, Matra Magic, Bad Breath etc. to help with the role.

Would be an interesting one, no?

I only read up to a certain point but as far as using mp as a resource to tanking you can simply have abilities that take a percentage of damage from mp and use other skills that regenerate it while still having enmity skills that use mp. It would force you to balance survivability with holding hate from the party.