Need SMN/SCH Advice

So this is my first magic class that I will be trying to level and use and I need some advice.

I want to be able to use SMN and SCH, so how should I distribute my stats?

I heard that a 50/50 hybrid is good. I have tried googling and have seen some archaic stuff about it back from Sept 2013 that seemed mostly speculation. I'm hoping some experts can help me out lol.

Also, is it okay to try and play as both jobs or will it prevent me (or greatly affect me) from doing Binding Coil and etc.

If you want to minmax your potential on either class, you should be keeping yourself busy with those keeper hymns... :p But if it comes down to it, I'd probably rather play SCH with 30 INT and not vice versa. A hybrid of 15/15 could work, though. (Me, I am full-time specced to 30 MND and rarely play SMN as I am gimping myself, but yeah).

Unless you have tons of keeper hymns or overgear the fights and can heal them with 30 INT (as you'd still get the job done but if you were SMN'ing it up with MND, your DPS would be way less than what it could be), I wouldn't play both in serious content. Up to you though. Personally I would like to play on the SMN more as well, but as I am needed on a healer full-time and because I love the SCH even more, I went the BLM-route for a caster DD, whenever I feel like playing on a DD.

It is ok to play both jobs, and you could play either through all current content without issues even if you had put all your points in "wrong" stat. However, SCH and SMN don't share gear so you'll have to gear them separately. I would recommend focusing your mythology tomes and coil gear on one of them first to get it as close to item level 90 as possible while gearing the other with CT gear, extreme drops, darklight and coil free lots.

If you really play both equally you can put 15 points to INT and 15 to MND. But if you mainly play one, just put them all in INT or MND depending on which job you play. Remember you can also change your stat allocation with the GC item.

The 50/50 hybrid is probably the most versatile. Building pure INT however does give a higher return on dps than pure MND on healing/second, so there is an opinion to use INT among the min/max community or to switch using hymns. A pure INT build might have problems more healing coil t5 though, especially when handling death sentences, but it is far from impossible. Whether you skew yourself in one direction or leave the path open, your greatest bonuses still come from gear.

Also, as Taika mentioned, you will have to gear the two classes separately. This means 2 i90 weapons and myth sets. For better or worse, both SCH and SMN have their BiS using more myth gear rather than the Allagan or Primal drops, so it is just a matter of time and perseverance to get your equipment.

Playing both classes is very possible in coil. Unfortunately, your coil group may still ask you to specialize and focus on one role initially when running the dungeon (they probably will not ask you to change attributes unless you're skewed). Don't be too insulted though as that has to do with player availability/class rather than game mechanics and attributes. You may switch places with another player if they want to play as a healer/dps, but that's up to you to arrange. For the most part, I haven't had any players ask me about my attributes spec in coil or dungeons/raids as any sort of screening process.

When I started the game, I was aiming to become a summoner, then, I got mad cause e DF tooked so long and it was hard for me to get better gear, so i became a scholar, I puted all my points on mind and life was better now ,my smn is better geared now but I'll stay with my 30 mind, if i need to dps, ill use a hymn

Full INT. SCH healing has a lot of damage prevention which isn't based on MND. Lustrate is based on max HP of target. So losing 30 MND on SCH isn't as bad as losing 30 INT on SMN

Thanks for the diversity of replies and reasoning behind them!

Gear both classes does seem a pain, but I think I'll focus more on SCH.
As for stat allocation information, thanks a ton! You guys helped a lot!!! ^^

I don't know how into Grand Company Seal farming you are... But there several achievements I am working on at the moment that cause me to acquire large numbers of seals. I have taken to spending my seals on the re-speccing tomes. They are 10k each and you may carry as many as you would like at any given time. Any green or pink gear you get can be turned into seals, There are provision and supply runs that reward seals (+50% for HQ), and there are GC Leves. (aside from fates). I literally I have a stack of 20+ in my retainer right now! If someone in my FC needs a SMN for coils instead of a SCH, I just pop two of those bad boys out and BAM! I'm a source of ultimate destruction! When I am done, I swap back to SCH.

You dont need 30 mind on sch. At all. My raid sch doesnt use it and he's just fine on t5. He uses piety. I healed Ifrit Ex as sch with no mind OR piety (have it in INT 'cause I like to use smn as well). I NEVER ran into any moments where i was low on heals or mp, even with hard casting res 2 people while still havin to heal tanks. And that was with a PUG.

You have 3 lustrates every 60 sec( or 6 every 120 to be used back to back to back etc if u save em), you have shields on top of being able to EmPhys with Eos, or have Eos heal while you cast something like E4E or Virus or Adlo on tanks. In Ifrit Ex b4 I have to move between 3rd and 4th ifrit for charges I have eos pop a heal or two on tank while he takes the quick suppurations(and im already at the back by then while eos goes to middle). Eos got hit by a charge as I heeled it but took it like a champ and got sustained right after no problem. Hell 1 charge actually does very little dmg to eos.

Put it in int if u like smn. You'll be just fine on sch.

I currently run with 13 int/ 13 mnd/ 4 pei I'm a Hybrid SMN/SCH and I do fairly well for myself. The extra Pei helps with my MP consumption, though I may respec for 15/15 since I've learned better rotation control and don't burn my MP as often as I used to.

Scholars are all about those critical heals. 30 MND will give you no increased critical heal chances. You'll have enough MND from gear to get you through everything. Just go with 30 INT. This is coming from someone who specced into 30 MND. I kinda wish I hadn't. Though 30 INT isn't likely to do all that much either.

I made two chars a sch and smn. I love both but i can't stand switching back and forth and spending hymns. I wouldn't advice you to spend 15/15 if you raid group are serious with end game.

Yes, level an alt for SMN. Easy peasy crossclass requirements, you can get away with thm 26 and arc 4 without any major loss. Levelling first job on a character is even more a joke than it was before roulettes. You'll get 2x the opportunities of whatever content is currently on weekly limits: double the myth/ct/coil now, double turns 6-9/new tomes after 2.2. I did this and don't regret it in the slightest.

You also get the opportunity to choose a race with highest INT; I play a roegadyn sea wolf sch and an elezen wildwood SMN. So 35 int difference between my roegadyn with MND+30 and what my SMN would be at for INT if I played it on the same character.

Also double the rested xp, leves, map allowances, etc.

Also consider that Yoshi P said he eventually wants all classes to branch off like acn does and it's very possible some or all will have the same dilemma acn currently has.

You'll likely see the impact 15 (or 30) MND has on heals before you will if you dumped them into INT. I can unequip 2-3 pieces of gear before I actually see a definite change in healing out put and I can go and unequip 3-4 pieces before I see a real change in damage numbers. This is in CT gear which has pieces with exactly 15 MND/INT, ilvl 90 accessories + belt and upgraded relics. Anyone saying that you have to dump those points anywhere to be successful is an extreme min/maxer as those points could be left unspent and not affect a thing far as your success/fail rate.

Knowing a fight and having the strongest weapon available > 30 points spent anywhere. Those 30 points might have an impact on say a full raid nights combat log but not for a singular fight on any given raid night. Also consider the delta on highs and lows for any given spell and really the impact of those 30 points are even harder to track.

If you want proof of any of this just take your highest geared character and smack something, record the numbers and unequip a piece of gear, repeat the process and rinse and repeat until you see a real change in numbers. You'll be pretty surprised how much in stats it takes to see a change in either direction, I know I was.

well its rare that a smn runs out of mp, even energy drain is unusefull and sch has almost unlimited mp so...

Another vote for +30 INT.

SCH heals are still perfectly fine with -30 MND at endgame.
(will it make a difference? Yes... but much less than -30 INT on BLM. You'll still be able to Physick for ~1k HP with BIS gear)

Honestly the only time I really wish I had more +MND on my SCH is when I'm in Cleric Stance... :p

I have the same dilemma, but i can't make up mind. I just hope someday SMN and SCH won't share the same attribute points ...

I got my points on INT but only because I like to play SMN more, although my Scholar is usually the one role that has more demand xD. So far, I had no problems with the -30 Mind, like the others said, it's just a min/max thing which can help in endgame but for a Scholar it's not a big deal, considering Sacred Soil, Lustrate, Bane, Energy Drain, Aetherflow, DoTs, most Fairy buffs, Virus, Eye for an Eye all don't use Mind - which is basically 3/4 of your skillset.

You might want to spec according to your usage of those 2 classes. Could be 15/15 or 20/10 or even other stats like piety. Free stats are just there for a tiny bit of customization.

sorry i'm skipping the posts, did not read em.

In order to min max you will have to chose one, otherwise 15/15 is a good choice. I my opinion, mind is more critical for SCH to perform than INT for SMN to perform. If you don't want to go either way Piety could serve both classes. I used to be in the same dilema as you and decided to drop SMN in favor of BLM and use SCH to heal. That solved my problem. Full MND.

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Originally Posted by Kiyouma

So this is my first magic class that I will be trying to level and use and I need some advice.

I want to be able to use SMN and SCH, so how should I distribute my stats?

I heard that a 50/50 hybrid is good. I have tried googling and have seen some archaic stuff about it back from Sept 2013 that seemed mostly speculation. I'm hoping some experts can help me out lol.

Also, is it okay to try and play as both jobs or will it prevent me (or greatly affect me) from doing Binding Coil and etc.

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Long as you realize its for you and not the pets. Pets go by skill level of regular skills which are automatically capped within this version of FF Online.

Couldn't you go 30 int then just cross class cleric stance on sch? Still learning this myself.

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Originally Posted by EvilHippie

Couldn't you go 30 int then just cross class cleric stance on sch? Still learning this myself.

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You can, but (i) you get a damage buff and healing debuff from using Cleric stance (ii) You will still have considerably less MND after the swap due to equipment loadouts after i70.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EvilHippie

Couldn't you go 30 int then just cross class cleric stance on sch? Still learning this myself.

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INT/MND switch with cleric stance. Putting your points into int and using cleric stance would be lower damage than the same player having 30 in mnd using it.

I decided for myself to level a SCH alt. Its not only stat allocation, but also different HUD (as a DPS i like to minimize party list and put it into a corner), Coil drops etc.

put Cleric stance on while healing. take it off while dps ' in :)

Cleric stance reduces healing spells power by 20% - it wouldn't help. Would it?

Cleric stance is always worse, unless maybe if you are around ilvl 50 and have both int and mnd stats on equipment, but as for when you're nearing ilvl 90 using CS and healing is bad. I'm SMN and obviously 30 Int, and when I happen to heal dungeons, I heal 800~ with physic and with CS I heal around 400, so no. If you had int gear, then it might be better not with much I guess, but haven't tried.

As long as you have ilvl 90 weapon on the sch, your heals are high enough for anything your rest of the gear is good for.

So yeah, if you like dps'ing as smn and healing as sch, the I'd suggest getting ilvl 90 weapons on both and gear the one you like more first(with myths, coil gear are pretty easy to get for both since you can get i.e healing gloves from T1(correct if it's not T1) and then on T4 you could get the casting breeches or belt for exanple) and going full int, if you intend to dps fights that has really high dps check (snakes on twin for example)