Just realized - if you're a casual gamer, ideally....

An MMORPG is not for you.
This isn't to troll, even though it seems it, it just struck me -
if I was a casual gamer, why the hell would I play a game that has so
much content (not exactly talking about XIV here guys) and only have say
a few hours (1-10) a week to play it? Here's the math;

sub free on avg is about $13 bucks a month;
well if you're only playing lets say 2-8 (median 4) hours a week,
so 16 hours a month and you're paying $0.81 for each hour you play.
Compared to MMO "hardcore" and "whatever the hell mediumcore is"
who will play a given 10-25 hours a week (median 17ish hours)
they're paying $0.19 cents for every hour.

Not only that (voodoo math), but casual gamers will most likely only
complete about 25%-40% of the actually game.

So you pay (lets say avg price for game is $55) for the game,
then casual gamers play for lets say 2-3 years max (2.5) $390
and the hardcore gamers will play for 5-7 years (6; given steady content flow) $936
so it ends up the hardcore gamers actually get what they paid for all in all.
Granted, $936's....is a freakin' lot. But given a good, continuously moving game,
I could see it being worth it. Not so much almost $400 in subs just to finish under a
quater of the game.

I just do not see why if you did not have adequate enough time to
play through 'time sinks' as people like to call challenging and difficult MMO's
would waste their time and money on a MMO.
This all leads to there should be more emphasis on hardcore content
(60%/40% at most, hardcore being higher #) because they will
A.) most likely finish most if not all content available
B.) will get the most bang for their buck
C.) will give the company the most money in return.


Well....I guess this is kinda trolling.
But, when I think of an MMO, I tend to think of the words "difficult, challenging, rewarding, in depth, etc".

Not "easy, quick, vapid, unchallenged, etc"



Bombs away.
-mini rant done-

Oh, and I don't hate casual players lol.
I just don't think that FFXIV should be most concerned with them.
If it was mostly casual, people would burn through content and be bored with the game.

For the sake of all the casuals, how rude of you to imply this...

In actual terms a MMO is probably more suited to a "Casual" gamer thank you think.

A new game runs about 60 bucks, and provides you about 30~ish hours of gameplay "If your lucky these days".

A MMO provides you with hundreds of hours of content that you do at your leisure, while also having more content if you find yourself with some extra spare time. The catch is the subscription but a fully running MMO gives you much more "Bang for your buck" than a standard video game can provide.

MMO's are a perfect avenue for casual gamers to get into. It's not about being able to do all the content the game has to offer, it's about doing all the content that the game offers you and your play-style. A balanced MMO can catter well to both crowds.

First, MMOs offer a persistent world and opportunity to play with and/or compete against friends, which is not offered at all by single player games and somewhat limited in other multiplayer games.

Second, a monthly subscription to an MMO is still cheaper than any other sort of gaming in terms of play hours. If you haven't played games lately, only the top notch can boast over 30 hours of non-competitive-multiplayer entertainment. Most are in the single digits or teens.

Third, maybe I don't like or care about that other 60-75% of the content because it bores me. The content that I do get to enjoy is enough to justify spending my dirty casual gaming peasant money.

[M]any
[M]en
[O]nline
[R]ole
[P]laying
[G]irls

I play MMORPG's because it makes me feel social.

I agree that MMOs where not really for casual back in the day... It was WoW which brought the casual base into the mmo world. Back in EQ and FFXI hardcore players outnumbered casuals easily 4:1, now I would say it is probably 30:1 casual to hardcore, complete 180 of what the genre was.

WoW changed the genre, they seen a whole market not touched by the genre and went for it and succeeded in pulling them in. Brilliant strategy which paid off in the 10s of billions of US$, and grew the whole mmo genre in terms of global population almost 5 fold.

I still say 80% of the mmo population hates mmos I mean really despises them if you think what the definition of a mmo was back prewow, but since they are the overwhelming majority their playstyle is forced on everyone and due to their numbers... WoW became the new standard. The days of the true hardcore mmo is long gone never to be seen again.

Ideally a casual gamer should not be playing a mmo, a consul game more fits the playstyle. Can play when ever you want, not forced to play with others which takes time, no one forcing you to be a certain way, things are made to more give you a sense of accomplishment with much less work, less/no grind, no competition. The issue is the casuals are playing mmos, and nothing anyone can do will stop it now. A mmo honestly is everything that most casuals hate, and why you see so much tension in these forums between the 2 opposing sides. The people who want a old school mmo experiance, and the causals who want the mmo to be more like a massive multiplayer online consul game.

Here is some additional math

Tickets to a two hour movie (including previews): $21.00 Hourly value: $10.50

A console game with 70 hours of reported game play: $59.99 Hourly value: $0.85

Grabbing a few beers at the bar for three hours (assume a responsible 1 per hour): $7.50 Hourly value $2.50

Hitting up Disney for a day at which you stay for 8 hours: $52.19 Hourly value $6.52

MMOs are leaning more toward the casual market these days for a reason. The hay-day of games like EQ and Pre-Abyssea XI are long gone. May they rest in peace.

P.S. Casual =/= "easy, quick, vapid, unchallenged, etc"

All casual means is they aren't spending their entire life in front of their computer screen.

Casual players make it to end game in MMOs, meaning they experience just as much content. It just takes them longer than the guy who grinds it all out in a month.

Ultima Online was extremly casual friendly aside from it's launch before they split the world into full PVP and Non-PvP zones. but that was not a extremly long period of time either.

UO was one of the first MMO's to hit big far earlier before FFXI or WoW. I think people are being blinded with nostalgia goggles, hell even XI in it's later years was fairly friendly to new players.

This is just wrong. There's no need to explain myself.

MMO's are NOT for the text book casual gamer (30min to 2hr~ playtime). Even if you can do stuff in-game with that time, at some point the community will have higher demands of you.
MMO casual != console casual. I consider MMO casual 2 - 5 hrs playtime, generally (depends on weekday & weekend player habits), but that's me.

Yoshida seems to be for: weekends = hardcore & weekdays = casual. There's no doubt that there will be higher demand content at some point. Because of this, the community will place demands on players & those who can not meet them will be excluded or won't progress nearly as fast (these people will complain).

These days though, all games are being dumbed down to the casual level, so who knows. Soon we'll be seeing fart jokes in-game.

MMO and gamefly which is less than 30 dollars a month sounds fine to me. I'm more worried about money when I go out with my friends for a few drinks and other legit activity's ;).

Also I notice MMO company's offer a six month game pass where you can save a few bucks by paying up front(maybe around ten dollars fifteen at most). So if you think about it, it's really not that expensive.

No offense, but that post or "rant?" you just gave reminded me of a money management class. You go to the class and they lecture you how buying a soda and a candy bar from the gas station a day is preventing you from buying a new car or paying off your electric bill. You can add all those numbers together and it can look scary at the end, but nobody seems to care afterwards as long as they are enjoying themselves as a human.

Anyways, sorry if my grammar is a little messy, but its late and have a good night everyone :).

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

Soon we'll be seeing fart jokes in-game.

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Too late.

Opps thought you meant in "a" game, though I would do jokes ingame but I might get banned... considering the GM's are employees of Sqaure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alfortis

Also I notice MMO company's offer a six month game pass where you can save a few bucks by paying up front(maybe around ten dollars fifteen at most). So if you think about it, it's really not that expensive.

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MMO pricing is VERY casual. No one can argue that.

Words can't describe my thoughts on this topic.

Thankfully this video can

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

MMO pricing is VERY casual. No one can argue that.

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If it was hardcore the hardcore wouldn't be able to afford it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Words can't describe my thoughts on this topic.

Thankfully this video can

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Haha I actually found that funny.
(no sarcasm)

And the numbers added up were just years and subs.
People have paid for it before, but yeah.
I guess i'm just accustomed to pre-WoW mmo's - sad day.
I tried to play WoW, i really did. But man that game is a pos.
I do like Blizzard though. They know how to make games.
Even if I don't like them. lol.

Behests' should have just been called Zerg Rushes at 'launch'.

Rambling now? I believe so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tezz_Xivectro

MMO's are NOT for the text book casual gamer (30min to 2hr~ playtime). Even if you can do stuff in-game with that time, at some point the community will have higher demands of you.
MMO casual != console casual. I consider MMO casual 2 - 5 hrs playtime, generally (depends on weekday & weekend player habits), but that's me.

Yoshida seems to be for: weekends = hardcore & weekdays = casual. There's no doubt that there will be higher demand content at some point. Because of this, the community will place demands on players & those who can not meet them will be excluded or won't progress nearly as fast (these people will complain).

These days though, all games are being dumbed down to the casual level, so who knows. Soon we'll be seeing fart jokes in-game.

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This is what I wanted to say....but it didn't come out as elegant lol.

I'd agree with you if this was back in the EQ days. To be honest now a days if you want to get a healthy player base in an mmorpg you'll want to be more casual then hardcore.

My question to all hardcore.
Where do you find time to play 4+ weekdays?
If you are student you have school, extramural activity, sport, homework, study, etc...
If you are an adult you work 9-5 weekdays.
If you are a parent or in a relationship it event worst.
You also have to spend time with family, gf, friends and interact with the world.

So who are you people that can manage 4+ weekday?
I guess you must be jobless or F students or have no life.

I am sorry, I love my mmo but I have to manage my time well.
I have a mission and a goal in life not in mmo.

Quote:

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I consider MMO casual 2 - 5 hrs playtime, generally (depends on weekday & weekend player habits), but that's me.

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5 hours? That's a sicko in my playbook already. But that's me.

like people say, its all about the journey. who cares if it takes u 1 month to do everything or 1 year. MMOs shouldn't discriminate against a player because at the end of the day, MMOs are about experiencing a fantasy world with friends and people they meet online.

also, casual != easy and hardcore != hard. its all about accessibility

So many wrong assumptions in the OP. But hey, that's what the internet is for :)

MMORPG = Multi-massive online role playing game.

It has no connotations of hardcore from the word itself. Games like EQ gave it a connotation of hardcore. It literally means a bunch of people play an RPG together.

As for casual, it means accessible and that you don't have to dedicate large amounts of time to the game to make progress. Sure in the long run you do. But you don't have to sit down for more than an hour to see progress happen.

I consider myself casual although I play video games for 4+ hours on days I can manage to even play games >.>

Stop being elitist. Stop thinking MMORPG = hardcore. Stop thinking casual = bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Ideally a casual gamer should not be playing a mmo, a consul game more fits the playstyle. Can play when ever you want, not forced to play with others which takes time, no one forcing you to be a certain way, things are made to more give you a sense of accomplishment with much less work, less/no grind, no competition. The issue is the casuals are playing mmos, and nothing anyone can do will stop it now. A mmo honestly is everything that most casuals hate, and why you see so much tension in these forums between the 2 opposing sides. The people who want a old school mmo experiance, and the causals who want the mmo to be more like a massive multiplayer online consul game.

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how 100% wrong lol
my dear you really need to get out more. alot more.

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Originally Posted by VeranRamaden

if I was a casual gamer, why the hell would I play a game that has so
much content (not exactly talking about XIV here guys) and only have say
a few hours (1-10) a week to play it?

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Because casual gamers don't have to play all the content. It's not necessary for them. They like the wide range of options and massive content even if they'll never see most it. It's about the journey.

Unfortunately, the journey isn't particularly fun for most people (casual or otherwise) at the moment.

Every time i read something like this, think we should rename genre in MMORPE = Multi-massive online role playing elitism.

I'm not a casual gamer, but to assume because a person does not have as much time as your self or what you title as "hardcore gamer" is only selfish, and makes you look just that. There is an ever growing real world where people have duties and responsibilities, and just because they don't have a good amount of time doesn't mean they can't play a game.

Whats the big deal? SE planning to add casual stuff for casual players and hardcore stuff for hardcore players...
Also times are changing MMORPG was never said it's for hardcore, it just means

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

MMORPG = Multi-massive online role playing game.

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.

Why can't you guys just wait and see what SE delivers to the players first before making all these assumptions that it's going to suck, or it's going to be casual players stuff only, they already said they have to work on the foundation of the battle system in order to add more contents... If you can't stand it being casual right now, or some stuff being called something you don't agree on the naming (ex: Raid) you can always just go play another game that fits your needs.... Don't have to tell everyone else to not play the game because their play style is not same as you.

I'm casual and I'm having fun. Your argument is invalid =)

The casual thing isn't about playtime or actually getting the whole game done... it's simply a way to attract the game to more players, so SE is getting more money :O
If a casual player who only plays a few hours each week, is paying the whole 13$ fee, SE would be stupid to lose all those casual gamers.

They're just trying to find a middle path and a good balance so both player base can actually enjoy the game. Nothing wrong with that. They won't get around of adding hardcore AND casual gamer content though. So just be patient and wait until it's getting added.

I'm more of a mixture of a casual and a hardcore gamer. Under the week Mo-Thu I can only play a few hours each day. On most of the weekends it's more than that of course.. and maybe even w/o sleep (omg RL sux XD).
Well.. we'll see where SE leads us to :)

P.S.: Blue Mage pwetty prz ;_;

Casual player everywere spend much more money. Look at facebook games.
In MMO casual player just spend less time.

Oh lord.

The people actually playing the game deserve to be the ones the game focuses around.

To repeat again and again to try to have some people understand it, casual means 'time available to play', why some people keep on thinking that casual equals easy mode?
As a good example, CoP missions (pre cap removal) were casual friendly (did not take hours and hours just for one mission for an organized group of friends) and hardcore due to the high difficulty of some of the fights. This is exactly the type of content that can cater to both casual and hardcore!
But nooooo, some unskilled player just cried that CoP was too hard and it got nerfed... In my opinion, a MMO should set differences in terms of good and bad gamer, not casual vs hardcore which usually ends up (for the wrong reasons I might add) being either 'easy mode' vs 'time sink'. Ideally, none of the laters should apply in a MMOs that could cater to both casual and hardcore.
About my own experience, I am casual (and also plan to play for more than 2-3 years >.>) and the 'easy mode' direction FFXIV is taking does not please me. On top of that, I was kind of happy to 'struggle' the rank46 mission. It took me a few attemps and I was happy to not just beat it by spamming 1,1,1,WS,cure rince and repeat. It could have been even harder that I would still have enjoyed because I finally was facing some 'challenge'.

Zynga: Creators of farmville are speculated to hit the open market soon at the value of over 20billion dollars. making them the most expensive video game company in the world, much larger than even Activision Blizzard.

That is the sad state of video games. So saying that they don't spend money...well...

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Originally Posted by Visch

Oh lord.

The people actually paying for the game deserve to be the ones the game focuses around.

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There you go, now you got it right.

Actually "hardcore players" are the customers no MMO company *really* wants.
They burn through content far too fast, which means new content has to be
developed before the majority of players even had a chance to fully experience
the old one. So the top 10% layer of hardcores may well "consume" just as many
development resources as the remaining 90%. Which is not really desirable,
because the remaining 90% of your customers will still judge your game according
to the content they are actually able to experience - which means that your
top-end-content is basically wasted in 9 out of 10 customers.

Even though I made up the numbers - did I make myself understood?;)

If its a mmo game that they end up enjoying then its a no brainer that they should play it regardless of how slow progress or how little time they can put into the game compared to anyone else, only an indivudual can tell themselfs if a mmo is for them or not.

I wasn't aware you to pass a hardcore test to be allowed to play MMOs. How silly of me! >.>

OP you ARE trolling. Don't think otherwise. How dare you even imply you have an inkling on how people want to to spend their time and money on their entertainment?

EDIT: As a casual gamer I play for the virtual world aspect. I LOVE the idea of being in a fantasy realm with other people and being able to interact in it. The type of interaction I enjoy doesn't even TOUCH the hardcore gamers, stuff like crafting, housing, exploration and chatting. I do not go on the forums DEMANDING crap like you people love to be doing all the time because it's a lot nicer to SUGGEST things instead, I'm just happy I get a portion of the game available to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Zynga: Creators of farmville are speculated to hit the open market soon at the value of over 20billion dollars. making them the most expensive video game company in the world, much larger than even Activision Blizzard.

That is the sad state of video games. So saying that they don't spend money...well...

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I fail to see how this is sad. A company managed to get to a new public that was being mostly ignored by everyone else in the market and got ****tons of money with a relatively simple product. I'd call that being smart.

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Originally Posted by fredtma

My question to all hardcore.
Where do you find time to play 4+ weekdays?
If you are student you have school, extramural activity, sport, homework, study, etc...
If you are an adult you work 9-5 weekdays.
If you are a parent or in a relationship it event worst.
You also have to spend time with family, gf, friends and interact with the world.

So who are you people that can manage 4+ weekday?
I guess you must be jobless or F students or have no life.

I am sorry, I love my mmo but I have to manage my time well.
I have a mission and a goal in life not in mmo.

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I'm one of these people. I work a 9-5 job, but in the evenings I play for an average of 6-7 hours a night. I leave my socializing with real life people for the weekends since I like to get home from a day of work to relax infront of the computer. I manage my time well so I am able to do this. However, I still call myself casual as I associate the word 'hardcore' with 'a$$hole' since the majority of people who say "I'm hardcore" I've encountered have been.

As for the casual market, I fully support casuals playing MMO's. It's totally not an issue of how much time you play for but how you use the time that you are in the game. I can't even imagine going back to a console game where you only interact with NPC's and get no chat, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to have to put up with distancing themselves from people in the same way.

But really, saying casuals shouldn't play MMO's is like saying that part time workers shouldn't work because they're not getting the full benefits of a full time employee. Or, to put it into a better perspective when paying for a service, that someone who goes to the gym only 3 times a week shouldn't have a membership because they're not getting the same value for money as someone who goes 6 times a week. Yes, they won't be as fit or as strong as the person who goes 6 times a week, but they'll be able to achieve their own personal goals within the same setting.

I can't even begin to imagine how dead this game would be if it were only the players who spend 5+ hours a day playing left.

And now I'm going to bring in the most important point about paying for a game regardless of how much it is... How much fun and enjoyment do you get from the game in the time that you play? I must say I see a LOT more of the 'hardcore' players bitching and moaning about the game, yet see mostly casuals saying they enjoy the game. This leads me to the conclusion that 'casuals' get just as much, if not more, enjoyment from the game over the month as the 'hardcore'.