Why not allow class changing during duty finder dungeons?

I understand why they don't want to let people change classes any time, but what if the party had to vote on it the same way they vote to abandon/kick?

When a tank or healer drops out, it would be very helpful if one of the party members were able to switch classes to replace that role, rather than have to hope someone queues for in-progress dungeons.

SE seems to always look at the downside. In this case

1. Vote function could be abused (until they patch in a fix)
2. People would get "forced" to play a class they don't even want to play
"You there, you have a lvl 50 PLD! Use it"

I'd also love to change the class in the dungeons though :/

+1 on this, it's annoying having to quit the instance, switch class then re-join the instance instead of just switching classes mid-instance.

This originally worked with pre-made parties, but with the addition of the Duty Finder it's considerably more difficult to make sure its used correctly.

Sadly the cons out-weight the pros. (It'd be nice if it would let you swap when you enter as a pre-mad party.


One example would be;

- Enter Dungeon
- Tank Swaps to WHM
- You're now without a tank

The problems with people abusing it are the only concern ESPECIALLY with a loot system similar to what we have know;

-Finish Boss
-Tank swap to DPS
-Tank rolls on DPS item as they've swapped classes
-DPS miss out on the roll because the tank gets it.

I guess it's because it might lead to situations similar to 1.0 where groups changed to optimal setups for every boss inside one dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Taika

I guess it's because it might lead to situations similar to 1.0 where groups changed to optimal setups for every boss inside one dungeon.

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Yeah, and wouldn't accept you in their party if you didn't have all the required jobs exped and geared.
Words cannot express how glad I was that dungeon job switching was gone in 2.0, and I see no reason to make it come back.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

The problems with people abusing it are the only concern ESPECIALLY with a loot system similar to what we have know;

-Finish Boss
-Tank swap to DPS
-Tank rolls on DPS item as they've swapped classes
-DPS miss out on the roll because the tank gets it.

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I guess that could be a pain in the ass, perhaps they could lock loot rolls to the class they entered the dungeon with.

I'm all for SE letting you change jobs if the party is not full (someone leaves/DCs or whatever), but letting you change it whenever you want to will lead exactly to what's below

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Originally Posted by Taika

I guess it's because it might lead to situations similar to 1.0 where groups changed to optimal setups for every boss inside one dungeon.

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They would have to re-tune dungeons because of that, like Wilan says, that's exactly what happened in 1.0.

to stop class stacking.

as example 1.23 Aurun Vale
from entrace until endboss: 1 Tank, 1 WHM, 1 BRD , 5 BLM
at the endboss: 1 Tank, 1 WHM, 1 BRD, 1 BLM, 4 MNK
the other jobs? where not desired
You have a MNk but no BLM or a BLM but no MNK? No invite for you.

Who did dungeon runs during old XIV know why they removed class change in instances

Actually I found switching jobs within dungeons fun. To an extent we can do it in turn 1 anyway, but it's so easy who'd bother?

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Originally Posted by Taika

I guess it's because it might lead to situations similar to 1.0 where groups changed to optimal setups for every boss inside one dungeon.

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Yeah and instead, people go for optimal setups PRIOR to entering the DF lol. All it allowed for in 1.x was to allow you to not only repair mid dungeon, but also trade stuff to stuff incase someone ran out food and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Wilan

Yeah, and wouldn't accept you in their party if you didn't have all the required jobs exped and geared.
Words cannot express how glad I was that dungeon job switching was gone in 2.0, and I see no reason to make it come back.

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You claim this...but I guess you must not be in a FC that asks you to switch classes at times, which means having x classes geared and experienced on, thus no different from 1.0.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Yeah and instead, people go for optimal setups PRIOR to entering the DF lol. All it allowed for in 1.x was to allow you to not only repair mid dungeon, but also trade stuff to stuff incase someone ran out food and whatnot.

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The abuse potential in cross-server trading is too high. Have nothing to do with class change restriction.

I will be that cat:

It worked in WoW. No tank showing up? Warrior changed from Battlestance to Tank stance and Dutyfinder was restarted. shortened waiting time A LOT.

I would also like to have an option for certain classes to choose if they want to tank or DD. A Warrior can dish out damage mighty fine when defiance is off. With CERTAIN encounters a Monk could tank. Some encounters don't need 2 tanks and shouldn't be enforced in Dutyfinder. Some content doesn't need tanks at all if DDs and healers are good.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

One example would be;

- Enter Dungeon
- Tank Swaps to WHM
- You're now without a tank

The problems with people abusing it are the only concern ESPECIALLY with a loot system similar to what we have know;

-Finish Boss
-Tank swap to DPS
-Tank rolls on DPS item as they've swapped classes
-DPS miss out on the roll because the tank gets it.

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For your first example: This wouldn't happen nearly as much as you think it might, if at all. In both WoW and Rift - MMOs where you can swap your specs mid-dungeon as long as you're not in combat - I've never run into any instance of this kind of griefing, ever. Far more often I've seen it come to good use when a tank or a healer has to drop party and someone switches specs/souls to fill the role instead of having to wait 30+ minutes for someone to queue.

And as for your last example... Just lock the roll to the role you were in when the boss died.

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Originally Posted by Felis

The abuse potential in cross-server trading is too high. Have nothing to do with class change restriction.

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Obvious solution, which other MMOs have already established, is to make trading available only to people on your server...

Implementable just like vote kick. But here person is not starting vote for an expulsion of another, but for class change of self.
Could not be initiated during fight/roll/etc.
So if someone wants to change class in the dungeon and party wants it too? Why not. Let him start the vote, pass it.
Someone wants to change class during roll phase? Not happening. During the fight? Not happening.

1 this make things way to easy a lil waiting never killed anyone 2 the loot ooo i need that f greed ill just use my alt and take it 3 CT be a hoot with this i can see ppl fighting left and right and last if you make someone mad a tank dps or healer maybe they will switch there class just to be rude end result you will have to kick vote and still wait

sounds annoying.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

sounds annoying.

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It worked great in 1.23.

You'd get halfway through Dzmael Darkhold and think "I'd prefer to play as Monk for this boss fight"
>Job Change Macro.
>Done.

Anything, I repeat ANYTHING in an MMO shoudl always be approached from one point of view before you implement it.

That is ask yourself a simple question: "How would someone abuse this?"

That answers everything you wish to know.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

Anything, I repeat ANYTHING in an MMO shoudl always be approached from one point of view before you implement it.

That is ask yourself a simple question: "How would someone abuse this?"

That answers everything you wish to know.

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Yeah, we totally abused being able to repair ourselves and other and switching classes if we felt like it. You were never "forced" to unless you were bad at dodging and got stuck on BLM.

brb queue as tank for nice quick DF pop, then change to main dps. You can't kick me, its harassment/troll.

...we all know how the ready check is going...

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

brb queue as tank for nice quick DF pop, then change to main dps. You can't kick me, its harassment/troll.

...we all know how the ready check is going...

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Prohibiting to change class with just a click could work this around.
Something like:
You want to change your class from BLM to PLD -> You press on PLD set button -> Your party members are getting vote "Class change". "John Doe wants to change his class from BLM to PLD. Accept?" "Yes"/"No".
Simple and easy. Vote can't be initiated during fight/roll/etc.

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Originally Posted by Karnyboy

That is ask yourself a simple question: "How would someone abuse this?"

That answers everything you wish to know.

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Why do you think FFXIV would be any different than any other MMO that allows spec-switching in dungeons?

It wouldn't be.

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Originally Posted by Metabug

good stuff

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This is a fantastic idea.

Or, have it that if a role is missing from the party, aka tank DCs, rage quits whatevs. That someone can change to the missing role. If the party is complete with the required roles of healer, DPS and tank than no change is possible.

But, if one of the roles drops out for whatever reason, one of the players can switch to a levelled job to replace the one that dropped.

Thanks for the replies! I hadn't considered the possibility of abuse. Knowing the way certain players of this game are, I could see people looking down on you for having "only" one class leveled, and expecting people to have multiple classes leveled for each dungeon. But I don't see how that applies to the random duty finder? That matches you up randomly, so people wouldn't be able to do that. I'm sure a solution could be found...Only allow it in the duty roulette, and only if the party # goes down to 3 people. Then the leader can choose either "Replenish ranks" or not, so that people can use their class change button (only to change to the class which is missing)

And to those saying that people could just enter as tank/healer and switch to DPS...did you not read the first post? I already suggested it should be done by vote to restrict potential abuse. It seems some people come in to topics like this with preconceived responses, like they are not willing to discuss potential changes.

It applies no matter what Finder you use. I've seen Roulette parties try to speed run Wanderers and fail miserably because the tank never speed ran before/healer doesn't have the output to keep the tank alive/DDs aren't geared enough to kill mobs fast enough... Who speed runs Duty Finder? Clearly some people think anyone can make a speed run out of any dungeon and not fail miserably in the process. If there's room for abuse, then people are going to abuse it. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And sadly, how often.

Class lock was implemented to prevent us from running 6blms+1healer+1tank and then changing later on in the dungeon to something else. I miss this feature from 1.xx, but it makes sense and added balance to the game.

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Originally Posted by KyroeFelix

Class lock was implemented to prevent us from running 6blms+1healer+1tank and then changing later on in the dungeon to something else. I miss this feature from 1.xx, but it makes sense and added balance to the game.

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In what 8 man encounter is this actually prevented? 99% of them don't have any trash. Even in Coil, when you go from boss to boss, you're shunted to some strange, positionless lobby room between each boss where you can change classes. It's a bit silly.