What can I do for double wicked wheel as a WHM?

I've gone as far as using both Eye for an Eye and Virus on Garuda and the MT still gets instagibbed. The only thing I can think of is to Swiftcast Stoneskin but I'm having trouble predicting the exact timing on WW.

That's all you need to do, the rest is on tank: they should use defensive buff for it. Of course you should also be casting cure 2 on tank so that they'll get healed right after.

Tank issue,
Rampart+Foresight > WW x2= 60-50%HP left on Pld.
Vengence+ToB > WW x2= 60-50%HP left on War.
This is not even counting sch buffs/virus/stoneskin etc. I've seen WW x2 hit my Pld for 0dmg with SS+Adlo+Sentinel+Rampart+Foresight.

Or dps not killing suprana fast enough and making garuda+suprana WW x2, 2times. Can still be livable saving sentinel/Hallowed on Pld, Or IB+foresight on War.

I've had tanks taking barely any damage. Solo healing with Selene.
I wasn't even using Virus... :P

During the WW portion all you can really do as a WHM is make sure to have eye for an eye or virus up (shouldn't need both but doesn't hurt), regen, and stoneskin. Until you get better at predicting WW I would recommend burning a little extra mana maintaining stoneskin on the tank for the period you think that WW is going to land. Make sure you are also precasting your heals during that portion as well so that when they land you have the best chance of picking up the tank immediately. You can also forgo swiftcasting stoneskin since you are going to be trying to maintain it a bit more and use your swiftcast on cure II. You have a few different things you can do to try and maximize your healing but ultimately this is also a tank mechanic and they need to be helping by using cd's properly. So if you feel you are utilizing everything at your disposal then it is probably something the tank isn't doing.

I'm a tank. That being said, is up to tanks to absorb that damage correctly. Its on you to mitigate damage at the right time, and spam cure 2 at the right times. Focus target Garuda. When you see her cast Friction, get ready. But you can not single handedly save a tank from this

Look for friction. Then comes the WW

But our OT takes Suparna first and I take Garuda and Chirada.

Honestly there isn't much difference.

Try keep a cool down but you won't always have one available.

Have a great healer that knows when spike damage is coming.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

.... but I'm having trouble predicting the exact timing on WW.

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Yup, you pretty much nailed it. You need to know when WW is coming, usually after friction or between friction. You stoneskin hardcast the tank, cast cure II right as WW hits.

Of course, if your tank did not pop any cooldown/buff, no healing in the world can save his ass. (ask him to pop 2 mitigation CD for each double WW phase)

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Originally Posted by Husband

But our OT takes Suparna first and I take Garuda and Chirada.

Honestly there isn't much difference.

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We do this as well, the DD just have to make sure Suparna dies fast enough so she doesn't swap with Garuda.

As said previously, if your MT dies on double WW, it's either he didn't use def CD properly, or he is way undergeared. I'd say with less than 6k2HP unbuffed, it's hard to say you won't ever be insta killed by double WW. As stated previously by another one : rempart + foresight (as a PLD) is what your MT must do. By the way, I personnally add flash since both garuda and sisters aren't immune to the blind debuff.
Friction => stop everything, cast rempart+foresight+flash

Do to the fact we dont always get tanks who know how to mitigate properly.
As a WHM I look for Suprana's friction, when I see it I will swift stone and Eye for Eye, and Virus garuda when she is back, and Bene or timed DS Cure 2 spam as soon as first big chunk is gone. Providing the tank geared well enough, this should carry a braindead tank through this phase.

I have one of my chat tabs popped out and dedicated exclusively to damage I take and mob abilities. This means that when any ability I know I need to start pre-curing for starts casting, I can start casting cure 2 even if I don't know the timing yet. This helps a lot on learning new fights because all you need to know is the ability that you need to mitigate. (It doesn't work for all things, but its good for most.) When I was learning this fight initially I watched that box like a hawk until I got the pattern down.

For a healer, you just have to learn when WW is coming up. Stoneskin/Adlo (if you ever go SCH) and time a Cure/2 to land right after it hits. That's really all you can do.

The tank does need to be using mitigation; no exceptions. If he's not doing his part, you need to get a new tank. Even i90 PLD can get killed by double WW + AA with no self mitigation.

As a WAR, I can get away with just using Vengeance if the heals are on it, and still have enough HP to not get killed by the AA. However, I like to stack Vengeance and Thrill of Battle at least, and Inner Beast if I can (sometimes the GDC just doesn't like me; the third mitigation isn't needed, but everything helps), and I can do that for every double WW.

Stoneskin the tank when Garuda starts using Slipstream and time your Cure2. Leave the mitigation to the tank.

It's really easy to reduce the damage but as a WHMl you can't take the place of your tank and use his defensives CD for him.
To be honnest i even saw (even in my FC one time) some people saying WAR can't tank garuda cause of this.The war was using 0 CD so OFC he got oneshot.It's the same with paladin sometimes aswell.
I did the 2* WW with my WAR full STR and it went perfectly fine if you're using your CD.It's the ONLY time you'll have to use it,other than that, she's doing ridiculous damage..
As a WHM the fight is really easy.To be honnest the only "challenging" thing to do is MAY BE healing and removing the wind dot when they take the feathers...

Thanks for all the advice everyone. ^^

I knew I needed help from tanks (although a few seemed to think it's the healer's job to carry them through ...) but I always assume things are my fault until proven otherwise; it gives me motivation to see where I can improve, so I was wondering if there was anything else I could do.

The timing on WW is still throwing me off because sometimes they WW before jump and sometimes after jump, but I'll keep an eye out for the pattern.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

The timing on WW is still throwing me off because sometimes they WW before jump and sometimes after jump, but I'll keep an eye out for the pattern.

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If you're going to win, it's after the jump. If you're going to lose, it's before the jump. Basically, you're in tank LB save territory if you're so far behind in DPS that the double WW precedes the jump.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

The timing on WW is still throwing me off because sometimes they WW before jump and sometimes after jump, but I'll keep an eye out for the pattern.

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This is not a problem :
=> Tank MUST pop his cd after the friction (he must use the ones which last a long time, aka rampart+foresight for PLD, so it lasts long enough to still be up if double WW occurs after a jump)
=> Ideally, you should use eye for an eye as soon as the MT is positionned to have more chances to apply the debuff to garuda+sister
=> Stoneskin isn't mandatory, it's just an extra safety (if the tank has at least 6k2HP, I'd say, and uses mitigation properly)
=> You can cast virus just after friction
=> The jump only depends on dps on chirada. If you want to make it more consistent (and are in a static group), you can have MT tanking chirada instead of suparna, so you'll have no more jumps (and this configuration is way easier for melee dps)
=> Ensure to keep your MT full life as soon as friction happens if you can't SS.

ESUNA the WINDBURN STACKS :D

:p

Seriously though, the first set of Wicked Wheels is reasonably easy to mitigate for both PLD and WAR with proper timing. As a WHM you can help a little by throwing up "Eye for an Eye" on the Tank ahead of time - your cross-class version of 'Virus' won't do anything though since Garuda is a caster.

When you see Chirada cast Friction, top up the MT. If your DPS timing means that Garuda/Suprana "Jump" before the WWs, then the Main Tank MAY eat a windburn stack if they're bad at dodging - but you should have plenty of time to Esuna this off them and probably also throw up a Stoneskin and start precasting Cure II prior to the 2x WWs. If DPS output is good, the jump happens before WWs, and the MT knows what they're doing and can kite for a few seconds... then Chirada is probably going to die before the 2x WW actually go off (which disables Suprana's Wicked Wheels, meaning that you only have to mitigate ONE of them)

In the storm phase, it can be VERY difficult for the MT to dodge Windburn if the jump happens after the storm starts. Again, throw up Eye-for-an-Eye for the upcoming Wicked Wheels, and be ready with an Esuna. In this phase, the 2x Wicked Wheels are usually staggered rather than happen simultaneously... but occasionally you can get unlucky and have a Windburn stack, plus a Friction patch/badly-dodged Slipstream and 2x Wicked Wheels all within a few seconds of each other. Tank should really be trying their best to dodge stuff properly and popping their biggest cooldowns (I try to use Sentinel for the first storm phase sisters rotation, Hallowed for the Second and Sentinel again for the Third), but hopefully you'll have 'Eye for an Eye' up and will have been saving Benediction/Swiftcast Raise "just in case"... ;)

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

The timing on WW is still throwing me off because sometimes they WW before jump and sometimes after jump, but I'll keep an eye out for the pattern.

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Set Garuda as focus target. In tornado phase, if you see her start casting Slipstream, you know it's coming regardless of before or after jump.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Set Garuda as focus target. In tornado phase, if you see her start casting Slipstream, you know it's coming regardless of before or after jump.

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Na!!! You better focus targeting the add on the MT and watch for friction! splipstream isn't the right spell to focus on!!!!!
I'm used to MT with chirada on me (and not suparna), so this may vary a lil bit when tanking suparna, but basically :
first sisters pop is simple :
Garuda+chirada both cast slipstream at the same time
chirada casts friction
Both cast WW at the same time (actually chirada's spell isn't WW, but it's the same damage output, so nobody cares :p)
double slipstream again
friction again
double WW again (but usually, OT already got back aggro here)

In tornado phase, it's a bit more tricky :
Garuda casts slipstream
chirada casts slipstream and at the same time Garuda invokes the tornadoes
Chirada casts friction, Garuda casts WW 1s after
one or two secs after, chirada does her WW (which is still not WW)
and so on

So basically, there is no more "double WW" in tornado phase, just "WW then another after 1/2s".

My advise is the following :
Focus target the add on the tank, and rely only on friction to predict incoming burst
Cast eye for an eye on the MT as soon as he is positionned in P1, or as soon as he throws his shield in tornados phase
Cast virus+stoneskin when friction starts
wait something like 1s
Start casting cure 2.

As I said, timing will change a lil bit if MT is tanking suparna instead of chirada, mainly because of the jump, but it's more or less the same

It's a bit different compared to my experience with tanking Garuda + Suparna. I do agree that Downburst (which Chirada uses in place of Wicked Wheel and Suparna uses after Chirada is dead) tend to come before Garuda and Suparna do Wicked Wheel but I found that if you rely on Suparna for Wicked Wheel timing, she sometimes do Fric-Wicked Wheel-tion. She would start casting Friction but stop middle to Wicked Wheel with Garuda then finish it. It's weird so I've relied on Garuda's second Slipstream timing to put my Damage reduction up since Chirada is on the other side of the map. It's about 5 seconds between second Slipstream and WW and that's plenty of time to react.

as a WHM I just keep MT topped off and stoneskin up at all times for the sisters phase and tanks never die to double WW (OT shouldn't be taking much damage anyways). you should have plenty of MP even if solo healing if you heal conservatively in the rest of the phases (and don't friction the group). also, limit your Holy's to no more than 2 on plumes for MP reasons unless you know you're getting a ballad.

I keep Stoneskin and E4E on the MT. Also virus on one of them after I see friction or slipstream. However, my static has the OT pull suprana and I'll Stoneskin the melee, OT and E4E the OT. I'll then Stoneskin the MT. The melee eats WW taking about 1k damage. Everyone standing there gets quickly topped off with medica 3. Our melee dps now insist WW does almost no damage and can't understand why there aren't more melee in these farm parties. Lol

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

Our melee dps now insist WW does almost no damage and can't understand why there aren't more melee in these farm parties. Lol

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Because most healers don't Stoneskin melee dps. WW does about 3.5k-4k damage. With E4E proc, that's reduced to 3.15-3.6k. Adds on WHM stoneskin on melees which ranges about 0.72-0.9k and the outgoing Medica (Either cure 3 or medica 2 btw :P) and it'll look like they do no damage. This doesn't take Virus into account.