Not sure if this has been suggested, but it would be nice if shield swipe actually had some utility in endgame via form of -outgoing damage debuff to a mob or self-buff(parry or mitigation). Ideally I'd also like to see the skill taken off GCD for a more extensive rotation.
Shield swipe
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02-26-2014, 03:19 PMMassterchefShield swipe
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02-26-2014, 04:03 PMSpookyGhost
Yeah, most people want it off the GCD. Honestly, Shield Swipe is pretty good - 210 potency, doesn't interrupt your RoH combo, and only costs 40 TP. After you've gotten a significant aggro lead, it's usually pretty safe to throw in a Shield Swipe whenever it procs. It's not ~amazing~ but it's a great way to conserve TP and up your DPS a teeny tiny bit. Also good in earlier dungeons when Pacification is actually a thing.
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02-26-2014, 04:06 PMAlistaire
A PLD friend of mine would complain about running out of TP often enough that I was confused about it till he mentioned he didn't have that on his hotbar.
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02-26-2014, 04:10 PMValmar
An ability that has a strict activation requirement such as "only after a Dodge, or parry or Block" should be off GCD. The cost should be removed and a flat cooldown put in place.
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02-26-2014, 04:16 PMYunnie
i heard it can get nutty with onion shield... its already good with zenith...
when used in conjunction with bulwark, it can be a beast of a skill...
I'm not convinced that a change is needed here, but if it gets taken off GCD, i would recommend putting a cooldown timer on it so it cant be used repeatedly over a short duration of time. Got to keep balance in mind.
Adding a defensive utility too it might be too powerful now that onion shield is already accessible. -
02-26-2014, 04:18 PMAlistaire
Yup, Onion Shield will prevent that from ever being taken off GCD.
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02-26-2014, 04:53 PMMassterchefI'm not seeing how a 210 potency skill that increases pally dps by 1%~ moreorless would be a beast of a skill in any setting, even if procing 30%+ of the time. You could take it off your skillbar and still be able to perform with the exact same effectiveness. Its clear the skill needs to be reworked in some way for some utility especially for endgame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunnie
Ideally I'd envision the skill with a 30s CD and a 5-10 second duration depending on the potency of the effects. -
02-26-2014, 05:05 PMOoshimaI'm using Onion Shield and Shield Swipe is literally almost always available, lol..Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunnie
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02-26-2014, 06:50 PMGiantbaneIt would definitely need a cooldown and to have its potency reduced. Maybe 10s for 50 potency or something like that. Even small off GCD abilities can add quite a bit to DPS because they're straight benefit with no drawback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunnie
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02-26-2014, 08:48 PMStarkbeaumont
imo they should switch effects of Shield Swipe and Riot Blade. Spamming flash, tanking multiple mobs will result in more blocks anyway and shield swipe giving mp back results in a natural way to get mp back, instead having to use a combo in your aoe tanking. on the other hand riot blade inflicting pacification gives the combo a situational but also controlable use.
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02-27-2014, 02:26 AMVersiroth
Honestly, I just wish they made the activation time last a few more seconds. As is, if you don't notice it right away, you may hit the next move in your combo instead and miss it. Raise the timer to 10 seconds and I would like the skill a lot more.
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02-27-2014, 04:20 AMSpookyGhostIt lasts a little over 2 GCDs atm, as long as you keep an eye on it you should be able to hit it whenever it procs. Would be cool if it lasted 3 GCDs, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Versiroth
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02-27-2014, 08:59 AMBrannigan
The problem with Shield Swipe isn't that it's on the GCD or the potency, it's the pacification effect. Pacification is super overpowered on stuff it works on and useless on stuff it doesn't work on. Unfortunately, almost everything worth pacifying (bosses, mostly) is immune to it. This is a problem because we have Shield Bash and Blind also, which kind of have the same problem where they're really good effects but a lot of stuff is immune to them. Flash has other uses and Shield Bash has enough uses, so I'm not saying they need to be changed, but I think paladins have enough buttons that aren't useful during most boss fights that I'd like to see Shield Swipe changed.
I agree with the OP that it should have a different secondary effect. I think it should stay on the GCD, since paladins have enough off-GCD stuff already, but the effect should be something that's useful pretty much all the time, but isn't so powerful that you absolutely need to bring a paladin for it. It'd be stepping on bard's toes a little bit, but maybe something like a short-duration version of Foe Requiem would work. I've also seen the idea tossed around that it could heal players for a small amount every time they hit the target. It doesn't need to be huge, just anything big enough where you want to hit it when the button lights up most of the time. While I do use Shield Swipe now (it looks cool and makes me feel like I'm kind of doing things), the DPS increase is very small and if you want to regenerate TP then Flash is better hate and better TP regeneration. -
02-27-2014, 02:06 PMUltimatecaliburYou could make the same comments about Silence; in fact, you could say that Pacification is to Special Attacks as Silence is to Spells. Also a surprisingly large number of Bosses can be effected by Pacification (Ouranos in Copperbell HM can have the two SA he uses on rotation interrupted by it). Any attack that you can Stun but cannot Silence should be affected by Pacification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
Procing on Block is the problem because outside of the once every 3 minutes 15s Block boost Bulwark grants you can't reliably use it to interrupt anything. -
02-27-2014, 03:02 PMBrannigan
The difference between Silence/Stun and Pacification is that other classes can Stun and Silence. Until there's more classes have access to pacification I don't really see it being a thing on hard content. I don't mean to sound like I'm moving the goalposts, but there's nothing harder than Ifrit (Hard) that can be pacified right now (I guess you could say Bone Dragon is harder, kind of maybe). If, say, Twintania could be pacified and prevent Death Sentence and plummet it'd be great for Shield Swipe, but it'd also mean that you're basically required to bring a paladin.
They could take the blocking requirement off of Shield Swipe and add pacification to another class (Rain of Death and One Ilm Punch are kind of crappy) and make more content that's pacify-enabled - that'd be fine too, but it requires changes for other classes and I'm just spitballing for paladin. Paladin has a lot of stuff that's of questionable usefulness in harder content, so I'd like to have one of our things with a fun mechanic like block reaction be a bit more useful. -
02-27-2014, 04:04 PMUltimatecaliburWe do not know what the forthcoming Musketeer class (It could get a 2s Pacify equivalent of the Archer's Blunt Arrow), the next 3 dungeons, Leviathan, Gilgamesh or turns 6-9 will bring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
I also don't want to loose the Benefit on a Block part of the ability the change I would make to it are along the lines of this:Quote:
They could take the blocking requirement off of Shield Swipe and add pacification to another class (Rain of Death and One Ilm Punch are kind of crappy) and make more content that's pacify-enabled - that'd be fine too, but it requires changes for other classes and I'm just spitballing for paladin. Paladin has a lot of stuff that's of questionable usefulness in harder content, so I'd like to have one of our things with a fun mechanic like block reaction be a bit more useful.
Quote:
Shield Swipe
Instant
2.5s
TP 40
Range 3y
Deliver an attack with potency 100.
Additional Effect: Pacify for 2s
Combo Action: Successful Block
Combo Potency: 210
Combo Effect: Pacify for 6s
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02-27-2014, 05:26 PMChross
I would prefer to have shield swipe to aoe than to have it off the gcd. Pld seemed to lack for aoe agro skill and flash is not meant to be spammed anyway and also our circle scorn doesnt generate enmity neither. But putting aoe means SE gonna put more tp cost and a decrease in atk potency. Although i was hoping they would bring back our spirit within combo.
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02-28-2014, 02:11 PMWadoka
What, exactly, is the "Pacification" effect? I swear I've never seen it appear to actually do anything, when I use Shield Swipe. At least, nothing I've ever noticed.
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02-28-2014, 02:24 PMValmarWhen a Mob is Pacified it cannot use any abilities, if it is alrdy casting a spell or ability the move will not go off if it is affected with Pacify at the time it finishes the castQuote:
Originally Posted by Wadoka
however there is an exception to the rule, certain mobs like the Dira in CT can be affected by Pacification but it does nothing to stop their spells and abilities. I'm not sure if this is a bug or some kind of oversight that no ones ever cared to ask a Dev about. -
02-28-2014, 07:25 PMUltimatecaliburPacification is a status effect that prevent the inflicted from using or finishing any Special Attacks (TP Abilities) while under its effect. It is the same effect that prevent MAR/WAR from using abilities after Berserk and is basically a mirror status effect to Silence, which does the same for Spells (MP Abilities).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadoka
For a demonstration of it working, I suggest you go to Brayflock's Longstop with a high Blockrate Shield. Make your way to the final boss Aiatar. If you successfully block one of his autoattacks, use Shield Swipe when he next starts channeling Dragon Breath. If you manage to successfully do so you will interrupt the Dragon Breath. -
03-01-2014, 02:39 AMBardo
I don't like the idea of simply making Shield Swipe instant because it would dramatically favor Block Rate shields. DRAMATICALLY.
Plus, we already have a stun with no cooldown AND a silence.
The pacification effect would simply be FAR too powerful if it were off the global.
Paladin is really hurting for an off-tanking combo.
As is now, the RoH combo actually does more damage than the Riot Blade combo AND using the Riot Blade combo runs you out of TP quickly.
I say just make Shield Swipe the third skill in the Riot Blade combo, up the potency to ~250 when combo'd so that the Riot Blade combo does more total potency and costs less TP per global than the RoH combo, and call it a day.