Fights will inherenty get nerfed from increase iLv, why do we need echo as well?

If a fair amount of players can clear for instance T5 at i90, with an increase of iLv and gear, the fights will naturally become easier to complete; the echo buff seems hugely nonsensical in my honest opinion. Does anyone think echo is actually a good thing to implement?

Considering Coil is tied to the game's plot and not everyone has the time to get to full i90, or improve their skills needed to clear the fight as-is, yes.
There's nothing wrong with giving an extra push to help newer or less skilled players attempt to clear older content. It's not going to be a free pass to clear it, either but it will help them out.

And if you really hate it, you can just disable the buff.

Being Ilvl102 won't make it easier for you to dodge a dive-bomb. Trust me, even with the Echo buff, A LOT of people will still be struggling to get past Turn 5.

Dude, going from i90 to i100 is going to give you like 200 more HP, 20 more primary stat, and 3 more weapon damage. Because itemization in this game is so bland you won't really get much more powerful fast enough to have gear take the place of actual nerfs and clearing coil is required to progress

because some people are just bad and ilvl wont help that.

Yes...because everyone running it will be in i90+

People say that CT is faceroll-easy...in i85+...and yet, get annoyed when the alliance made up of people i55-i70 are having a difficult time with one boss or another...



Not everyone is going to have the super-awesome gear you do. And not everyone even with one job like that will be running as that job so they can roll on the gear they want

The game developers know what they need to do and will do what they think is best. So if they are giving a buff they obviously feel it will help people. Its not the players job to wonder if a buff or nerf is justified. Just enjoy the game.

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Originally Posted by Heskett

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If that's the case, an echo buff will still be moot.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

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Just means people have to wait an extra week or so to gain access to the end of the content. Dying you don't notice a difference between ilv80 and ilv90 is silly.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

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Then the content shouldn't be available for completing until they are geared enough.

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Originally Posted by Noata

Its not the players job to wonder if a buff or nerf is justified.

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actually, it kind of is. after all i mean, we are the ones playing it, and paying for it. monthly

you have the option of not using the echo buff no one is shoving it down your throat.

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Originally Posted by Seifu

Then the content shouldn't be available for completing until they are geared enough.

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Did you start Coil in full i90? Or were you closer to i70, the recommended ilv...

Going from 90 to 100 or 120 is going to give you a lot more than 200 HP.

A full darklight paladin has about 5500 HP, a full i90 paladin has 6700 hp (no food assumption).

Therefore, being ilvl 100 would probably put you at 8000 HP so that even without any help at all, you can always survive death sentence and it's follow up attack. For non tanks, well scholars have around 3300 HP in full DL and about 4200 in it so... either way classes should be gaining between 500 HP (assuming the linear trend) and 1500 HP.
For other classes though, having 500 more HP won't make you suddenly a badass in coil. Even if you went from the 3300 HP darklight to having 5000 HP, you're still going to die if you're bad. The Echo buff combined with gear could put you as high as say, 7000 HP or so as a healer. Suddenly any derp is manageable.

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Originally Posted by Seifu

If that's the case, an echo buff will still be moot.

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No, while it may not help a lot of people who are beyond helping, it still will give those static groups who are close, but not quite, able to down Twintania a helpful boost. The little bit of extra DPS or HP will be beneficial to those people and will most likely finally give them their victory.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

actually, it kind of is. after all i mean, we are the ones playing it, and paying for it. monthly

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you may not agree and ask more details about it, but you have actually no right at all regarding the actual development. They program the game THEY want, and then YOU chose to pay for it or not. That's only there where you can have an influence : pay or not

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Originally Posted by Seifu

If a fair amount of players can clear for instance T5 at i90, with an increase of iLv and gear, the fights will naturally become easier to complete; the echo buff seems hugely nonsensical in my honest opinion. Does anyone think echo is actually a good thing to implement?

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Because people with ilvl 110+ aren't going to bother with T5.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

you have the option of not using the echo buff no one is shoving it down your throat.

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Of course, no one will listen to your comment. Which is unfortunate.

Usually people when given this option will still go down the easy path they are given, then complain that they were even given the easy option in the first place, knowing they could have the harder option as well.

Welcome to FFXIV! Accessibility is the name of the game. Where have you been?

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Originally Posted by ZReport

Of course, no one will listen to your comment. Which is unfortunate.

Usually people when given this option will still go down the easy path they are given, then complain that they were even given the easy option in the first place, knowing they could have the harder option as well.

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AKa basically what happened with the turn 2 enrage bug yesterday :P

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Originally Posted by Heskett

No, while it may not help a lot of people who are beyond helping, it still will give those static groups who are close, but not quite, able to down Twintania a helpful boost. The little bit of extra DPS or HP will be beneficial to those people and will most likely finally give them their victory.

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If they only need that small of a push, wait the 1-2 weeks for the new gear. I'm sure anyone that close who will be/had been spending all that time getting to twisters but having trouble clearing it would much rather do it without trivializing their win with an "echo-buff", regardless if they ended up using it or not.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

you may not agree and ask more details about it, but you have actually no right at all regarding the actual development. They program the game THEY want, and then YOU chose to pay for it or not. That's only there where you can have an influence : pay or not

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but if they make enough decisions the people dont agree with and enough people choose to not pay for it then they wouldnt have much of a product would they?

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Originally Posted by alhandra

but if they make enough decisions the people dont agree with and enough people choose to not pay for it then they wouldnt have much of a product would they?

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You are insinuating that the majority of the players DON'T WANT the buff, I'm pretty sure there are equal number of players who are just fine with the buff and the changes coming to Coil 1-5, they are paying customers too, let me ask you this...and this goes to Seifu too....will the buff and changes to coil 1-5 and easier access to those players who have yet to do it Impede your game play and enjoyment of the game in anyway?, You and your fellow coil static (that is if you have one) will be too busy with the new coil content to care whats going on with people doing 1-5.

T5 will be just like all the Titan EX parties that only want i85+, and then disband after one failure.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

you have the option of not using the echo buff no one is shoving it down your throat.

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You honestly think people will decline the buff? Everyone does what is easier. That is like saying you should fight all the trash in T3 if you think its too easy. GL getting a whole party to do that. I will start a PF group saying "Coil T3, we are fighting everything, good times!"

I am with OP, every week people get better gear, it is easy to do. Every week each and every fight gets easier for them. With i90 being a free for all, every previous fight will be much easier. EX Primals, Titan HM, Coil, etc.

You underestimate the level of bad that plagues this genre OP. It's necessary.

I don't understand why it bothers people to beat things. Who cares if it becomes easier than what you beat it at. Wah wah wah...

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Originally Posted by alhandra

actually, it kind of is. after all i mean, we are the ones playing it, and paying for it. monthly

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No, no, no alhandra -- according to Noata: depend on the experts, don't research or inform yourself, accept what you're given and be HAPPY about it.

Sheeple-club.

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Originally Posted by AngelMoon

I don't understand why it bothers people to beat things. Who cares if it becomes easier than what you beat it at. Wah wah wah...

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You ask this to players who love to parade around a "First Achievement Y on X Server" and/or people who obtain a relic, +1, or primal weapon and then proceed to stand around engaged to nothing in particular in Mor Dhona or a city. Player's senses of entitlement get too high-- they don't want to see average Joe player easily obtain what they suffered themselves to obtain. When the bar is raised, they don't want to meet that bar, they only want to revel in past achievements for as long as possible.

Those who were late to the party are even more pissed, because they didn't have enough time to revel like every other person did, and they are once again bottom of the barrel.

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Originally Posted by AngelMoon

I don't understand why it bothers people to beat things. Who cares if it becomes easier than what you beat it at. Wah wah wah...

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Apparently the people you're complaining about do. Common sense?

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Originally Posted by Seifu

If a fair amount of players can clear for instance T5 at i90, with an increase of iLv and gear, the fights will naturally become easier to complete; the echo buff seems hugely nonsensical in my honest opinion. Does anyone think echo is actually a good thing to implement?

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BC 1-5 will be primarily for people in ilvl 70 to 80 gear to hit ilvl 90. The echo buff is for those groups so random pugs can handle it. If you're already ilvl 90, you should be doing 6-9.