FC vs Group

Hi all,

Just wanted to give some feedback and maybe start a discussion on this?

Currently I think the game empowers a group of 8 players (static) a bit to much and alienates these individuals from the whole FC experience.

As it stands now a FC cannot do alot together in terms of progressive content eg Coil for now.

You can argue that well they have primals but primals to me are not enough and even then the 8 static members (coil group) will most likely take their their 8 members in.

In the future i would really like to see more content that we can do as a FC eg 24 man or 16 man or even 40 man that are considered coil level worthy.

Most people will say in the future turns 1-5 will not have any lockouts, but lets be honest to ourselfs majoirty of the player base will quick catch up and then you'll fall back in to the 8 man static trap for turns 6+

The problem is the coil lockout system is terrible in design. Here's a few reasons why.

- Like you said it makes it a lot tougher for FCs to include everyone in raid groups. More of then than not someone will be left out. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if FC members that already completed coil can go back and help the others that want to get them done. I'm one of the leaders for my FC and it really pains me to be unable to include everyone that wants to do coil into our coil group because there aren't enough people who main tanks to form more than one raid group. Go level a tank you say? I'm working on that myself and it will honestly take about a month to get a tank geared up well enough for coil because of the other time-restricted lockouts.

- The design also conflicts greatly with the ratio of tanks to total players. There are simply way too many DPS/healers compared to tanks and this is made evident by the DF queue timers. What tends to happen is that the good tanks will easily get into static groups, while the others just get left out hoping that maybe some tanks will join their coil groups in PF. Because these tanks cannot join or help other coil groups once they're done their runs, a significant number of people have to be excluded by design.

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Originally Posted by Zaels

Because these tanks cannot join or help other coil groups once they're done their runs, a significant number of people have to be excluded by design.

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Indeed, SE's ability not to see the totally obvious result of some of their asinine game mechanics is truly astounding.

Give them some time to fix things and update the game, maybe get a feel for a real solid way to do things.
(or don't, I don't care.)
<3

Crystal Tower is becoming open to Free Companies soon, isn't it?
24-man races, begin!
BCoB is unlocking in patch 2.2 so players can run 1-5 without being locked out.

I feel there is no issue with the sizes of dungeons and players being able to queue for content.
Yes, the perfect size currently is 8. If you have 7 really good and consistent friends, you'll be laughing and destroying content all over the place.

If you have 7 unreliable friends, being in a FC with 100 people means you have substitutes, people on different stages of progression willing to help you on on your second relic, and other dungeons.
However, more 24+man content would be incredible...

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Originally Posted by Kyoskai

Give them some time to fix things and update the game, maybe get a feel for a real solid way to do things.
(or don't, I don't care.)
<3

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just to make sure everyone understands this isn't a moan thread, i really want to highlight what i think is an issue at the heart of Free Companies or guilds. If people disagree with me then please comment, maybe am missing the point.

I really think its very unhealthy to just have 8 man static content, am scared the longer it goes on the more the wider in the FC will gaps appear and the more issues it will cause.

by the way someone might highlight that CT will be 24 man (how far away is this?) , but my understanding is that it will always be lower then coil, so other then clearing it once with your mains, this will become an ALT area like the currently CT.

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

However, more 24+man content would be incredible...

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And this is what i want to see aswell, more to do and more to aim with that is centered around the FC.

I think the cristal tower was made the right way. For future coil turns or content lockout, SE should just lock reward once you complete the content.

Let's say someone completed T6 & T7 on Monday. They have lotted (or not) and got a few of the new tombstones. Then a friend of theirs come and want to run T6, but is 1 tank short. They should be allowed to come again in T6, though they won't be able to lot (pass only, wether they obtained a lot or not in their 1st run of the week) and won't earn any tombstone.

This way the reward lockouts remain (which is the primary reason why we can't do coil more than once a week) but people will still be able to help each other to progress

I dont know about your FC but ours does stuff together all the time, to the point of excluding pugging most everything. Two coil groups, a half alt coil group, CT runs, map runs, Primal runs, dungeon runs... I dont get these people that only do statics, you are giving up community and working tword a goal for a group of players (the FC) Yeah sure I would like to be able to take 2 full groups into CT, but not being able to do that one thing doesnt make my FC useless or unnecessary. I do agree that to many statics are around and to many FC's are made up of 12 or less people, and it saddens me, but Im so glad I have my FC, my super active, super social FC, and I wouldn't trade that for the best static group running right now.

The whole design of this game honestly is anti guild. It is based around lowman statics.

Until the devs stop designing content with absurd lockouts and 8man min/max the problem is unsolvable.

As guild leader it is not fun every Monday to decide who is forced to pug and who gets to run with their guild. The fact that we to do this shows the failure of the design of the content as a whole.

Although it doesn't really fix the problem of doing 6-9 adding 1-5 to the DF will be a big help. The main problem with not being is a static is that your reliant on running with people in the party finder on your server only which for people that don't get it done right away (by tues/weds at the latest) means your more then likely sitting at whatever turn you did manage to get through for the rest of the week.
It does hurt feelings when you see people forming statics within a FC and it sucks even more when you see FC members that are fully geared but have never been in coil because they can't get a group because they play on a wonky day. There are very few if any practical ways ATM to deal with the situation and it's just one of those unfortunate things that you have to hope your on at the same time as other people who want to run coil. It's really a shame though.

My biggest hope for 2.2 is that in 6-9 even if you finish a turn you can go back and help others with it at the penalty of no loot.

All the people that are coil-ready in my FC are put into their own static with other members. If they don't show up, the members of the static are free to decide if they want to wait or pug. I don't see this problem. We still do other contents as an FC like Crystal Tower on non-raid days or treasure maps hunting or random dungeons or extreme primals learning (since besides me and another person, other people in FC have only beaten Garuda).

My personal opinion and my past experience I have never actually ever seen such a conflict of interest in an mmo game before.

1st mmorpg i played in where i have people actually question whether a guild is necessary at all, e.g a linkshell is enough aslong as you have your 8 man static.

If you're guild is having trouble to organize, it's not SE's fault. Blame your guild master for his poor organizational skills.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

If you're guild is having trouble to organize, it's not SE's fault. Blame your guild master for his poor organizational skills.

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trouble organizing what; way to jump the gun. i clear turns 1-5 in 1 night with my static then am locked out. we have 4 other raid teams. Yes we do primals whoppie! and 8 man treasure maps i have done as 4 man.

CT is puggable as an 8 man again, and most people go in for their alts.

Please don't just jump and attack and be insulting. am up for a civil discusssion ty.

Just to add i do think SE is moving in the right direction with unlocking turns 1-5 but i still feel like we need more FC friendly content. NOT low man static content.

Give a free company a purpose to work towards.... i guess is what am saying.

You know to help a bit people should stop having statics inside their guilds. Imo it defeats the purpose of joining a guild. It's like "Oh hey join my fc! But we aren't going to do any content with you because static"

There's just really not any content in the game that encourages larger groups, especially in the open world. Behemoth, Odin and FATEs are the only content that are worthwhile doing in large groups. Eventually they'll make it to where you can preform parties for CT without having to work the system, but more open world content that encourages larger groups would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

You know to help a bit people should stop having statics inside their guilds. Imo it defeats the purpose of joining a guild. It's like "Oh hey join my fc! But we aren't going to do any content with you because static"

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If you don't use static groups you don't have much hope of ever progressing through Coil... that's the problem. If my FC didn't use statics we probably wouldn't have cleared T4 yet because we'd be constantly re-gearing and teaching newbies every time we ran. A static ensures you make progress every run because the members are better geared and more experienced with the content every time.

The easy solution to this is a loot lockout like CT. Yes it would result in merc guilds selling runs again but tbh at this point I don't care because the current dilemma is much worse. The fact that such a dilemma even exists is an indication of very bad design. It segregates FCs into smaller cliques and leaves many entirely unable to participate unless a static member is offline for some reason... Even if we didn't use statics there would STILL be a lot of members (mostly DPS) who would be unable to do coil with the FC simply because there are far fewer tanks and eventually they would all be locked out.

SE really needs to rethink this design.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Snip

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Not necessarily. Every time I do coil it's with a different group and majority of the times I take new comers along. All you need is people with half a brain (which is rare in this game >.>) I do T1-4 every time no problem. Just because you didn't run with that person before doesn't mean they aren't geared/experienced and it only takes like no time to explain stuff in this game.

A loot lock out or just RNG would be fine too, I personally don't see what the problem is with selling runs.

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Originally Posted by joshsecret

a) you dont beat it with the training party

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That really is a good idea.

one thing i have read on here time and time again is people saying that they cannot help their FC members with Coil. But i have never seen anyone talk about the work around for this. there is a way, albeit a cumbersome one, but anyone can help anyone with any turn as long as a) you dont beat it with the training party and b) you stagger the turns to match different days.

ie. Monday is T1 training mode, all are invited. Monday night is static T1 clear mode. Tuesday.. etc.
again this is time consuming but possible. and yes in this way you cannot carry your FC members through but you can at least help them learn the turns and make them better off for starting their own statics within the company or with others.