Twintania advice: take two!!

Most of the time I like to run the 2 tank strat, because of the hatch on OT, and the whole fight seems just smoother overall.

Here's what happens last set of divebombs to us:

3rd bomb > pull and stack snake spawns > SMN LB > snakes die all but boss:

Sometimes the DPS will not have big snake dead before profusion, so we have our offtank provoke the big snake and position at Twins behind, while I move Twin to the middle to get ready to stun Dreads.

But when this happens our offtank seems to die often, and we wipe due to the big snake going straight for our WHM. Usually if I am running with a WAR, the WAR pops Holmgang after the 1st 2 snakes die and he gets the debuff.

I should save cooldowns as a PLD for the next death sentence phase? Because I feel if I pop rampart when the 4 snakes are on our WAR, he will probably be able to save Holmgang for profusion.

I pop HG right when Twin drops in Phase 4, that's the best time correct?

Off Tank should not/can't take Big Snake if he got 4 debuffs up

He will die like fly in seconds without Hallowed Ground

Here I can simple tell you this, if you can't kill Big Snake or Big Snake HP is around 1-5% during Twintania begin Twister Phase, you are doing wrong now

DPS is fault here, they can't kill Big Daddy Snake in time

Tank also fault here if Snakes position is not set in its place, MT <- Big, Small -> OT, and both Big and Small stack together whilst MT should not get debuffs more than 1 or 2

For HG use, this is my style and doing, I am MT, I tank Big Snake until its died, I will pop Sentinel and Rampart depend how much debuffs you got, I always got 1 only so Sentinel is enough, if got 2 or 3 (3 is dangerous, most case you should not get 3 debuffs) I will pop Sentinel and Rampart together, If Healer can't keep up with 3 debuffs (not supposed to), I pop HG right away and pray I will not die on Twintania pop time

If got 4, pray to healer, pray they can save you until Big Snake died, you do anything to survive Big Snake until its died or Twintania pop up then USE HG after Twintania pop

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Originally Posted by Altimis

Off Tank should not/can't take Big Snake if he got 4 debuffs up

He will die like fly in seconds without Hallowed Ground

Here I can simple tell you this, if you can't kill Big Snake or Big Snake HP is around 1-5% during Twintania begin Twister Phase, you are doing wrong now

DPS is fault here, they can't kill Big Daddy Snake in time

Tank also fault here if Snakes position is not set in its place, MT <- Big, Small -> OT, and both Big and Small stack together whilst MT should not get debuffs more than 1 or 2

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1-2% left on Asclepius still killable after profusion. Get the bard to do the job since there is sufficient time between Profusion to 1st Dreadknight drop (cos twister comes first and Bard is 100% uptime).

Anything more... good game.. But anyways Asclepius should be dead before Profusion, if not at most 1-2 sec after Profusion/before the casting of Twister.

You really shouldn't have to use CDs for snake phase. You should get 2 stacks at MOST as the MT if you position correctly, 0 if you're confident with dodging the LB'd adds.

Even with 2 stacks my ilvl 83 PLD alt was able to tank big snake without using a single CD. Our SCH healed me perfectly fine through it while our WHM went to cleric stance and spammed Stone 2. Big snake died a while before TT came down to profusion.

Also, popping HG right as TT drops is a bad idea. You should be saving HG for liquid hell phase so if you get targeted you can just sit there and stack them in one spot, then move out. It just makes that phase easier. I've been targeted 3 times in a row by liquid hell, and having to run around 3 times makes the tank position very messy if I didn't stack the first set. You have to be prepared for BAD liquid hells. Worst case scenario for LH is you and the OT are constantly targeted.

What you should be doing for TT dropping is stone skinning yourself (if your WHM doesn't do it) while in your neural link, then pre-emptively recasting SS so when profusion hits, you have a new one applied to eat the plummet damage that comes right after. You should still be sitting at 80% HP when that happens which makes the transition very smooth for your healers.

@gangaloo that's pretty much what I do. I try to save HG. Been in some amazing groups, but a lot of them simply cannot kill the big snake before TT drops because that one dps dies to the 2nd set of divebombs.

When you say "when the 4 snakes are on our WAR", do you mean you guys aren't killing any of the hygieia until the limit break?
If so, then that's probably the reason why you're not killing Asclepius in time.

Try killing one of the Hygieia right away as soon as they pop so that your DPS is getting an extra 25% damage on Asclepius right away.
Have one of your dps get the second one low while the rest move to Asclepius. (you can't kill the second one right away or Asclepius will lose her stacks of the debuff before the second set spawns)
Kill the second hygieia during the second set of divebombs to reset the debuff timer on Asclepius before it expires and give him a second stack.
Now when your SMN uses limit to kill the 3rd and 4th hygieia, Asclepius will take 50% more damage from the limit.

This is a far more efficient way to do damage during this phase.

@Bardo that is not necessarily correct even though it is a accepted method of doing it. Usually we just toss the summoner on both hygeia and he can bring both down to 40% by himself via bane while dps asclepius. The 3 other dps stay on asclepius throughout.

Once all 4 spawn have you SMN lb and BLM double flare, this should kill 2 and leave 2 at minimal HP. This way your tanks are not taking extra damage this phase. After Hygeia die make sure your OT switch to DPS stance and burn dps CDs. As pld you can crit well up to 1200 with spirit within if you pop a pot.

If you are MT and taking stacks you are positioning wrong it is that simple. It should be U---Asclepius ---- Hygiea x 4 ---- OT. This way you should never take stacks and 1 if a hygeia aggros funny. You need all your CDs for DS. If you dont have stacks (which case sch can dps) and Asclepius does not die well before profusion you are going to hit hard enrage 100%. This is DPS problem and they need to bring up their game or replaced.

@NightReach But that means you're doing normal damage to Asclepius for a full minute (or more) AND limit break hits him for normal damage.

Lets look at an example:
You have 45 seconds before the second set of divebombs which take an additional 20 seconds, and then it takes another 10 seconds or so to get across the arena and actually get off the limit break.
So let's say out of that 75 seconds, you get about 60 seconds of actual dps since people will have to be running in and out of divebombs and across the arena.

You can kill a Hygieia in ~15 seconds with a total combined raid damage of just over 1k dps. (they have 16k hp vs the 189k of Asclepius)
So after you kill the first Hygieia, you have 45 seconds of +25% damage before the limit break (leaving out 15 seconds or so when dps can't really be attacking full strength).
15 sec of very little damage on Asclepius + 45 seconds of 125% damage vs 60 seconds of 100% damage.
They are roughly equal.
But then you add +50% limit break damage on Asclepius and come out WAY ahead.

You mention "this way your tanks aren't taking extra damage this phase", but that's untrue as well.
Your main tank can easily position to avoid the first hygieia death, meaning your offtank gets hit and still has 1 snake on him. But one snake doing 25% more damage is actually LESS damage taken than two snakes with no buff.
As you kill the second one, your offtank will get a second stack, but again he'll have 2 snakes on him each doing 50% more damage, which is again LESS than the amount of damage he would have taken tanking all 4 snakes with no debuff.

@Bardo first of all the debuff only last 40 sec which mean u have to organize to down the second hygeia during the first dive which can be annoying to do. Our way is simply cleaner and less room for error and we usually have a good 5-10 sec after downing acelpius before Twin flies down.

In anycase it is pointless to argue who's way is better. OP just have to pick something and follow it and make sure he isnt getting stacks/things are dying.

@NightReach
We're not really arguing about who's way is better.
We're arguing who's way is better for the OP.

Obviously saving all the adds to limit them together takes less coordination and positioning, so if you have no problem with heals or dps killing Asclepius in time, then that strategy is the way to go.
But the OP specifically mentioned that they didn't have the dps to get him down in time with that strategy.
And the strategy I highlighted can get you through this phase with a lower total raid dps output.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

@Bardo first of all the debuff only last 40 sec which mean u have to organize to down the second hygeia during the first dive which can be annoying to do. Our way is simply cleaner and less room for error and we usually have a good 5-10 sec after downing acelpius before Twin flies down.

In anycase it is pointless to argue who's way is better. OP just have to pick something and follow it and make sure he isnt getting stacks/things are dying.

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I don't have issues getting stacks. I can 100% always avoid them, simple.

Do not waste HG at start of p4. its a waste. Twin opens up with an immediate plummet or DS. Why would you all of a sudden waste your HG? I pop sentinel right away and

get into position asap. You want to save your HG in case you get targetted by pools while tanking since you do not want to move twin when hatch is open. Your targetted > pop HG > stack pools > turn

twin along his target line so your OT doesnt have to move out of the neurolink. Remember you may be targetted by pools more than once as MT.

Everyone here is forgetting the main thing. You have to find what works for YOUR GROUP. What works great for one persons group does not always work for your group.

Do whatever it takes to have the big snake dead before the big aoe after snakes. Play around with different ways of doing it. I think our Melee doesn't even attack the small snakes he stays on the big snake 100% of the time. The main thing to understand about the SMN/BLM LB is to get this effect: 2 snakes will die putting stacks on the other 2 making them easier to kill. Next 2 will die putting 4 stacks on the big snake making it even easier to kill. Even if the big snake is not 100% dead the most import thing is to have the stacks roll off before aoe hits from twin.

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Originally Posted by LavellaNyteshade

Do not waste HG at start of p4. its a waste. Twin opens up with an immediate plummet or DS. Why would you all of a sudden waste your HG? I pop sentinel right away and

get into position asap. You want to save your HG in case you get targetted by pools while tanking since you do not want to move twin when hatch is open. Your targetted > pop HG > stack pools > turn

twin along his target line so your OT doesnt have to move out of the neurolink. Remember you may be targetted by pools more than once as MT.

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ncie strat, but what happen when twin target MT twice? lol had that happen to me last week. (we killed her anyway but still really funny to see it happen lol)

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Originally Posted by Remn

ncie strat, but what happen when twin target MT twice? lol had that happen to me last week. (we killed her anyway but still really funny to see it happen lol)

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Circle around the Neurolink. Our MT never use his HG for tanking Liquid Hell, as it's easy for him to just circle around while still holding Twintania in position.