Level 50....Gladiator?

Hopped on main scenario roulette this morning one of the party members is a 50GLD. Obvious first reaction from group is "hey, you forgot to equip Soul of Paladin". Nope, apparently someone looked up the person's profile and this person didn't have the sub class requirements....

Other Scholar quits immediately, we get another Scholar (who was fraking awesome by the way), complete run with only one wipe, everyone is happy. I'm sure most credit goes to the main tank, but my question is has anyone else seen that? I've run roulette plenty of times and I've never come across a level 50 without a job equipped. Weird.

Was he talking at all? A lot of RMT just level up their base class to farm mobs or dungeons and don't bother with getting their jobs.

Not having it equipped, yes. Not having it even unlocked, no.

Lol talking only when we weren't talking about why they didn't have soul of paladin equipped. Then it was silence. Haha

The only benefit of lv50 class without job is that you can cross any skills, unlike job which is limited to certain classes.
But you also lost the job skills.
Not about right or wrong.
But simply another way to play the game.

I'm happy to see this is somewhat viable, since I enjoy the Gladiator class, but don't want to be a paladin. I can't imagine I'll get to EX modes like that, but who knows?

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Originally Posted by Langureion

The only benefit of lv50 class without job is that you can cross any skills, unlike job which is limited to certain classes.
But you also lost the job skills.
Not about right or wrong.
But simply another way to play the game.

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It's true that it's doable, but if he didn't even have his subclass leveled, who's to say he had anything else leveled and was doing it for the benefit of the other classes skills? He wil definitely need the additional job skills for harder content. It may be pure ignorance and he didn't know the importance.

On my alt I have a level 50 GLD, never leveled up CNJ for the PLD job, either. Currently she's decked out in full Militia gear (working on penta-melding it) with Allagan belt and DL accessories, rocking and HQ Mailbreaker and HQ Darksteel Scutum. It's certainly a viable strategy for 4-mans, having run AK in it by accident once (no wipes, thankfully). It's ridiculously hard to keep aggro against people using Zenith weapons, of course, but it's not impossible. Needless to say I'd never run Coil or CT with it, haha.

Just from my experience, however, the best thing about GLD is that they're really able to make use of other DoW's abilities to boost their damage dealt and mitigate damage taken. Haymaker is great for mitigating a bit of damage with Slow (and debuffing targets who use Haste), Featherfoot and Invigorate are great additions for obvious reasons, and Second Wind's always useful in a pinch. They can also buff their damage pretty consistently with their natural Fight or Flight, alongside Raging Strikes and Blood for Blood (combined with Rampart to cut off the increased damage taken). Straight Shot allows them to always keep up an increased crit-rate, or you could add Internal Release is you want something off the GCD. And, of course, Bloodbath and Mercy Stroke are just nice to have around from MRD. I have yet to get all of the DoW cross-class abilities yet, and I can see how certain DoM abilities would be great (Stoneskin, Cure, and Virus come to mind), but it's not a bad way to play.

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Originally Posted by Langureion

The only benefit of lv50 class without job is that you can cross any skills, unlike job which is limited to certain classes.
But you also lost the job skills.
Not about right or wrong.
But simply another way to play the game.

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Shield Oath.

IF he's not a RMT, he may just absolutely hate the idea of having to level up CNJ. I know having to level up MRD was a hug chore to get my DRG job, same for my PLD friend and CNJ. As said before, I'm glad it's viable. A little unfortunate that DF doesn't allow you to queue as what role you want. I would totally sign up as a LNC tank because I know for a fact that's viable. I'm sure once we have all of our Jobs, using classes instead of jobs will become more acceptable. Kind of like how WoW has hybrid classes, I know it's a bad example but it's a pretty cool idea.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

I would totally sign up as a LNC tank because I know for a fact that's viable..

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For what exactly? Lancers also don't have the threat generation needed to stay above healers if they have to do any multi-target work (or other DPS for that matter) let alone the damage mitigation for any of the non-story mode dungeons.

Yeah...shield oath trumps any of the potential cross-class skills he'd be gaining. It's fine if you wanna play around with it in a FC party, or PVP, or something. But it seems a bit off for DF.

I know of a friend who only bought the game to play the main story (and yeah that sounds stupid, but w/e 40 dollars) so it might be the case where they just want to only go that direction.

...or could be just really really clueless about the PLD class.

Honestly, all this, "X class sucks without Y Job" talk strikes me of loldrg of yester-year. They work, people have proven it as such. So what if it's harder, if it's what that person wants why should we belittle that effort? I, as Warrior, have lost hate to Dragoons several times. Speaks ill of my tanking ability, yes, but if a Warrior cycling their Butcher's Block combo and Overpower can lose hate to a Dragoon, a lancer tank doesn't sound all that far-fetched at all. If a lancer tank can't generate as much enmity as a healer, then the healer should temper how much healing they are putting out. They gave us this convenient enmity meter in the form of a 'red light, green light' system, easy to see if you're about to pull aggro or not.

I applaud those that want to try different ideas, test what works and what doesn't and go with their guts. If only we could all be so open-minded.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

I lost threat to a DRG

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This either happened in the first six seconds of a fight, or the DRG was attacking the wrong target in a multi-pull, or you didn't have defiance on. The only time I've seen a tank (PLD or WAR) lose threat after the first 15 seconds or so into a fight was to a WHM spamming Medica II and Cure III to pull threat deliberately.

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

Hopped on main scenario roulette

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

Other Scholar quits immediately

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Looks like he did you guys a favor.

This is why I don't even queue for Main Scenario anymore. I'd rather gain my tomes the slow way then deal with the types of assholes that Scenario Roulette spawns.

Ran Aurum Vale one time with an archer. Party asked them why they werent on bard, and they didnt even know there was a job system. Was kind of funny and sad at the same time.

Well to be honest, there really isn't much use for any of your Bard skills until the ilvl-capped dungeons.

It's the AF gear that makes it unfortunate. Hell, if more people ignored their Jobs then maybe lv45+ crafting wouldn't be completely useless.

Its cool if you want to try with that, its not fun when you dump that into a party and expect everyone else to go with it. Even if it is viable its far less reliable and stresses out the healer.

My Y'sonjha (ex-main, now 2nd char) reached PGL and THM level 50 before the job system came ingame 1.0. The moment the job-system came I played already on Skadi (Skadi'a since ARR).
Never did the job quests until now.
But I'm re-working on the THM quests for now.

My GLD is Lv 90 with STR accesories, and the damage sucks compared to any job :/

On the flip side, how would you react if I queued up as 50ACN to heal?

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Originally Posted by dayspring83

On the flip side, how would you react if I queued up as 50ACN to heal?

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Maybe the same way with a Lv50 THM to heal.
ACN are damage dealers, not healers.

Just when I think it's going to be a good day, I read one of these threads.....

If you don't pick up paladin as a gladiator.......

You know what, never mind. (Headdesk)

Ran into a guy in DF the other day with all his adv. classes at lvl 50.. and not one "prestige" class unlocked. Didn't talk in group but did just fine in the lowbie dungeon were were in. Maybe no one took the time to explain the advantage to them? Maybe English isn't their first language and they are having issues understanding nuances?

Tanking on a glad is not just hard on the tank but on the healers as well, they have to heal more while watching that they don't rip threat from their weak threat generation. I can understand why a healer left. It's just plain rude to do that to a group of strangers, any reaction was the tanks fault.

I'm convinced people who think this is a good idea in a DF group don't understand what a pally loses by being glad, or are just hopelessly sticking to a tired point that you're not allowed to abandon a group no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Edellis

This is why I don't even queue for Main Scenario anymore. I'd rather gain my tomes the slow way then deal with the types of assholes that Scenario Roulette spawns.

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I have noticed that the assholes in the Scenario groups (The ones that want to rush/higher geared/etc) make the MOST mistakes I have ever seen. It makes me laugh so hard when I watch them eat the floor.

I think it should be up to the individual how they play their class/job so long as they can do what needs to be done. If they could successfully tank as a GLD then so be it o.o

So many people seem utterly convinced that there's only one possibility for anything: if you're this class/job you must wear this exact gear with these exact melds and stand in this exact place to use these exact abilities at these exact times. I think it actually improves everyone's ability to play if they get out of that cookie cutter mentality. Throwing in something different but workable not only makes him as a tank think differently about what he's doing (and thus better understand his role and how to achieve what is needed), it might also give other players in the party ideas about their own roles that hadn't previously occurred to them because they'd never been in an unscripted situation before. It's being able to work without a script that marks the truly good players and the players who are first to take down new bosses and the like. They don't have a script to work from, they make it up as they go along, and they find what works by experimentation and flexible thinking. Fitting in the cookie cutter definitions only gets you so far.

PS. I'm not claiming to be a good player (I strongly dislike combat in general and tend to avoid it unless it's to see the story), just recognising traits that make others good and lamenting the player base's reluctance to do much of anything without following a guide. It was the good old days when you made mistakes and learnt from them.

Dude like seriously, all those words while ignoring the reality that there is no new ground to be broken, the jury is out that there is no reason to glad tank at level 50. Successfully tanking as a glad is not just the tanks burden but the healers and dps since they have to watch threat. You're imposing on other players and it's selfish, do it with your friends not a pug.

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Originally Posted by Farah

Ran Aurum Vale one time with an archer. Party asked them why they werent on bard, and they didnt even know there was a job system. Was kind of funny and sad at the same time.

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This is because the game doesn't tell you anything about half the stuff in the game. Want to get a job? Google it. Want to meld materia? Google it. Want to know how to unlock all the other dungeons that you haven't unlocked? Google it.

It's something they really need to fix.

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Originally Posted by Langureion

The only benefit of lv50 class without job is that you can cross any skills, unlike job which is limited to certain classes.
But you also lost the job skills.
Not about right or wrong.
But simply another way to play the game.

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A Gladiator without the soul of the Paladin can't use their tanking stance. That seems pretty wrong to me when he's responsible for tanking in a group.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

a Dragoon, a lancer tank doesn't sound all that far-fetched at all. If a lancer tank can't generate as much enmity as a healer, then the healer should temper how much healing they are putting out. They gave us this convenient enmity meter in the form of a 'red light, green light' system, easy to see if you're about to pull aggro or not.

I applaud those that want to try different ideas, test what works and what doesn't and go with their guts. If only we could all be so open-minded.

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Temper their healing? So, the healer should just let the Lancer tank die if he's about to get aggro? The fact is, if you're in a group, there is absolutely zero reason to not have your job crystal equipped. Every single class in the game is less efficient without it. If you want to mess around in a FC group, go for it. But keep it out of pugs.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

This is because the game doesn't tell you anything about half the stuff in the game. Want to get a job? Google it. Want to meld materia? Google it. Want to know how to unlock all the other dungeons that you haven't unlocked? Google it.

It's something they really need to fix.

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There is a new Red quest marker in the same place that you turn in your last lv 30 class quest.

The lv 19 story quest introduces you to melding.

Most optional dungeons are picked up in places where you are doing story quest, sans Cutter's Cry, I'll give you that one.

SE could help newer players by displaying pop-up "Help" messages about melding, Jobs, and new dungeons as you reach the appropriate level, but I also feel that players are perfectly capable of finding out about these things if they weren't always in such a rush when leveling, skipping through quest text, and ignoring new quest markers.

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Originally Posted by Farah

Ran Aurum Vale one time with an archer. Party asked them why they werent on bard, and they didnt even know there was a job system. Was kind of funny and sad at the same time.

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Whilst it makes an amusing story and some people will feel good at laughing at a noob .. please remind where the GAME tells you about JOBS, as I don't recall an NPC with a quest which showed me where the Bard trainer was, nor for that matter the one for WHM.

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Originally Posted by Odett

The lv 19 story quest introduces you to melding.

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Yes, but you don't get the Melding skill from it and when running through the main story I'd argue the vast majority hitting 19 on their first class will have the necessary DoH skill to get the quest that gives you that.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

Whilst it makes an amusing story and some people will feel good at laughing at a noob .. please remind where the GAME tells you about JOBS, as I don't recall an NPC with a quest which showed me where the Bard trainer was, nor for that matter the one for WHM.


Yes, but you don't get the Melding skill from it and when running through the main story I'd argue the vast majority hitting 19 on their first class will have the necessary DoH skill to get the quest that gives you that.

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As soon as you're done with the lv 30 quest, a new one unlocks where the Guildmaster is, guiding you to the BRD trainer, same with all other jobs.


The goblin informs you in the quest text that you need to be a DoH in order to meld materia yourself, meaning that only someone who didn't read quest text would not know that players are able to meld materia.

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Originally Posted by Langureion

The only benefit of lv50 class without job is that you can cross any skills, unlike job which is limited to certain classes.
But you also lost the job skills.
Not about right or wrong.
But simply another way to play the game.

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No.. It is just wrong

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Originally Posted by Figgleleaf

I'm happy to see this is somewhat viable, since I enjoy the Gladiator class, but don't want to be a paladin. I can't imagine I'll get to EX modes like that, but who knows?

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It is not viable.


Reason for both the above statements? Shield Oath.

If your just playing dps (IE your doing HM Titan and your raid geared tank friend is carrying your artifact geared self through.) then sure go for it. If your tanking anything this is not viable

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

No.. It is just wrong

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Not always. There are certain exceptions where taking off your job crystal is arguably better, like getting in a low level queue and reverting to LNC so you can use Raging Strikes because you don't have Blood for Blood yet. I think someone in a previous page has also stated this, but if you do Titan HM as WAR and there is a PLD tank, it's better to run as MRD for that extra DPS.

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Originally Posted by Odett

like getting in a low level queue and reverting to LNC so you can use Raging Strikes because you don't have Blood for Blood yet.

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Well played. Though 100% unnecessary you bring up a valid point.

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Originally Posted by Odett

I think someone in a previous page has also stated this, but if you do Titan HM as WAR and there is a PLD tank, it's better to run as MRD for that extra DPS.

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I stated this. Read the rest of the post.

Haha, I knew I had remembered someone posting that. Looks like I need some sleep.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Shield Oath.

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This. The difference between having this and not was night and day once I learned the ability. Threat generation became a joke and my incoming damage was noticeably lessened.