PvP is not fun.

In it's current state I believe that PvP is far more frustrating and bogged down by poor design choices than it is fun. More often than not I feel like I'm battling with the terrible clunky mechanics than I am the other players.

I've played as every role possible and I found absolutely none of them enjoyable. I feel that some major changes need to be made to PvP in order for it to feel better.

Some changes I'd make:

- Remove sprint from PvP
Chasing a sprinting target as melee is annoying and not even remotely fun in any sense of the word. I know about weapon throw but that's purely a band-aid fix that wouldn't even be necessary if sprint wasn't allowed in PvP.

- Casting isn't interrupted simply by being attacked
This change would make it so that interrupts and other CC has to be used intelligently and decisively rather than currently where you can mindlessly lock down a caster simply by running a train on them

- Overall reduction of damage and/or increased health pools
People can die way too quickly in the average match before things can even get interesting.

- Removal of positional requirements on attacks
Currently playing a class without positional requirements is far beyond frustrating. With how mobile PvP is in its current state coupled with how inconsistent latency is it's a nightmare trying to reliably fulfill positional requirements on attacks.

All of the above in tandem with the painfully long queues and the ridiculous grind to rank 30 is enough to nearly put me off the PvP in this game for good. I feel like this game needs to take some notes from WoW on how to do PvP right as in it's current state it's not worth playing, in my opinion. I'd avoid it at all costs if I had known what I was getting into from the beginning but now that I've started I feel forced to complete the grind to rank 30.

How about not having PvP stuck inside a single, boring, tiny arena? Arenas are a passé, lazy design.

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. PvP just isn't for you.

When you have two parties that actually know how to play the PvP, you end up with interesting matches that are relatively long. You just need to learn how to play a DRG in PvP and you will see that it is actually pretty fun.

Also, there is a PvP forum fyi

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. PvP just isn't for you.

When you have two parties that actually know how to play the PvP, you end up with interesting matches that are relatively long. You just need to learn how to play a DRG in PvP and you will see that it is actually pretty fun.

Also, there is a PvP forum fyi

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It's like you didn't even read my post.

I completely agree. Especially with sprint. It's hard enough to melee a moving target due to latency, (I'm playing on a US server from Japan, bad ping) but when they pop sprint, forcing you to also use sprint (And then invigorate), it makes the PVP experience less than fun.

But by far, my biggest annoyance is playing as a BLM (Or SMN, I suppose). I detest the fact that casting is interrupted if your target moves out of your frontal arc. Even if no one is attacking you, your spells don't go off if your target is smart enough to move every once in a while. I'm basically forced to sprint about like a ninny, casting scathe until swiftcast is ready. And that 100% interrupt by physical attacks seems a bit unfair.

GCD, instanced and the worst possible serverside delays Ive witness in 21st century gaming. The fact is that anyone interested in PvP in any type of serious or meaningful gameplay never bought this game in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Amused

words

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I did, I'm just dismissing it because all of those things are important aspects of PvP that actual PvP players know how to handle. However, I'll bit.

- Weapon throw is not a "Band-aid fix" it was a conscious addition by SE as a counter to sprinting. Sprinting is a legitimate tactic for casters to escape from attackers.

-If attacking wasn't enough to interrupt casting, Sleep and SMN in general would be 100x more powerful in PvP than they already are.

-If you use PvP gear and the morale system, you will see a big increase in your survivability in PvP and longer matches as a result.

-Finally, there's a PvP action that waives the positional requirements on attacks for some time.

These are all things you would know and understand if you took the time and effort to learn how PvP is played. What, do you want everyone to just stand still and throw attacks at each other?

It's not, there's two f2p games that have better pvp. DCUO and Neverwinter though I haven't played them in awhile so not sure if it's still good. PvP wasn't meant to be serious in this game hence why everyone is call "Fresh meat".

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Originally Posted by Amused

In it's current state I believe that PvP is far more frustrating and bogged down by poor design choices than it is fun. More often than not I feel like I'm battling with the terrible clunky mechanics than I am the other players.

i cant agrue against this. the design for pvp is very clunky.

I've played as every role possible and I found absolutely none of them enjoyable. I feel that some major changes need to be made to PvP in order for it to feel better.

Some changes I'd make:

- Remove sprint from PvP
Chasing a sprinting target as melee is annoying and not even remotely fun in any sense of the word. I know about weapon throw but that's purely a band-aid fix that wouldn't even be necessary if sprint wasn't allowed in PvP.


hell no. without sprint, caster will be at a terrible disadvantage.it is bad enough that melee dps have weapon throw and can use all their attacks with no delay (minus server delay).such a change would be the end of casters players

- Casting isn't interrupted simply by being attacked
This change would make it so that interrupts and other CC has to be used intelligently and decisively rather than currently where you can mindlessly lock down a caster simply by running a train on them
again no. there is a reason why casters has a 100% interrupt. without this you could force cast and nuke all the enemy team in front of you. in fact, i did with my blm sometimes with surecast and equanimity .with this change, melee players might as well not even bother as casters dps and especially HEALERS would just either keep using their spells and finish the other team

- Overall reduction of damage and/or increased health pools
People can die way too quickly in the average match before things can even get interesting.

i agree with this, although i suggest to make all matches the to have the best 2 out of 3.

- Removal of positional requirements on attacks
Currently playing a class without positional requirements is far beyond frustrating. With how mobile PvP is in its current state coupled with how inconsistent latency is it's a nightmare trying to reliably fulfill positional requirements on attacks.

again i agree

All of the above in tandem with the painfully long queues and the ridiculous grind to rank 30 is enough to nearly put me off the PvP in this game for good.


the grind to level rank 30 is not ridiculous. it is the only thing in this game that represent actual god forsaken effort. if you dont like that, then you to pve, where you can faceroll the highest gear by doing nothing of real effort. rank 30 is where the people who actual stuck it out with pvp. it takes dedication to get that get. it supposed to be hard to get.

I feel like this game needs to take some notes from WoW on how to do PvP right as in it's current state it's not worth playing, in my opinion.
considering the pvp is taking notes DAOC pvp, it may feel like it bad, but that is of course your opinion.

I'd avoid it at all costs if I had known what I was getting into from the beginning but now that I've started I feel forced to complete the grind to rank 30.

well what did you expect pvp to be like? a mini game well everyone plays for funizes? no, pvp like pve, has to have a grind and a reason to grind for the BiS gear. without this, pvp would be useless as no one wants to waste time doing something with no impact on your character

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answers all in red. pvp in this game is good...not great but good. it is amazing how balance pvp is now.

yes pvp atm balanced, especially in the 30/40 bracket. pvp isnt for everyone, just like binding coil of bahamut isnt for everyone.

I don't outright agree with anything in the OP but I can see where they're coming from. PvP is a bit of a shambles right now but I still enjoy it, only thing that bugs me is the long queues and my lack of understanding about PvP in general.

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Originally Posted by Doo

It's not, there's two f2p games that have better pvp. DCUO and Neverwinter though I haven't played them in awhile so not sure if it's still good. PvP wasn't meant to be serious in this game hence why everyone is call "Fresh meat".

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TERA and RIFT both have pvp that are leaps and bounds better than FFXIV.

Hell. The pvp in this game is so bad, that FFXI 1v1's are better.

or... Or.. OR!!!!!! Make it turn based! how awesome would that be?

I'm so glad combat was changed to accommodate such a crappy system. Great job Yoshi-S(uit)!

You'd have to redo almost everything about the game to have PVP be enjoyable.
But if there is one thing they could do, is making it a larger zone and cutting down CC a lot (Nobody likes CC in PVP).

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Originally Posted by Kiyouma

or... Or.. OR!!!!!! Make it turn based! how awesome would that be?

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yes or can we turn it into a card game that way I will not have to chase laggy healers that use sprint.

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Originally Posted by WiseWolfHolo

yes or can we turn it into a card game that way I will not have to chase laggy healers that use sprint.

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Reminded me of this:

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7905693952/hA8D134D2/

1) You cannot remove sprint from pvp with no supplement. I would murder every single healer that enters the frey. Instead, remove sprint and add a “dash” with a shorter duration.

2) Casting needs to be interrupted. There are too many crowd controls attached to castings, and they need to be contained by non-casters. They could implement some sort of interruption resistance similar to status resistances…I could see that.

3) Will wait for future content to comment.

4)Not sure about this. Needs elaboration. I think you meant “with positional requirements”.

*Takes notes from WoW, don’t take notes from WoW….oui <--not directed at you op.

There is nothing about the current state of pvp I find unbearable. It’s either from playing the unpatched version, or from thousands of hours of Demon’s Souls/Dark Souls/DC Universe Online.

PVP in all MMO is a joke, just play a fighter.

It's fun to me

checkmate

I was really looking forward to PvP in FFXIV lol. With as much as Yoshida hyped it up in the past I was thinking it would be pretty fun. I don't think I've ever seen PvP this bad in an MMO. I've simply opted out of participating in it at all. It's terribly clunky and I pretty much agree with all of your points.

PvP was never meant to exist in this game, it was forced in to cater to a very very very small crowd. You either like it or don't care, it won't ever change.

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Originally Posted by Blazer

TERA and RIFT both have pvp that are leaps and bounds better than FFXIV.

Hell. The pvp in this game is so bad, that FFXI 1v1's are better.

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I'd take this PvP over the kraken club fest FFXI was anyday...

PVP will never be fun. it will always be a battle of mathematics. No one plays PVP in order to have any form of realistic or creative battle.
We are very sorry, but this is the pit at the bottom of the depths of humanity.

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Originally Posted by Huginn

PVP will never be fun. it will always be a battle of mathematics. No one plays PVP in order to have any form of realistic or creative battle.
We are very sorry, but this is the pit at the bottom of the depths of humanity.

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Possibly the most useless and off base comment i've ever read.


As far as the PvP in this game specifically, it's shockingly shallow and it's the most gear dependant healer zerg i've played in any MMO. I can't for the life of me understand why they thought it would be a good idea to start with a small 4v4 arena and no matchmaking. Since day 1 it has been geared 3-man groups rolling PUGs all day.

They couldn't even handle balancing the abilities and mechanics with 1 healer, 1 tank, and 2 DPS so their 'solution' was to only allow 1 healer, 1 tank, 1 melee DPS, 1 ranged DPS. Yes, everyone knows the best MMO PvP involves extremely restricted class comps and allows the players wearing BiS PvP gear to obliterate noobs joining their first game.

I just finished the Rank 30 grind (almost entirely solo queueing) that has taken me just shy of 2000 games. Looking back I don't know how I put up with everything for so long. Now that the carrot on a stick is gone I have no desire to PvP at all until they release actual battlegrounds and matchmaking.

There should also be some sort of morale sync so a level 30 premade vs a sub level 20 isn't faceroll.

Removing GCDs and implementing moderate CDs to all skills would also be a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by astrobearthe2nd

pvp in this game is good

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http://puu.sh/6YtJ4.jpg

Might as well just bump the op's threads together since the copy and paste is just oh so important.

Couldn't even rewrite it after some people have made suggestions?


oui:confused:

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Originally Posted by Ninix

http://puu.sh/6YtJ4.jpg

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i don't why but this picture had me laughing 5 minutes straight.take my like.

Small group arena pvp is always a niche mode because the most hardcore organized groups who play it 24/7 dominate so hard they end up obliterating anyone who just want to have a few fun games here and there. If SE wants popular pvp they need objective based pvp with a minimum of 10 or so people per side.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

-If attacking wasn't enough to interrupt casting, Sleep and SMN in general would be 100x more powerful in PvP than they already are.

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Not really commenting on the other issues, but really - you honestly prefer being able to just mindlessly whack at players and interrupt, rather than having to plan and time one's usage of interrupt abilities? One is fire and forget; the other requires the tactical implementation of strategy. I enjoy PvP in other MMOs, but this part of XIV's PvP really does set it apart... and not in a good way.

It's not even Drama Central. They need to fix it!

PVP with GCD was never fun in the first place.

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it's shockingly shallow and it's the most gear dependant healer zerg i've played in any MMO

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This. Want to pvp ? how about pentameld your full pvp lvl 90 gear first and then you ll see.

I passed on it just because of that ... but still very much waitin frontlines.

Meanwhile, BF 4, BF 4 :p

I can't decide what is worse, the combat with the gcd or the PVP in this game? They should promote the devs that designed the crafting in this game and let them work their magic on the combat. This game has the best crafting I have ever seen in an mmo but not sure what they were thinking when they decided combat should be .......... Wait for it...... Wait for it...... This sloooooooooooow.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

PVP with GCD was never fun in the first place.

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Agree x 1 million.

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Originally Posted by Athol

I can't decide what is worse, the combat with the gcd or the PVP in this game? They should promote the devs that designed the crafting in this game and let them work their magic on the combat. This game has the best crafting I have ever seen in an mmo but not sure what they were thinking when they decided combat should be .......... Wait for it...... Wait for it...... This sloooooooooooow.

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Contrary to what you believe, not everyone wants an action game.