It is what it is... The simple truth

I have read and read and read some more. Every line, every post, every argument and it all seems to boil down to the same simple statemen. "SE please fix the economy" but all in all there is a simple point that everyone seems to be missing, ( if this dosent apply to you then I apologize) SE has no controle of the economy, they CAN NOT fix it. No matter what they emplemented it all boils down to the ones who controle the economic flow are the players. Shure SE can put in taxes, fees, and what ever other sinks yo can think of but it's still the players screwing themselves. The ones with an abundance of cash will still be crashing the market, the ones with out still struggling to make a buck, and the stupid who just spam cheep crap to take up space.

If you want to fix the economy start looking for ways to do it yourself...

I'm going to fix one thing from your post which would make it a little more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Thebob89

The ones with an abundance of cash will still be crashing the market

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The ones with less cash will still be crashing the market.

Why? Because people with less cash want cheaper prices. This means that people cant sell higher, and in turn, makes selling items less viable. It's a vicious circle, meaning people can't make money, therefore they are unable to spend it.

But you can't force people to want to pay more, so really IDK what can be done about it.

The reason I say its people with money crashing the market is because they have little to no value of the currency. They are willing to cut their prices to nothing just to keep other people from making a profit in the hopes of knocking them out of the market. While it is true that consumers with little money can't buy, people with with little money can not produce goods to sell. If they can't sell they get desperate, and in that desperation either under cut to major extremes or seek another route of sell.

They need to add crafted gear to the game, if you want to be a better healer/dps/tank you need better gear, right now they are giving us gear dropped in dungeons, if they changed the loot from dungeons to crafting mats instead of complete pieces of gear, you would need more mats to complete the piece of gear you want, then add that you can put some materia to the piece of gear, you would need materias to improve your gear stats, that would give a lot more of activity to the market, they need to start with that and improve the bonuses that the materia can give to the gear right now the bonus is very low, making the system obsolete.

Only the vey top tier gear should be crafted. Having most gear being only obtainable through crafting will create monopolies and only players who have the gil could afford it

True, having all the best gear obtainable through crafting would make the game a little too much like real life...

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Only the vey top tier gear should be crafted. Having most gear being only obtainable through crafting will create monopolies and only players who have the gil could afford it

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That would really just be a patch for the major issue here. See with the current set up once the end game players have that equipment why would they bother farming for more. If anything making equipment breakable would do far more for the demand of materials. Of course give the equipment duribility, make them reparable, but for each repare cut the total duribility by half. That would cause a constant need for new equipment which in turn causing the need for a flow of currency and materals. As it stands right now there isn't a need for currency to obtain or re obtain end game items in turn removing the need for crafters. The only profitable selling points at the moment are materials for craftng and the few items needed for trade craft leves(sp) which also proc my seconed point the target of economic repair. If the leve items were regulated more adamantly by players the increase in the flow of funds would only bost the economy even if just slightly and would be at the least a step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Thebob89

[...]SE has no controle of the economy, they CAN NOT fix it.[...]

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SE IS in control of the economy! They can adjust drop rates, they create items and they created/designed the market. As long as they adjust the item drop rates by adding a 9-times-drop which former was a single drop, the will shutter the ground they built.

To be clear.
My oppinion is that the econimy is still good, decreasing but good. The only thing missing is demand! Crafters have nearly no demand so do gatherers.

Radical changes: (short term)
- Kill materia system as it is
- insert iLvl 90 gear craftable with other stat mixtures
- lower the HQ rate to around 50-75% with all X-skills available

Changes (long term):
- materia system as it has been in 1.x
- dungeon drops rare/ultra rare
- dungeon chests have optional loot, (good green stuff but not BiS)

Consider rare materials drop in dungeons or from NM's. We have a incapacitation skill system somewhere in the cellar which could be dug out again.

Honestly the current system leaves little to no controle of the economic structure in the hands of the development team. While it is true that they have to power to influence various points in the system, the current structure is placed in the hands of the players. I beleave that it was designe with that intention, but... Most players are not interested in market manipulation. It is after all only a game, more people are interested in dungeon grinding as opposed to grinding for days on end to level trade classes.

Now, I'm not disputing the fact that SE can do things that would make the market more influential, they can't make people spend money without a grand over haul of the entire marketing system. Don't get me wrong tho, there are ways to make the current system more desirable, they to be quite honest would do more to piss off the majority of the target consumers than to actualy add substance to the game, or is there something I'm missing?

I feel like I should clear someting up here. When I said that SE could not fix the economy it was not ment as they lack the means to do so. It was ment that as a business they would suffer a Loss in income if they were to take many actions tword the stabilization of the market. While there are several plates that see the issues and see ways that could potentially relieve them, if SE were to take actions to appease thr small percent it would no doubt put more consumers off. They would risk losing more potential paying players by "fixing" the economy as opposed to the few who see need for change. No facts, just a simple observation.

Of course they can control the market with various methods if they really wanted to.

You seem to be forgetting the one simple golden rule in life.

The one with the gold MAKES the rules.

Simple.

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Originally Posted by Velev

Of course they can control the market with various methods if they really wanted to.

You seem to be forgetting the one simple golden rule in life.

The one with the gold MAKES the rules.

Simple.

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Weather or not they have the ability isn't the question, the question is is appeasing a minute player base while enraging the larger worth the net loss. It's a question of weather or not the actions would cause the larger player base to pull their subs. Honestly, if it were me I would gladly loose the business of 100 if it kept the business of a thousand.

The popular choice may not always be the right one, but without the masses the tower will fall.

So we get to a point where SE has or has not to risk something.

My observation, and so my oppinion, is, they do not risk because they are frightend. That, with history in mind, is not plain wrong but I believe they made decissions while they built 2.0 and can't move away from those.

That old giant SE has been surprised at launch and reacted because of that surprise pretty slowly. (adding server capacities)
I believe they do it again with economy/crafting.

While they try to turn in the right direction their numbers diverge even more and so is turning even more harder...

How exactly could the player effect the economy in any way?

It's SE that made Philos drop like candy, making it extremely easy to gear up in iLvl70.
It's the gilsink houses that SE designed that have left people resistant to the idea of parting with their money to save time.
It's linear progression of item level that has left acquiring your relic weapon an extremely easy process, and Extreme Primals only slightly harder, meaning anyone with working fingers can get a free top tier weapon.
It's Crystal Tower handing out iLvl80 and 90 gear that overshadows anything crafter can make, which also impacts every other material and DoL leading up to it.
And on and on.

I'm not saying all of those weren't positive changes for the game itself, but don't say that SE can't or won't step in to "fix" the economy, because they've been messing with it since the first patch hit, and if 2.2 only allows crafters to make iLvl90 gear when the new hotness is iLvl110 or whatever, nothing will change.

I think SE need to realize that a major part of the game that I and many others enjoy is the joy of making money in game, working the market, selling items for large amounts of Gil and watching ur fortune grow has a thrill to it. Dungeons and endgame trials etc are not or should not be the main focus of the game. Now they definitely can change the economy if they wanted, I do agree with the previous poster about them being afraid what with what happened in 1.0 , but if they don't start showing signs of expanding this game and Fixing the economy(it does need fixing) then they will start losing players like me and many others I'm sure, dungeons get boring with time, amassing a fortune etc doesn't

Gil hunters are a minescule portion of the player base. If they increase the difficulty in acquiring top teir equipment then they are more or less sending a big f you to the larger player base. Not saying that added content won't move to lessen the strain on the economy but, and this is my main point, making things more difficult for the casual player base will only frustrate an allready shaky build. The largest portion of players have little to no interest in craft grinding. There is a reason that they have more or less let the economy go. Even still with the over all ease of capping a crafting level is rediculous. Two weeks of heavy grinding and you can cap out any single trade. I managed to rase weaver by 20 some odd levels in two days. Then there's still the mass of people with already mastered trade crafts that will still just flood the matket with those same top teir items, price cutting, and re spark the entire cycle.

Not only will that run this loop right back to where it started but it will cause the larger player base of casual player to complain about the difficulty of acquiring said items. SE will add more dungeon drops to shut them up and them you will be right back here pitching a fit. It's a vicious cycle that leaves a bad tast in every ones mouth, and honestly it's easyer to ignore a half dozen threads about a crappy economy than ten times that about the game being to difficult for the casual crowd.

On a side note, the housing system is a joke. Houses have no real substance other than boosting player vanity. It has no cotribution to the substance of the game and is a rediculous ly over priced hang out for the few players that can actualy aquire them. In my opinion they should have spent their time focusing on pvp rather than fancy boxes. At least then the amount of work they put into it would be worth it. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice little distraction, but with the houses being open to the public then all it takes is one group to buy a house for a swarm of squatters to move in and just make their selves at home.

Don't rmt bots control the economy?

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Originally Posted by heheesyo

Don't rmt bots control the economy?

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Only if the players do business with them :p

If players didn't do business with rmt bots, there would be no rmt bots. That's the sad truth here. True there's only so much se can do, but I think dealing with bots should be the #1 priority to fix the economy. Blaming everything on the community is pointless. Players are going to do whatever they're going to do. Just like the economy of a country. People will never stop undercutting to make a profit. It's simple supply and demand. And when people are cheating to control the supply like bots do, it all comes crumbling down. This is why it's so frustrating to see characters I've had on my blacklist for rmt since launch still running around in the world.

You can point fingers at the player base all you want. But there is a deeper reason that the economy is broken on every single server other than every single servers community sucks.

Also about the housing squatters. Fc leaders do have the option to lock the doors to non fc members. And yes, right now housing is vanity only. But se plans to implement changes for that in the near future. Also, I'm in an fc with less than 20 active members and we managed to scrounge up enough for a small with little to no effort. We just waited for prices to go way down. It was less than 200k per fc member.

I'm just going to admit defeat, there isent a point In Pushing the issue further. Even if there were something that could be done by the players there is no one willing to pu forth an effort... But it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by heheesyo

Also about the housing squatters. Fc leaders do have the option to lock the doors to non fc members. And yes, right now housing is vanity only. But se plans to implement changes for that in the near future. Also, I'm in an fc with less than 20 active members and we managed to scrounge up enough for a small with little to no effort. We just waited for prices to go way down. It was less than 200k per fc member.

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Just a quick question tho, how would anything that SE dose make housing anything more than vanity? I mean anything they do to a fc house can be done in any building in the game on a fc chat... Or even a party chat for that matter. There's a fc chest in every major city, and asside from text based role play there really dosent seem to be any point in having a house.