A few thoughts on Primals.

Hello, being the special snowflake I am, I just had to share this thought I thinked.

Each of the primals we have fought so far, Garuda. Ifrit, and Titan, relate to agressive beast tribes in Eorzia.

There are 4 (now 5) primals that we know of and have confirmed.

Garuda - Ixal
Titan - Kobold
Ifrit - Amalj'aa
Ramuh - Slyph

Soon we will have:
Leviathan - Sahagan

And we have fought G-T-I plenty of times now, and have seen images of the Levi fight.

Shiva could be on the horizon, and I would guess she is the primal for the Giants/Gigas. Which would be interesting since there are 3 warring tribes of giants.

Of the sentient and spoken races, there are still:
Tonberry(Unlikely to have a primal, see below)
Qiqirn
Mamool Ja
Goblin
(Also the Demons)

This means there are few more options for primals in the future.
Diabolos as the primal for Qiqirn? But we lack the traditional Light and Dark elements in FFXIV.

But we also have fewer elements in FFXIV, namely Fire (Ifrit), Ice(Shiva), Wind(Garuda), Water(Leviathan), Lightning(Ramuh), Earth(Titan).

Most consider Bahamut an elder primal, and he is traditionally unaspected as far as element.

With all of this, I am left with two questions.

While there are more beast races, what will they do since we lack the elements in game to match up to them?

And,

Why do you all want to fight Ramuh so much?

Dude is just chilling in the woods minding his own business. With the primals from the agressive races it makes sense, but the Slyph are a bunch of floating cabbages happy to stay in the woods, and as long as no one wants to make a big batch of coleslaw it wouldn't really make much sense from a story point of view for Ramuh to do anything other than he is currently doing.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

This means there are few more options for primals in the future.
Diabolos as the primal for Tonberries? But we lack the traditional Light and Dark elements in FFXIV.

But we also have fewer elements in FFXIV, namely Fire (Ifrit), Ice(Shiva), Wind(Garuda), Water(Leviathan), Lightning(Ramuh), Earth(Titan).

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Each element comes in umbral and astral-aspected flavours (for example, within The Twelve Halone is associated with astral-aspected ice and Menphina with umbral-aspected ice) so that opens things up a bit.

. . . Also, not entirely sure if Tonberries would count as a beast tribe, given the info you get about them in the Scholar quest-line.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

. . . Also, not entirely sure if Tonberries would count as a beast tribe, given the info you get about them in the Scholar quest-line.

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A good point on that one, I had not done the Scholar quests so i googled some spoilers on it. Editing OP.

You conveniently forgot about Good King Moogle Mog XII...
There's more to Primals than crystals/elements...

Good King Moggle Mog isn't actually a Primal though, but he has some similarities with them. He's more an aetheric entity - a literal 'myth made manifest' by the power of belief.

Also it was confirmed that Leviathan is the Primal of the sahagin. That fact has long been known, and the main scenario actually states that plainly.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

And,

Why do you all want to fight Ramuh so much?

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yo cause %*$# Ramuh. I don't like the cut of his jib. So he's gonna get the business end of my fire chain.

Actually - if you go through the current lore. The current primals that we have fought are considered "corrupted" primals. Something about the process the beastmen use to summon them seems to corrupt their essential essence. As such you could make a strong argument that all of the current primals represent a corrupted aetheric entity manifestation. Because this aetheric summoning proccess can apply to ANY entity there is no limit to these corrupted fights. That said i would LOVE to see some story around interactions with uncorrupted manifestations of the primals.

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Originally Posted by searsay

That said i would LOVE to see some story around interactions with uncorrupted manifestations of the primals.

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That would be great. We actually had a little of it in the main scenario iirc (right after defeating garuda, i don't think there are crystals and the primals just respond to their devotes' prays). Sadly seeing the way the primals work, I don't think they would be able to maintain their appearance in material world without the corrupted Aetheric process.

So if we ever interact with them, it would be in the Hydaelyn way of acting. *BAM* Echo is stomping your mind and you see iffy right before your eyes

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

yo cause %*$# Ramuh. I don't like the cut of his jib. So he's gonna get the business end of my fire chain.

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Some men just want to watch the world burn.

I'm not sure if the Mamool Ja, Goblin and Qiqirn actually have a Primal associated with them or not. These tribes are mostly vagabonds without any central structure about them, apart from having small encampments spread about the area. Qiqirns and Goblins are both passive and aggressive towards the adventurers, while the Mamool Ja are hired mercenaries.

That's not to say these beastmen tribes don't have Primals, but so far the game lore has not given any information about them if they do exist. Being that there seems to be no religiously zealous groups among those beastmen, it could stand to reason that the Ascians may try to influence them to summon one, but the beastmen have to be educated and convinced there is actually one.

I don't think the latter scenario will come into play though based on the events throughout the Primal Ex storyline when the Ascians note that the increased powers of the Primals aren't strong enough to stop the adventurers and they need to come up with another course of action.

I think it's less of a case of the Primal being the patron deity of a specific race and more that those races have "chosen" to worship that primal. I mean, they temper/touch/whatever normal people and make them into thralls so it's not only beastmen that worship them.

So theoretically we could have Kobolds and Goblins that worship Ifrit or Ixali and Mamool'ja worshipping Titan, but the vast majority of those races have already been claimed by their current god.

P-R-I-M-A-L-S.
There you have it!

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I think it's less of a case of the Primal being the patron deity of a specific race and more that those races have "chosen" to worship that primal. I mean, they temper/touch/whatever normal people and make them into thralls so it's not only beastmen that worship them.

So theoretically we could have Kobolds and Goblins that worship Ifrit or Ixali and Mamool'ja worshipping Titan, but the vast majority of those races have already been claimed by their current god.

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Its more that Primals are aetheric beings that take on the form and traits of something believed in by the group of people using the summoning ritual with a large amount of aether crystals. That's why the Twelve can be summoned, and why King Mog could be summoned. I'm sure if enough people truly believed in Santa Claus, had a stockpile of crystals, and did the summoning ritual, they could summon Santa Claus as well. Granted, he'd start tempering people and telling them to bring him more crystals to eat.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

Its more that Primals are aetheric beings that take on the form and traits of something believed in by the group of people using the summoning ritual with a large amount of aether crystals. That's why the Twelve can be summoned, and why King Mog could be summoned. I'm sure if enough people truly believed in Santa Claus, had a stockpile of crystals, and did the summoning ritual, they could summon Santa Claus as well. Granted, he'd start tempering people and telling them to bring him more crystals to eat.

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I guess my point is that they are not tied to race, it just kinda ended up that way. And your reason helps support that.

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Originally Posted by Kazamoto

Why do you all want to fight Ramuh so much?

Dude is just chilling in the woods minding his own business. With the primals from the agressive races it makes sense, but the Slyph are a bunch of floating cabbages happy to stay in the woods, and as long as no one wants to make a big batch of coleslaw it wouldn't really make much sense from a story point of view for Ramuh to do anything other than he is currently doing.

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If you do the quests in the sylph area or even the beastman quests you will know the answer. Each beastman tribe seems to be split into 2 factions. One is willing to be friendly the other wants you to die in a fire.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

I'm not sure if the Mamool Ja, Goblin and Qiqirn actually have a Primal associated with them or not.

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They don't, but they will. I recall Yoshida mentioning in an interview that while they're nothing more than mercenaries at the moment, through the course of patches they may grow in number and eventually summon their own Primal.

I imagine it will be a development similar to Good King Moogle Mog; they have a creation myth they believe in that we just haven't heard, somehow they summon it, once they've summoned it they become far more zealous like the regular beast tribes. That is, unless we stop it before it gets out of hand like with GKMM.