Primals and Beasttribes (spoilers?)

First of all, do I understand this correct: Primals (Ifrit, Garuda and Titan) are summoned by their appropriate Beasttribes (Amalj'aa, Ixal and Kobolds). They have been summoned for the 3rd time so far and nothing has been done about it from either of the Grand Companies? Can anyone refresh my memory as to why?
Especially now after the Garlean Empire was defeated.

Normal people aren't immune to tempering. So if the GC send people after the Primals they just strengthen the army they face.

Secondly most of this was explained in the Story.

Resources, Will and Knowledge.

Resources: Manpower, Gils and Materials.
Will: Willpower or does not care enough
Knowledge: Beastman stronghold locations, numbers, tactics.

Take a good look at all 3 city state. LL they have the fish peeps and Kobos to deal with. Even they have the Will and Knowledge they can't deal with 2 fronts.
Ul'dah have everything. But they wouldn't do it since everyone is backstabbing each other.
Gridania...well... Resources. Need to ask elementals. Willpower, mainly conscripts, ask elementals. Knowledge, ask elementals. Elementals = mainly neutral, so nothing done.

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Originally Posted by WellGramarye

Normal people aren't immune to tempering. So if the GC send people after the Primals they just strengthen the army they face.

Secondly most of this was explained in the Story.

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I was referring to dealing with the Beasttribes, not the Primals themselves.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

Resources, Will and Knowledge.

Resources: Manpower, Gils and Materials.
Will: Willpower or does not care enough
Knowledge: Beastman stronghold locations, numbers, tactics.

Take a good look at all 3 city state. LL they have the fish peeps and Kobos to deal with. Even they have the Will and Knowledge they can't deal with 2 fronts.
Ul'dah have everything. But they wouldn't do it since everyone is backstabbing each other.
Gridania...well... Resources. Need to ask elementals. Willpower, mainly conscripts, ask elementals. Knowledge, ask elementals. Elementals = mainly neutral, so nothing done.

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I guess that explains it a bit, thanks. Though all GCs did unite against the Garlean Empire. Guess that's a one time thing?

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

I was referring to dealing with the Beasttribes, not the Primals themselves.


I guess that explains it a bit, thanks. Though all GCs did unite against the Garlean Empire. Guess that's a one time thing?

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Not really, they will get together whenever there is a bigger dog coming into their zone.

Ala Mhigan is one such dog. They are like the Greek city states. Killing one another till the Persians came knocking.

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

...nothing has been done about it from either of the Grand Companies? Can anyone refresh my memory as to why?

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Because there's little they can do.

The grand companies are all recovering from massive losses from the calamity(for an example of how badly they are hurt, Limsa is only JUST nearing completion of its first ship built since the destruction and Limsa is considered a navel powerhouse) and they're beset on all sides by multiple foes.

Most are facing more than one beast tribe, the primals, the empire, infighting among their own people, monsters of all sorts, and a myriad of other localized problems like the situations in Copperbell mines or Haukke Manor. On top of this are all the usual things a nation has to worry about like feeding its people, crime, and natural disasters. And this is just a sampling of the many problems that take up the Grand Companies time, manpower, and resources. The primals are a terrifying problem yes, but its all they can do to hold the line against everything they're facing.

Though, they are doing something about the Primals. They're hiring adventurers like yourself to deal with them :P

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

Though, they are doing something about the Primals. They're hiring adventurers like yourself to deal with them :P

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Exactly, if you think about it, the summoned Primals are stronger every time they return. You would assume that at some point you wouldn't be able to slay them any more...
So, the resources are everywhere but on the things that might destroy everything at some point. What do you get from the quest for defeating Titan again? :P

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

You would assume that at some point you wouldn't be able to slay them any more...

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Its hard to say. The power of the Primals summoned is directly proportionate to the amount of crystals used. So we could say that there power is limited to the beast tribe's ability to gather crystals.

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So, the resources are everywhere but on the things that might destroy everything at some point.

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:P I dunno, I think most things that I listed could destroy the city-states if left unchecked. The Primals are most defiantly a huge threat (and some more than others), but they're just one of many.

It's never really explained how the Company of Heroes were able to fight and defeat both Titan and Leviathan without the power granted by the Echo to prevent tempering but a screenshot from the Titan CS in 1.0 shows 2 magical staves being used:

http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...1e01d02ed3.jpghttp://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...1dec4bcb4b.jpg

Now whether this is truly the Company of Heroes is a theory of it's own but why would they being used them in an effort against Titan unless it somehow worked? Course none of this may be relevant to the current 2.0 story, where things are heading.

As WellFooled said the Beast tribes needed crystals to summon the Primals, an explanation for the Sahagins and Leviathan was that the Sahagins lacked the supply of crystals to summon Leviathan so that's why he has been "dormant." But as we're about to see Leviathan is coming, probably thanks to the Serpent Reavers and their raidings.

Well, I remember it was stated in ARR repeatedly, that the Grand Companies has been successfully defeating the Primals simply through sheer brute force - with a natural cost in lives. If I remember rightly, that was also how the Company of Heroes also did it - effectively zerg rushing Titan and Leviathan.

Of course, the three nations know only too well that such a strategy is not only morally wrong, it's also completely unsustainable, hence why they ended up putting such a huge dependency on the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, and especially the player, due to the Echo's natural immunity to Primal influence (namely, tempering). The Scions really are the only hope they have of effectively dealing with the Primal threat.

EDIT: after looking through my screenshots for the lead up to story-mode Titan, I just realized the Company of Heroes actually revealed a possible hint at to exactly how they were able to best Titan at least - it seems like they had an Archon with them (or at least, a 'Sharlayan' with them - warning, possible spoilers ahead):

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Originally Posted by ARR main scenario quest 'Lord of Crags'

Riol: "Years ago, when we was weighin' up how to get to Titan, one of our scouts stumbled across this beastmen aetheryte, see..."
Riol: "Eh? What's that look for? Not familiar with 'em?"
Y'shtola: "He speaks of an unamplified aetheryte which has been claimed by a beast tribe. Lest you wonder, there is no fundamental difference between such aetherytes and those which you have used on countless occasions <insert player character name here>."
Riol: "Well, if it isn't the Sharlayan lass. Welcome back."
Y'shtola: "Forgive me for interrupting. I had planned to await your report, but I succumbed to curiosity."
Y'shtola: "The tunnels under O'Ghomoro form a bewildering labyrinth that no outsider has ever fully explored. How the Company of Heroes managed to navigate it is a mystery I have long pondered."
Riol: "Ha! Give us a bit of credit love! We weren't daft enough to try goin' in the front."
Riol: "The kobolds are always diggin' new tunnels, an' fillin' the old ones with traps. One wrong step, an' the next thing you know, ye've got a hundred tonzes o' rock on on your noggin'. Suicide to even try, see?"
Riol: "Funny thing is, the kobolds didn't seem to have no trouble findin' their way 'round-an' it was that as got us thinkin'. I mean, the O'Ghomoro Mines are like a bleedin' city aren't they? An' gettin' around in a city that big would be a right pain in the arse if you didn't have an Aethernet, wouldn't it? So it stood to reason that the kobolds must have one, didn't it?"
Y'shtola: "Hmm, even if there were aetheryte shards in the depths of O'Ghomoro, you would have needed to attune yourselves to them before you could identify their signatures within the Lifestream."
Riol: "Ah, well, that's where yer wrong love. We had this Sharlayan bloke to help us, see. Delivered us right into Titan's bed chamber, he did."
Riol: "I don't rightly know how he did it, but I do remember him sayin' it weren't nothin' any Sharlayan scholar worth her salt couldn't manage."
Y'shtola: "...Did he now? Hmph. Locating a beacon in the abscence of a known signature might be possible if the aetherytes in question happen to be... Ah yes. But in order to guide a traveller to said beacon safely, a second party would be required... Hmmm."
Y'shtola: "It is possible-in theory at least. Yet I cannot say until I try. Plainly, all will depend on whether I am 'worth my salt'."
Riol: "Oh, you are lass! Don't you worry about that! Have a bit o' faith in yerself!"

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After reading that, at first I thought it was might have been Louisoix as the mysterious Sharlayan, but reading the dialogue which came after that scene, it appears it might have actually been none other than Papalymo who was responsible):

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Originally Posted by ARR main scenario quest 'Lord of Crags'

Y'shtola: "So this is the aetheryte that the Company of Heroes used to gain access to Titan's sanctuary."
Y'shtola: "Hmm, it is as Papalymo speculated."
Y'shtola: "In it's present state, this aetheryte's signal will not be strong enough for our purposes. I may, however, be able to use my own energies to to amplify it. Alas, the task will monopolize my attention for the duration."

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Of course this dialogue just stated that the Archons helped the Company of Heroes gain access to Titan and not necessarily helped them defeat him, but the possibility is worth thinking about. ;)

"It weren't nothin' any Sharlayan scholar worth her salt couldn't manage" does indeed sound like something Papylamo would say but I wonder why Papylamo wouldn't be the Archon to Limsa instead of Y'shtola. He would seem to know more about Titan and would have this connection to the Company of Heroes, but instead was sent to Gridania with Yda. Also I don't think the Company of Heroes merely tossed bodies at Titan and Leviathan until they died, depending on how many sacrifices it took to kill 1 of the Primals they would have a hard time recruiting to kill the other. Also they're mercenaries, they're hired coin, they wouldn't sacrifice their lives regardless. If the Company of Heroes is anything like the Darklight Raiders, it would be smaller numbers...similar to our 8-man parties. So I think at the most the Company of Heroes would be 6 or 8 members...after all split the coin 6 or 8 ways is better than splitting it 50 ways. I know those screenshots are from something that is no longer relevant, but maybe it's a magic or magic tool based off the Allagan technology -- a tool (staves) used to help shield against the tempering.