Full i90 PLD should not get gibbed by Twintania from full HP.

And it happened to me 2 times today. I was topped off, food buff, 7043 hp 600 parry, Allagan shield.

Death sentence > plummet > auto attack all in less than .5 seconds dead.

And warriors don't even have to worry about it, 8700 hpololol

Did you have Stoneskin + Aldoquim and Eye for an eye? Maybe one of your cooldowns or Virus on Twin? Also I've seen DS hit WARs for 10k unmitigated before so I don't see why this is a PLD exclusive issue

Sometimes you eat the bear. Sometimes the bear eats you :)

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Did you have Stoneskin + Aldoquim and Eye for an eye? Maybe one of your cooldowns or Virus on Twin? Also I've seen DS hit WARs for 10k unmitigated before so I don't see why this is a PLD exclusive issue

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Happened each time on the last conflag when cds were down. I am thinking I was getting adlo about half the time on time, for some reason my death sentence macro gets off when he starts spitting conflags, by about 5 seconds.

But it works like a charm before conflags, don't know why. Possibly due to bomb + conflag taking that extra time. I got a:

/wait 23
/p DS in 5 seconds.
/wait 1
/p

macro setup. Timing just gets off /shrug

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Happened each time on the last conflag when cds were down. I am thinking I was getting adlo about half the time on time, for some reason my death sentence macro gets off when he starts spitting conflags, by about 5 seconds.

But it works like a charm before conflags, don't know why. Possibly due to bomb + conflag taking that extra time. I got a:

/wait 23
/p DS in 5 seconds.
/wait 1
/p

macro setup. Timing just gets off /shrug

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Timing can be very offset depending on how fast or slow your DPS is going. But if it's happening during Conflags, then I'd recommend running into the conflags when you have sufficient health (as a WHM it's annoying seeing the tank run in with low HP then die as soon as conflag breaks =/)

As for a macro, try this

/p Twintania casting Death sentence <se.4>
/wait 32
/p Death Sentence incoming! <se.6>

Usually when my tanks run this it made it easier to get SS up. And if they do it at the right time (start of the cast) it worked BEAUTIFULLY

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Timing can be very offset depending on how fast or slow your DPS is going. But if it's happening during Conflags, then I'd recommend running into the conflags when you have sufficient health (as a WHM it's annoying seeing the tank run in with low HP then die as soon as conflag breaks =/)

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Well one big problem we had was dps was too high, so conflag was dropping right as the death sentence cast hit me.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

And it happened to me 2 times today. I was topped off, food buff, 7043 hp 600 parry, Allagan shield.

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Only relevant part here is the HP. Everything else is meaningless. You can't rely on parry or blocking one way or the other -- it's an inevitability that you fail to block or parry and take the full damage.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

And warriors don't even have to worry about it, 8700 hpololol

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Except that WAR take 25% more damage than PLD, so it takes almost the exact same amount of damage to kill them (WAR has 85 more base HP).

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Only relevant part here is the HP. Everything else is meaningless. You can't rely on parry or blocking one way or the other -- it's an inevitability that you fail to block or parry and take the full damage.



Except that WAR take 25% more damage than PLD, so it takes almost the exact same amount of damage to kill them (WAR has 85 more base HP).

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Well my i90 FC mate is a warrior and we talked after my groups T5 run today, and he told me he simply doesn't have issues with getting gibbed. (inner beast)

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Well my i90 FC mate is a warrior and we talked after my groups T5 run today, and he told me he simply doesn't have issues with getting gibbed. (inner beast)

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Because he's using mitigation and you're not. Are you seriously complaining to everyone here that you used no mitigation and all and died, and that your WAR friend is overpowered because he... used mitigation?

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Because he's using mitigation and you're not. Are you seriously complaining to everyone here that you used no mitigation and all and died, and that your WAR friend is overpowered because he... used mitigation?

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All my mitigation has cooldowns. Inner beast has a 2.5s cooldown. So yes.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Because he's using mitigation and you're not. Are you seriously complaining to everyone here that you used no mitigation and all and died, and that your WAR friend is overpowered because he... used mitigation?

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If Twin has Virus and the tank has SS + Aldo + Eye (and the deye debuff is on Twin) He shouldn't need to use CDs (although for the next DS it'd be a good idea to use mitigation since lolantibody)

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

All my mitigation has cooldowns. Inner beast has a 2.5s cooldown. So yes.

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Lol, no, it doesn't. It takes at least 20 seconds to build enough Wrath for IB using combos. So no, you still don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

If Twin has Virus and the tank has SS + Aldo + Eye (and the deye debuff is on Twin) He shouldn't need to use CDs (although for the next DS it'd be a good idea to use mitigation since lolantibody)

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No, he shouldn't. I'm sure it was totally unmitigated, and/or he didn't even have full HP and just chanced it hoping for a critical block or parry. Got what he had coming for trying to be lazy with mechanics and overgear it.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Lol, no, it doesn't. It takes at least 20 seconds to build enough Wrath for IB using combos. So no, you still don't know what you're talking about.

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Yes and Death Sentence is every 30 seconds there Einstein. Do the math. All my cds are over a minute.

Lol @ the irony of your post.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Yes and Death Sentence is every 30 seconds there Einstein. Do the math. All my cds are over a minute.

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Oh? I never could have guessed, since I have both jobs capped and you don't even have Warrior unlocked. I guess I should expect such ignorant rudeness from someone here to complain about dying for doing absolutely nothing in a fight.

//EDIT:

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

How can one overgear for a fight tuned for i90? Lol.

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That's exactly what I'm saying. He's complaining that he dies for just sitting there and eating the biggest hit in the most punishing fight in the game at this time, like that's a problem.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

...overgear it.

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How can one overgear for a fight tuned for i90? Lol. BESIDES having the i95 weapon

Back on topic: Talk with your healers/BLM/SMNs to see what can be done. If both healers don't have eye up your BLM/SMN can do it quickly, your SCH can solo Virus. If WHMs can't get SS up in time, get them ready to pre-cure the damage with Cure 2 (my SS build can only heal 800s after Infirmary) and make sure the SCH has at least 1 AF stack for Lustrate (the BEST spell to heal after DS's debuff)

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Oh? I never could have guessed, since I have both jobs capped and you don't even have Warrior unlocked. I guess I should expect such ignorant rudeness from someone here to complain about dying for doing absolutely nothing in a fight.

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How am I being ignorant? Warrior can mitigate every single DS. Maybe you should go back to dps or something. For having both unlocked, you sure know nothing about the mechanics of them.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

How am I being ignorant? Warrior can mitigate every single DS. Maybe you should go back to dps or something. For having both unlocked, you sure know nothing about the mechanics of them.

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He can mitigate it with a 20% which brings him to EQUAL your PLD constant mitigation. Warriors get 1 shotted all the time, even with inner beast, 8k hp means nothing compared. Inner beast also doesn't always last for all 3-4 hits you take around the time of death sentence unless you time it perfect everytime, which isn't hard but isn't doable everytime without slowing your dmg rotation to avoid GCD lockout.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

He can mitigate it with a 20% which brings him to EQUAL your PLD constant mitigation. Warriors get 1 shotted all the time, even with inner beast, 8k hp means nothing compared.

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Maybe you forgot 18% stoneskin on 7k hp vs 8700? And 25% lustrate.

Warrior simply scales better with WHM and SCH. And over 10k HP?

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Maybe you forgot 18% stoneskin on 7k hp vs 8700?

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When Thrill of Battle is up SS becomes godly. Ever seen stacks in Ifrit Ex just not happen? ;p

Soooo Warriors are op now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

He can mitigate it with a 20% which brings him to EQUAL your PLD constant mitigation. Warriors get 1 shotted all the time, even with inner beast, 8k hp means nothing compared. Inner beast also doesn't always last for all 3-4 hits you take around the time of death sentence unless you time it perfect everytime, which isn't hard but isn't doable everytime without slowing your dmg rotation to avoid GCD lockout.

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Gist of it is, I wrote the book on this design ages ago. Real business is that he's just whining about dying because he can't autopilot the fight while playing the easier tank.

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Originally Posted by Imapooonu

Soooo Warriors are op now?

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According to bad paladins, yeah. Shocker, I know.

//EDIT: Also, OP once again fails to realize that Stoneskin and Lustrate are nearly identical on both tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Gist of it is, I wrote the book on this design ages ago. Real business is that he's just whining about dying because he can't autopilot the fight while playing the easier tank.



According to bad paladins, yeah. Shocker, I know.

//EDIT: Also, OP once again fails to realize that Stoneskin and Lustrate are nearly identical on both tanks.

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Just no.

Again the irony of your post cracks me up every time, keep them coming.

Out of all of that data, none of it takes in consideration Thrill of Battle, ability cooldowns, and healer abilities that scale with HP.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Just no.

Again the irony of your post cracks me up every time, keep them coming.

Out of all of that data, none of it takes in consideration Thrill of Battle, ability cooldowns, and healer abilities that scale with HP.

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Tbf at least Gamemako posted something tangible, you're claiming that War's don't have to worry about DS based on their "hpololol" and because some random War told you he doesn't have to worry about DS.

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Originally Posted by Grembo

Tbf at least Gamemako posted something tangible, you're claiming that War's don't have to worry about DS based on their "hpololol" and because some random War told you he doesn't have to worry about DS.

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I didn't say warriors don't have to worry, I said HE doesn't have to worry about DS.

And if you cannot see "tangible" in 18% stoneskin on higher HP, and 3 25% lustrates every minute on higher HP, you're blind.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

I didn't say warriors don't have to worry, I said HE doesn't have to worry about DS.

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You sure about that?

*looks at op

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

you're blind.

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It's a possibility....

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

And warriors don't even have to worry about it, 8700 hpololol

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Haa, apparently i'm not that blind eh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grembo

You sure about that?

*looks at op



It's a possibility....



Haa, apparently i'm not that blind eh.

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I was referring to my friend I spoke to:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Well my i90 FC mate is a warrior and we talked after my groups T5 run today, and he told me he simply doesn't have issues with getting gibbed. (inner beast)

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Right below it, same page, I guess you are blind, because that is what I meant.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

I was referring to my friend I spoke to....

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Nah, i'm pretty sure your friend is a singular person (i'm a nice guy so i'll assume this friend is real) but here you are look ....and i'll highlight it for you..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

And warriors don't even have to worry about it, 8700 hpololol

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Skip around it if it makes you feel any better but what you're saying is pretty clear to me, especially since you've moved on to ranting about Stoneskin and Lustrate being 2% more effective on War's now.

Let it all out bro, let it all out.

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Originally Posted by Grembo

Nah, i'm pretty sure your friend is a singular person but here you are look (i'll highlight it for you....).



Skip around it if it makes you feel any better but what you're saying is pretty clear to me, especially since you've moved on to ranting about Stoneskin and Lustrate being 2% more effective on War's now.

Let it all out bro, let it all out.

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Your math is as good as your comprehension. 2%? LOL! I don't know if you're trying to make yourself look bad, or are really trolling me.

I haven't done Coil yet so forgive me if I am missing something, but wouldn't/couldn't you save your defensive cool downs for death sentance, since that is Twintania's major mechanic? WARs can do that without thinking about it with Inner Beast, I only have PLD at 30/BRD and WAR at 50, surely there is something you can save to mitigate DS.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

Your math is as good as your comprehension. 2%? LOL! I don't know if you're trying to make yourself look bad, or are really trolling me.

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Why would you even bring maths into it when my numbers had no context :/

Eh, that reminds me of post #24 in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Grembo

Why would you even bring maths into it when my numbers had no context :/

Eh, that reminds me of post #24 in this thread.

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Am I supposed to look? Too busy...laughing.

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Originally Posted by Tinoris

I haven't done Coil yet so forgive me if I am missing something, but wouldn't/couldn't you save your defensive cool downs for death sentance, since that is Twintania's major mechanic? WARs can do that without thinking about it with Inner Beast, I only have PLD at 30/BRD and WAR at 50, surely there is something you can save to mitigate DS.

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As a PLD you cannot mitigate every DS after you have used all of them. Honestly only 3 cds even mitigate DS for PLD, rampart, sentinel, and convalescence. (Not taking into consideration saving HG for snakes)

(I solo tank T5)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

As a PLD you cannot mitigate every DS after you have used all of them. Honestly only 3 cds even mitigate DS for PLD, rampart, sentinel, and convalescence. (Not taking into consideration saving HG for snakes)

(I solo tank T5)

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I see now. I have heard that fight is tough, but more and more people are clearing it everyday, so I am sure there is a reasonable strategy out there for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

As a PLD you cannot mitigate every DS after you have used all of them. Honestly only 3 cds even mitigate DS for PLD, rampart, sentinel, and convalescence. (Not taking into consideration saving HG for snakes)

(I solo tank T5)

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Can you cycle them then have someone cast virus on 4th one and sacred soil-efe on the fifth then cooldowns again?

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

Can you cycle them then have someone cast virus on 4th one and sacred soil-efe on the fifth then cooldowns again?

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I am pretty sure the only 2 times I got gibbed they were up. Maybe just really unlucky RNG like someone stated earlier. I make it clear to do this every run, but I will make sure this is going on again, thanks.

This guy is either willfully ignorant or a troll. Either way, not worth responding further. Quick note for anyone reading who is confused about Lustrate, the value is essentially identical on the two tanks. If we say PLD has 7000 HP, then you would have a ratio of 7085/7000-1 = ~1.2% advantage for WAR (nearly zero). Actual numbers vary based on race/clan choice, of course. Shield Oath and Defiance bonus are functionally identical -- +25% eHP -- and do not affect the relative value of Stoneskin or Lustrate between the two tanks.

It's simple. OP is a liar and a terrible one at that.

I know exactly what situation he's talking about. When Twintania moves from first fireball on the party to the second neurolink position, she'll cast death sentence depending on where she is in on her rotation. Naturally she's too far out of range to use it and when she does catch up, she'll queue all her attacks at once, Death Setence, Plummet, auto attack. Now here's the problem. OP is very bad at his class and didn't use a cooldown, thus got insta-gibbed. If he doesn't want to communicate with his healers/team that he has no cooldowns for that particular death sentence (which is generally impossible near the START of the fight) that's on him.

My brother, who is our Coil main tank, has died to this quite a few times until we beat it into his head to save Rampart and Bulwark for it or Sentinel. If he doesn't have it then I, the SCH, will use Virus. It's called, "coordination".



edit:

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(I solo tank T5)

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Now this is a different can of worms.

You got all that gear but haven't figured out how to tank Twintania yet?

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

(I solo tank T5)

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We don't, and we still manage to kill it. We've never had issues with tank being oneshotted when tanking with 2 palas.

Have fun with being oneshotted, bye. Pointless thread whining about pointless issues.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

//EDIT: Also, OP once again fails to realize that Stoneskin and Lustrate are nearly identical on both tanks.

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They are mathematically 100% identical when you consider eHP. Tank balance is very good in this game post-2.1.