I miss the release-state FFXIV

Say what you will of FFXIV at release, there was still a lot of stuff to do, be it in the form of crafting new items or grinding with huge parties on efts and raptors in many different areas. There was a certain newness which September brought with it that has since grown stagnant. At release, there was actually something to strive for.

And perhaps the first version update (slated under Tanaka's leadership) would have provided players with a wealth of new content to explore. And perhaps not. But one thing is definitely for sure: there has hardly been a single change since release that has aided the game in terms of content (besides the NMs). For example, these fetch -ahem- I mean "side-quests" might as well not even be in the game, in my opinion. For all the good they do, they might as well have not even implemented them. They aren't fun and exciting, nor are they natural. My life is certainly none the richer for having experienced them. (And if the rewards are anything to go by, my pockets are none the richer either).

There's a difference between content for content's sake and content that people actually enjoy. FFXIV at release had many a problem. The market wards were a drag and the UI was a logistical nightmare. But there was still enjoyable content nevertheless. And most importantly, it was content with longevity. I guess it all comes down to new horizons. If there is nothing new or unknown on the horizon, people won't enjoy themselves nearly as much as if there is something new out there.

It's sad that, even with FFXIV's gradual improvement, the game still seems to sink further and further into the abyss.

And now I wonder whether it was in SE's best interest to focus almost obsessively on revamping the battle system, to the exclusion of everything else, especially when it is clear that retaining a sense of long-forgotten "newness" is more fundamental to a player's enjoyment than whether or not he/she can AFK while in combat (autoattack).

i got bored reading your post but FFXIV was very fun at first. everything was new, people everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

i got bored reading your post but FFXIV was very fun at first. everything was new, people everywhere.

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My post needed more content I guess.

Were you able to keep a straight face while typing that out?

whats wrong with his post? I agree, the game at start was fun. Its after I did 1 million leves i wanted to drop my character into the ocean and never look at a computer again.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Were you able to keep a straight face while typing that out?

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Had to use search function to find this.

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Originally Posted by Joeking

FFXIV is no laughing matter.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Say what you will of FFXIV at release, there was still a lot of stuff to do, be it in the form of crafting new items or grinding with huge parties on efts and raptors in many different areas. There was a certain newness which September brought with it that has since grown stagnant. At release, there was actually something to strive for.

And perhaps the first version update (slated under Tanaka's leadership) would have provided players with a wealth of new content to explore. And perhaps not. But one thing is definitely for sure: there has hardly been a single change since release that has aided the game in terms of content (besides the NMs). For example, these fetch -ahem- I mean "side-quests" might as well not even be in the game, in my opinion. For all the good they do, they might as well have not even implemented them. They aren't fun and exciting, nor are they natural. My life is certainly none the richer for having experienced them. (And if the rewards are anything to go by, my pockets are none the richer either).

There's a difference between content for content's sake and content that people actually enjoy. FFXIV at release had many a problem. The market wards were a drag and the UI was a logistical nightmare. But there was still enjoyable content nevertheless. And most importantly, it was content with longevity. I guess it all comes down to new horizons. If there is nothing new or unknown on the horizon, people won't enjoy themselves nearly as much as if there is something new out there.

It's sad that, even with FFXIV's gradual improvement, the game still seems to sink further and further into the abyss.

And now I wonder whether it was in SE's best interest to focus almost obsessively on revamping the battle system, to the exclusion of everything else, especially when it is clear that retaining a sense of long-forgotten "newness" is more fundamental to a player's enjoyment than whether or not he/she can AFK while in combat (autoattack).

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The issue according to SE was investors pushing the release of the game. Then later on they said they something else. Then after another reason. Anyways they just kept making excuses over and over again, but the truth is SE thought they could get by with a unfinished product. Then after release they understood that they have to listen to there fans now because 12 was a sucky ff, but most fans were willing to say Hey just one screw up it happens then 13 came out it was a screw up and the fans said well... I'm sure they'll make up for it next time, but heres the thing SE liked 13 so they said oh despite our fans hating it we love it so we don't care. Then they release 14 and think people will just grind and enjoy it and while people are leveling there classes they can just fix the game through patches, but they now understood that if you don't listen you will DIE.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

There's a difference between content for content's sake and content that people actually enjoy. FFXIV at release had many a problem. The market wards were a drag and the UI was a logistical nightmare. But there was still enjoyable content nevertheless. And most importantly, it was content with longevity.

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So, you're saying that they removed content? Or simply that the longevity of the initial content has since worn out? How long did it last to qualify for this title?

I didnt get a cool map, did you actually get a cool map?

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Originally Posted by Joeking

Had to use search function to find this.

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I'm literally crying.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I'm literally crying.

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You would.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

You would.

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It's like watching a f-

No. I said I would not use any more analogies.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I'm literally crying.

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I cant tell if that's good or bad..

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

It's like watching a f-

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f-???? I'm dying from the suspense...

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Originally Posted by trinta

So, you're saying that they removed content? Or simply that the longevity of the initial content has since worn out? How long did it last to qualify for this title?

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Well they certainly removed the driving impetus behind grinding parties/Pick-Up Groups. There is almost no incentive to group-grind when guildleves yield three times as much SP if not more.

But I can agree that there is some inconsistency to what I was saying.

There is an expiry date to any content, even content with longevity. And most people wouldn't even call grinding content anyway. But I think if SE had persisted with new avenues of gameplay and features (like the player run companies) and expansions into new zones/areas, then I'm sure that would have benefitted the game more than a new combat system within the confines of the same, tired game.

What the hell is wrong with side quests? Nothing at all and they are not meant to be the core of this game, there IS no core to this game yet, we're still waiting on it. That's the crux of all our frustrations right now, and instead of giving us this long awaited content (Companies!! Chocobos ect..) They are like heyyyyy the combat sucks let's change it all, pushing everything else back.

Don't be hating the tiny bit of content we do have :S

I actually like grinding with friends better then leves. I'm just going to throw that out there.

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Originally Posted by Morticous

I actually like grinding with friends better then leves. I'm just going to throw that out there.

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Me and Half my linkshell actually agree with this statement

I sorely miss that state too, it was good times compared to what is left now

It was a good times because people had hope. No one realized that the game was a shallow grave with no content and broken mechanics. Most people just though "oh this has to get better sometimes down the road." Most dint believe that SE would release the game with nothing but behest and leves.

I'd say my life was better for the sidequests. Most of them were very interesting lore wise. That's all I ask for, some art to experience. But yeah I agree with you. Another contradiction isn't what you wrote - but about how Yoshi-P put aside the community by not working on content - while focusing on battle revisions that were voted on by the community. It would have been better if it were all or nothing. Tanaka would have given us content first and fixes second, as it is we're getting well, nothing really. lol

If the game was released with alot of content including dungeons, AFs, multiple NMs, etc etc, just things to do, people would have been more forgiving with combat and all the other problems. They would've cringed and complained but they would've grinded and paid for the game just so they can get to their own "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" whatever that would be for each of them. Problem is that there is no "pot of gold", nothing but hitting lvl 50 feels like an accomplishment and even satisfaction of that is short lasting.

i personally liked the direction the game was going at launch, was lot of problems but now it's not even the same game we bought. is a shame cause i liked the way the new battle system was even though it had many problems to be fixed. now it's leves leves leves witch ='s fail fail fail. also do miss the new fresh mmo smell already, is like some took a shit in a new car.

Consider this:

The PS3 version was originally slated to be released by now. This means that the original content roadmap was laid out in place upon launch. Now since the launch had so many technical issues, the team was forced to work on those instead of following the content roadmap.

Fast forward to February-March.

The polls are completed, and the fans have spoken. The game needs a rework from the ground up and we've been promised most of it. Here is where the groundwork just starts to finally get released. After changing team leads and the game's direction, all the content originally planned gets pushed back, and even re-envisioned. It's no wonder that nearing the end of June that we don't have the content yet. The focus changed, instead of content, we are getting rework done from the ground up. The content gets pushed down the line as the frame needed fixing first. You can't have both, you just can't.

The team working on FFXIV is likely less than it was say, a year ago. Most developers move their staff on to new projects, keeping a core group to work on the rest of the game for years to to come. Slowly, they move staff around to other projects. This puts a limit to what type of content gets released eventually. Right now FFXIV probably has a sizable group due to the revamp and team structure changes, but unfortunately a team smaller than it's original development.

In the end, our content will come, once SE has finished rebuilding the frame of the game. Then they can get to work on this "theme park" as they like to call it, by adding in all the good rides.

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

Consider this:

The PS3 version was originally slated to be released by now. This means that the original content roadmap was laid out in place upon launch. Now since the launch had so many technical issues, the team was forced to work on those instead of following the content roadmap.

Fast forward to February-March.

The polls are completed, and the fans have spoken. The game needs a rework from the ground up and we've been promised most of it. Here is where the groundwork just starts to finally get released. After changing team leads and the game's direction, all the content originally planned gets pushed back, and even re-envisioned. It's no wonder that nearing the end of June that we don't have the content yet. The focus changed, instead of content, we are getting rework done from the ground up. The content gets pushed down the line as the frame needed fixing first. You can't have both, you just can't.

The team working on FFXIV is likely less than it was say, a year ago. Most developers move their staff on to new projects, keeping a core group to work on the rest of the game for years to to come. Slowly, they move staff around to other projects. This puts a limit to what type of content gets released eventually. Right now FFXIV probably has a sizable group due to the revamp and team structure changes, but unfortunately a team smaller than it's original development.

In the end, our content will come, once SE has finished rebuilding the frame of the game. Then they can get to work on this "theme park" as they like to call it, by adding in all the good rides.

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a theme park needs rides, ultimately it has occured to me this is the mistake they made.

Reworking the battle was a false lead. People have said battle drives an MMO/rpg but really thats just not true, its actually the world, and the content that drives any RPG mmo or not. There are a plethora of korpgs with compelling battle systems, its not enough, its not what makes people stay. Think about one of the most popular ff, ff6, the battle system was by no means the greatest battle systems, it was simple, turn based, with a couple of bells and whistles, but the story, the charachters, the world the variety, this is what made it entertaining.

FFXI, i played it a lot, and i enjoyed it, but honestly the battle was one of the least enjoyable activities in the game. Oh i enjoyed leveling up, and getting good exp, but that was because i wanted to progress, to see more of the world, to see the story, to fight the strong NM, to walk into the depths of hell, and to see how powerful my charachter could become. This is the real core of an RPG and lack of content kills this. The frame of battle they built was actually more than strong enough to carry this game. Tweaks and balances could have solved all issues. But lack of content, lack of progression, no new places to go, not that much story to see, the pittance of armors we have available, almost all weapon skills looking the same, the game encouraging you to fight the same exact leve over and over. this is the real problem.

EQ is still being played today, its not because the combat is great. People still play UO its not because of the combat.

Content, progression, a varied and interesting world, this is the core of an RPG and an MMORPG

I have a feeling no matter what this battle system does, at the end of the day till we get real content, this game will feel like a f2pmmo, because in all honesty, its not combat that sells an MMO its peoples connections to the world, and the desire to see their charachters grow and progress. the battle is just a vehicle to that.

this game will never be ready until it can offer these things to players.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

.....That's the crux of all our frustrations right now, and instead of giving us this long awaited content (Companies!! Chocobos ect..) They are like heyyyyy the combat sucks let's change it all, pushing everything else back.

Don't be hating the tiny bit of content we do have :S

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Yuh! this reminds me~ they posted the companies page on the lodestone many many moons ago. And yet we have not seen or really heard anything else about it.

Kinda saddens me @.@;;

Unless these new dungeons will be incorporated with it, which i think they prolly will. Due to the "newspaper article lore thingies".

I still have hope.....just.... once they fix the core aspects of the game as 1.8 might just do, I am hoping they have a tidal wave of ready content waiting to sweep us off our feet. Saying that tho, this is SE and it might be more than likely no content is ready and we get the drip drop updates we have been getting since Feb.

the remedy for mmo addiction

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Originally Posted by giftforce

Well they certainly removed the driving impetus behind grinding parties/Pick-Up Groups. There is almost no incentive to group-grind when guildleves yield three times as much SP if not more.

But I can agree that there is some inconsistency to what I was saying.

There is an expiry date to any content, even content with longevity. And most people wouldn't even call grinding content anyway. But I think if SE had persisted with new avenues of gameplay and features (like the player run companies) and expansions into new zones/areas, then I'm sure that would have benefitted the game more than a new combat system within the confines of the same, tired game.

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If you cant figure out Grinding is actually better then leves then there is no hope for you. I can think of multiple camps in game with 6+ ppl that I can hit 30k/hr easy which is about the same as leves provide. Not to mention if you are leveling certain crafts these camps will undoubtedly help you in the long run at higher levels.

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Originally Posted by Greencactaur

The issue according to SE was investors pushing the release of the game. Then later on they said they something else. Then after another reason. Anyways they just kept making excuses over and over again, but the truth is SE thought they could get by with a unfinished product. Then after release they understood that they have to listen to there fans now because 12 was a sucky ff, but most fans were willing to say Hey just one screw up it happens then 13 came out it was a screw up and the fans said well... I'm sure they'll make up for it next time, but heres the thing SE liked 13 so they said oh despite our fans hating it we love it so we don't care. Then they release 14 and think people will just grind and enjoy it and while people are leveling there classes they can just fix the game through patches, but they now understood that if you don't listen you will DIE.

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SE already stated they dont have investors to answer to, which is why they are able to keep it F2P at this time. Its all upper management that pushed it.

The game was fun for the first few hours as it was new. Then you started to look around, do the same things over and over, repeat the same leves.. You change things up and level another job/craft and realize its the same thing over and over... then you log off and do something fun.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Me and Half my linkshell actually agree with this statement

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Grass Raptors and Mountain Piestes near Camp Dragonhead (Coerthas) are great for grinding groups. I got from 48-49 in just a couple hours I think with our group and we had a lot of fun doing it too!

Grinding is much more enjoyable when you're with a great group with good conversation.

I miss release state FFXIV but only in the sense of wonder of what was to come and the potential for it's future. The reality isn't really what I had hoped for but I can still see that faint glimmer of hope and potential in the future for FFXIV, it's all down to SE to deliver it now.