Whats with "other" tanks trying to steal hate?

As the question asks whats with these other tanks in CT trying to steal hate from the MT. they go as far as to provoke the boss off the MT for no reason.

First boss no one spoke up at all who wanted to MT when i asked, So i pulled the boss got in to position then i have a warrior tank and another pLD standing right on top of me. Using provoke on CD the whole fight trying to get agro off me. Finaly im like fine you tank, and they run off after skeletons with the boss. So i have to provoke it back in to place. They did the same thing with the last boss, I guess they are just trying to troll, but i think this is just so annoying.

I love watching all the other tanks do that when I enter CT. It happens every time and I honestly have no idea why. Another weird thing is that every tank seems to think they're responsible for all the skeletons and must press the Provoke button as often as possible. It's either everyone is trolling or there are just that many bad tanks out there, I can never tell which it is.

If u call for MT.. just do ur job.. if another tnk is tryin to rip hate from u and succeeds then move away and the grp failing will be on tht tnks hands not urs.. its not ur job to compete with other tnks over hate.. so dont fill bad.

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Originally Posted by Genyi

If u call for MT.. just do ur job.. if another tnk is tryin to rip hate from u and succeeds then move away and the grp failing will be on tht tnks hands not urs.. its not ur job to compete with other tnks over hate.. so dont fill bad.

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They're ripping hate with Provoke, which is a tank's "Give me that hate now gdi!" move. For a tank to use it on purpose after somebody called MT, that's messed up.

I agree to be honest, I let the girls fight over MT on first boss and i stand there like a good person and wait for the skeles to pop up. It spawns, i throw a circle of scorn flash combo and start running. im HALF way to the end and some retard taunts and toss's and runs to in the opposite direction. Makes no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Mailstrum

As the question asks whats with these other tanks in CT trying to steal hate from the MT. they go as far as to provoke the boss off the MT for no reason.

First boss no one spoke up at all who wanted to MT when i asked, So i pulled the boss got in to position then i have a warrior tank and another pLD standing right on top of me. Using provoke on CD the whole fight trying to get agro off me. Finaly im like fine you tank, and they run off after skeletons with the boss. So i have to provoke it back in to place. They did the same thing with the last boss, I guess they are just trying to troll, but i think this is just so annoying.

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I always shake my head at other tanks that do this. It's like every one of them is trying to be the biggest dog in the dog park. Seems to improve after a wipe usually.

Well DPS take pride with their dmg/parse result, tanks take pride in stealing hate and whatnot. They are just really silly when they use provoke for that...

I've dealt with this myself. Really frustrating to see it. Generally if I see another tank grab something after I've shield lobbed and provoked it, I just let the skeleton go and look for another. Too much time can be wasted trying to get one when others will spawn.

Sometimes I'll go and help other tanks burn the mob down when they get it into position. It makes me wonder how many of the tanks who do this are new to CT. Constantly I see tanks far better geared than I am not turning the Valefors so that tail whip doesn't hit the party, or the eyes don't hit everyone with level 5 petrify. The list goes on. It just really boggles my mind why having a hate procuring fight is so important to others. It just causes all manners of havoc and chaos.

And yet when King Behemoth comes up they all just stand there shuffling their feet before picking a tower.

I've grouped with other Paladins who...

A. Immediately pulled Valefor and shoved its ass right into the squishies faces.
B. Aggro'd and DPSed skellis down right next to dragon, or furiously engaged w/ provoke and multiple shield lobs when I've already got it halfway to the back platform.
C. Become mute when it's time to tank adds before boss two.
D. "DPS" the whole time on boss two, even when they aren't ghosts.
E. Suddenly become extremely efficient and fast at FF14 when selecting a tower, appearing as if by magic by their chosen position before everyone else is even at the boss.
F. Stand in the back during final boss, baiting hand. Now, this is actually somewhat useful but you know the only reason they are "helping" is because they get to literally stand around and do nothing the entire fight.

... All in one run.

Actually, you know. I think it's time for me to don my original AF armor and an ilvl49 sword, and just run around whacking things in CT and acting clueless. Then I too can get the same rewards for minimal effort.

I know rite?

What's with all of these Paladins who think they can just tank whatever they want?

Honestly I've accidentally done something like that, but I was DF-ing it alone as a warrior. I had absolutely no idea what was going on since it was my first time in CT, and everyone in my group were Japanese. So I did whatever I thought was right, which apparently was entirely wrong, till they wanted to boot me from the group. Lol! I even went ahead to translate my questions into Japanese but nobody bothered about me. We won the fight after all.

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Originally Posted by Senfei

I've grouped with other Paladins who...

A. Immediately pulled Valefor and shoved its ass right into the squishies faces.
B. Aggro'd and DPSed skellis down right next to dragon, or furiously engaged w/ provoke and multiple shield lobs when I've already got it halfway to the back platform.
C. Become mute when it's time to tank adds before boss two.
D. "DPS" the whole time on boss two, even when they aren't ghosts.
E. Suddenly become extremely efficient and fast at FF14 when selecting a tower, appearing as if by magic by their chosen position before everyone else is even at the boss.
... All in one run.

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well, sounds like a usual run in CT... or what i refer it to: ... the Labyrinth of Trolls...

I am always glad if i loot on the first run so i have to not do CT again for a Week =)

If I'm in CT on my WAR and someone tries to take aggro... I let them. Means I can sit back and pretty much AFK while glorymonger gets to do his thing.

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Originally Posted by Sunah

I agree to be honest, I let the girls fight over MT on first boss and i stand there like a good person and wait for the skeles to pop up. It spawns, i throw a circle of scorn flash combo and start running. im HALF way to the end and some retard taunts and toss's and runs to in the opposite direction. Makes no sense to me.

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It's a joke really. MTing the dragon requires less effort than handling the adds. Yet 9 times out of 10, every hotshot tank seems to think it's their time to shine as the superstar of the alliance.

I love it when 5400 HP WARs (with Defiance) or equally geared (as in: naked) Paladins go as far as to Provoke mobs off me in CT. I just let them tank throughout the rest of the dungeon as I swap to DPS gear.

It usually involves tons of fun and sarcastic name-calling, makes for fun 1-hour long CTs

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Originally Posted by Senfei

I've grouped with other Paladins who...

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It's always the Paladins. It's like they don't know what Sword Oath is.

If you take the time to ask politely the tanks to not rob each other's platinals but instead help each other it usually works. (Sometimes after a wipe...) The same if everybody is attacking the dragon and nobody on platinals (DPS included.) Or reminding to not kill platinals together. Or kill baloons and napalms in the next boss (DPS.) It's not just a tank thing, but all jobs (as usual, tanks' blunders are more visible and deadlier.) Most times everybody knows what to do, but many times it is chaos, that's CT. It's surprising how the same group after a wipe and some quick instructions can do wonderful.
CT is a communication and organisation check. If those things fail usually chaos happens. At first group leaders explained everything and it went much better, now mostly they don't.

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Originally Posted by Kadas

It usually involves tons of fun and sarcastic name-calling, makes for fun 1-hour long CTs

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It seems to me that 1 hour is the average duration of CT. If things go bad, it can last a lot longer.

I run CT almost entirely in Sword Oath. If I go Shield on anything, odds are I'm going to end up tanking it. CT is such a weird dungeon to me, the way it's set up. I wasn't aware how much tanks were able to troll in that place until a few days ago.

In my personal experience, I've always found the majority of tanks to be extremely amiable with the exceptions being the ones who take their role way too seriously.

So as far as I can tell, anyone who can't stay their hand and just let whoever called MT, MT is just a asshat troll.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

If you take the time to ask politely the tanks to... help each other...

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You're asking too much.

I'm just assuming this is a "Tanks in CT" Thread...

Welcome to "Whose Tower Is It Anyway" the raid where everyone's trolled on and the tanks fight over threat.

My FC will occasionally get drunk and run CT. You'll see this sort of thing often when such an event were to take place.

As a note, are antics are usually to break the normal flow of a fight without actually causing a wipe, so you won't actually see us provoke things during the KB fight. That's just stupid...

I also highly recommend playing Dragon Roulette. MT drags the first boss in a circle around the room and tanks will place skeletons in location where you hope the dragon won't stop in the end.

Most of the time I Ignore adds and bosses since kids will fight over them and just concentrate on keeping uglies from spanking my healers. I will usually wait for most elemental a to be pulled and just go and grab one of the dragons and put it in the proper place because if I don't than someone will try parking it on the squishes.

As a healer in ct, I have found having a tank on claw duty extremely useful. Not necessary, but than again any dps/heals not hit by the claw is 10 times as useful to the fight than the crappy dps tank not intercepting claws.

Pretty funny how on Bone Dragon the offtanks are so gung-ho to get those skeletons but when it comes to King Behemoth how quick they are to claim a tower and shirk any form of responsibility.

Real tanks do it without Provoke :D

Other than that, yea it is pretty juvenile. I love it when trying to tank KB, and all the other tanks decide to use Provoke and cause the alliance to wipe. Real pro.

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Originally Posted by Senfei

F. Stand in the back during final boss, baiting hand. Now, this is actually somewhat useful but you know the only reason they are "helping" is because they get to literally stand around and do nothing the entire fight.

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now, what would you suggest I do instead of baiting hands? Impress everyone with my awesome damage? Steal hate from MT cause I am going full hate combo all the time? Or stand in the back and get the hand in my face because as am actually one of the few that doesn't necessarily die when dps forget to kill it for a while?

CT Is already pretty boring for tanks as it is. I could run around like a headless chicken durin the last boss fight and do whatever. Or I stand in the back and do something remotely useful. Not necessarily the brunt Of the work here but useful.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Real tanks do it without Provoke :D

Other than that, yea it is pretty juvenile. I love it when trying to tank KB, and all the other tanks decide to use Provoke and cause the alliance to wipe. Real pro.

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Don't say that, new ppl might read it wrong & end up in Titan EX or Ultima HM w/o it lol.

Ah the age old dilemma of "I feel special when boss attacks me" even though the other tank is doing a perfect job of being viable.

Then suddenly you ask them to MT a boss and these b1tchiz are like "nah, I'm good, you can have him man".

I usually see this behavior with tanks who want to tank but don't have the confidence to MT.

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Originally Posted by Gandora

Don't say that, new ppl might read it wrong & end up in Titan EX or Ultima HM w/o it lol.

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Well the context is regarding "stealing hate" which is a little different than tank swaps, but you still make a valid point :D

Do English groups do it differently?

In Japanese groups Alliance B always is main tank on bosses (unless they get us killed then we switch for that fight only). The question of who is MT never comes up.

That aside, they don't always try to steal hate (using provoke is trying I admit but I am talking about the others that don't) they just steal hate on accident because a tanks strongest DPS rotations are also our strongest Enmity Generation rotations.

Also, as for PLDs using Sword of Shield Oath. Even in Sword Oath they still pull massive hate because of the DPS increase. When I MT on my WAR (because I like to MT even though WARs are clearly better OTs because we can keep up Storm's Path and Eye more often as OT) the PLDs usually give me a run for my money.

When it's not for serious, it's fun (Hate Racing)... and I agree real Tanks don't use Provoke in these contests.

I'll get paired with a WAR buddy or another PLD and we'll sit there and spam our enmity combos, watching the bars, and slowly, slowly, slowly one of us will build up and pass the other and become Primary Target.

It depends on gear of course, but also on how well you can time your button-mashing to trigger each cascading combo right on the GCD mark...building an enmity surge just *that much* faster than the other Tank.

(Real PLD also don't use macros. We go commando, depending only on our naked button-mashing skill and Lady Latency... heh. Life on the edge, eh?)

Being able to keep or steal hate from a buddy Tank *without* using Provoke... that's just good old-fashioned e-penis measurement :)

I see this all the time in CT and usually I chalk it up to either clueless tanks or troll tanks, either of which can pretty much ruin the entire run.

However my personal peeve is when other people are f'int up or trolling and you are trying your damnedest to fix the situation and then people start yelling at you because you didn't magically fix everything.

Perfect example, I say I will mt king since I've done it before many times and a lot of the other tanks don't quite seem to know the dungeon very well, everyone says their cool with that and start assigning and taking up different positions. I'm waiting for one tank to take their position on the NW tower and instead they run past it, agro king and run to the center so that king's attacks hit everyone. Since a good chunk of the raid is near dead and all the dps have piled on and we have a troll tank running around I figure wipe, reset and get it sorted out. But instead I started getting yelled at and insulted saying that I should have taken control of the situation and that I suck, blah blah blah. Um ... having to try to Mt king with a tank that is obviously trolling or really dumb messing things up, sorry not going to work.

My job is to tank, not make up for or carry stupid people, lazy people or trolls.

Ugh, nothing makes me more upset than this right here.

When they take hate, I /a I'm not fighting you for hate, you can have it.
One time, that tank ended up dying because his healers weren't ready. Ahhh Karma

This is why I let most tanks take initiative to tank things in CT, and I'm content with playing pick-up/clean-up duty.

Except Iron Giants. I must have them. They are my precious babies. If I'm stuck on tower duty or fighting KB that fight I feel like I will fall asleep right in my chair, zzzzzz

I always MT everything in CT. Why? Becuase I know a good tank is doing the job rather than someone who is clueless, also I'm i87 and why not make things easy mode. Thankfully I am at a level where I can maintain hate over every tank I come across in CT (I assume the i88-i90 players are sensible enough to not use provoke), when someone uses provoke the enmity switches for less than a second then back to me, until 60s later when provoke is up or whatever the CD on it is.

The best I saw was on Acheron where all the tanks compete for hate 50% of the time. There was one tank that could "almost" compete with me but he made the mistake of standing beside me trying to build hate when everyone esle ran away as Flare was about to cast. I popped sprint made it to the shield in the nick of time, checked the Chat Log, "*insert name* was defeated by Acheron"..... I laughed:)

If I give a 10-15 second head start on enmity generation and then I pull Acheron before the first flare - then whoever is MT shouldn't be MT. If it's a PLD I can even pull simply running with Storm's Eye > Storm's Path > Butchers Block most of the time.

Regarding Giants, it's the idiot OT's that cast provoke the second it spawns, and then of course since the meteor just dropped, healers were casting Medica II after it landed, and so two seconds after the giant has appeared - say bye to your enmity OT. Buff up, give it a couple seconds and then Provoke + Lob/Toma. Else I will be stealing the Giant from your incompetent hands.

I agree though, using provoke to simply pull for the sake of it - is stupid.

Keep in mind that not everyone you see playing a tank job at any given moment is actually a tank player. They are often DPS tired of long queues. Especially in content like CT, where they can get away with it and still get tomes/loot for their real job(s).

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Originally Posted by Maku

Do English groups do it differently?

In Japanese groups Alliance B always is main tank on bosses (unless they get us killed then we switch for that fight only). The question of who is MT never comes up.

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Yes. On NA servers, whoever volunteers for MT is MT. In groups that actually talk, anyway. Often, whoever pulls first is MT. Or whoever isn't fast enough getting to a tower or volunteering for giants. MT often changes for every boss, too.

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Originally Posted by Bixby

Yes. On NA servers, whoever volunteers for MT is MT. In groups that actually talk, anyway. Often, whoever pulls first is MT. Or whoever isn't fast enough getting to a tower or volunteering for giants. MT often changes for every boss, too.

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That sounds ridiculously complicated especially since I have noticed English groups don't talk hardly at all.

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Originally Posted by Starvald

now, what would you suggest I do instead of baiting hands? Impress everyone with my awesome damage? Steal hate from MT cause I am going full hate combo all the time? Or stand in the back and get the hand in my face because as am actually one of the few that doesn't necessarily die when dps forget to kill it for a while?

CT Is already pretty boring for tanks as it is. I could run around like a headless chicken durin the last boss fight and do whatever. Or I stand in the back and do something remotely useful. Not necessarily the brunt Of the work here but useful.

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You know, I did mention that doing that is somewhat useful. My point was, in the context of my post, some tanks will do everything in their power to do as little as possible in CT. It amuses me, because it often has them rapidly switching between appearing and acting lazy/stupid to hyper responsive and intuitive.