Where do I go from here (WHM gear)

Hey guys! I'm kind of in a little spot here in deciding what to upgrade for my next few pieces.

Gear: Thyrus (NQ), DL cowl, DL gloves, heroes belt of healing, royal breeches, DL boots, DL choker, DL ears, DL bracelet, DL ring/heroes ring of healing.

Now I ask this because the DL cowl is putting me into a weird spot where to upgrade, I'd need two new pieces of gear.

What I'm currently doing is spamming CT for Royal Vest, and then purchasing Cleric's Circlet - opposed to upgrading Thyrus. Is this the best route for gear upgrades at my current spot?

Any comments greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

One random side question: is it pretty much impossible for me to heal outside parties in CT if I'm using a gamepad on PC?

Thyrus Zenith > Cleric Pants .... after that.. you can go based on preference or what gear you collect in Coil/CT/Extremes

Edit: All myth accessories are not that good for whm...

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

Thyrus Zenith > Cleric Pants .... after that.. you can go based on preference or what gear you collect in Coil/CT/Extremes

Edit: All myth accessories are not that good for whm...

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Thank you! So you think it's better for me to upgrade my weapon than getting upgraded my DL cowl (and thus head slot as well)? And since I already have i80 pants, would upgrading cleric gloves/feet be a better idea (to give a better iLevel and to give a bigger increase in stats)?

Yes, upgrade to zenith first. Then grab pants (as allagan pants won't drop until T5). Since you're going WHM, pref DET where you can.

When it comes to alliance healing, hold L1 and push left/right to toggle through the alliance menu. It sure is clunky, but no worse than trying to use the virtual mouse

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Originally Posted by Daenerys_Sedai

Yes, upgrade to zenith first. Then grab pants (as allagan pants won't drop until T5). Since you're going WHM, pref DET where you can.

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Exactly......

It has been stated before that accessories for WHM aren't a priority mostly because they provide an undesirable secondary stat (crit).

You can also acquire accessories from Ultima, Garuda, Titan, Ifrit Extreme.

These 6 are the best choices in-order to getting a reasonably swift i85+ build.

1. Thyrus Zenith
2. Myth Pants (Turn 5 Coil for Allagan)
3. Myth Body (Turn 4 Coil for Allagan)
4. Crystal Tower i80 Hat at same time as Myth Body
5. Myth Belt
6. Myth Healing Ring (Turn 4 and you can get Garuda/Ultima ring)

Secondary focus:

1. Myth Boots (Coil turn 2 for Allagan)
2. Myth Hat (Coil turn 2 for Allagan)
3. Crystal Tower Gloves (Turn 1 for Allagan)
4. Ultima Choker
5. Ultima Ring
6. Myth Earings (Turn 1 Allagan)
7. Myth Bracelets (Turn 4 for Allagan)

Is it fair to assume that higher ilvl gear will pretty much always be better????


I have a full crafted ilvl 70 set, and haven't entered a 50+ instance yet. But when I do...

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Originally Posted by Simaril

Is it fair to assume that higher ilvl gear will pretty much always be better????


I have a full crafted ilvl 70 set, and haven't entered a 50+ instance yet. But when I do...

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I believe so, the difference in primary becomes too great to ignore. Especially between ilv70 and 90. The only argument I would make would be for the crafted lv 70 accessories. I'm not a big fan of the myth accessories for whm as most of it has crit. The topic has been discussed before and the general consensus is that many do prefer astral over myth but the mixture of allagan/extreme/Ultima on the right side is going to be BIS.

There's a lot of implication here that crit is a bad stat.

Secondary stats for WHM are up for debate. Some WHM prefer crit and there are solid reasons for taking it. I suggest getting a feel for what you like.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

There's a lot of implication here that crit is a bad stat.

Secondary stats for WHM are up for debate. Some WHM prefer crit and there are solid reasons for taking it. I suggest getting a feel for what you like.

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There is no debate. Crit is the worst stat for a WHM. The order is:

Mind > Det > Piety or SSPD > Crit

Knowing that your heal hits for 1000 is much better then having you heal hit for 750 normal and 1500 - 30% of the time. That is because if the tank loses 1000 hp, you know if you cast 1 heal he will be topped off. Crit only has value when the tank is low, and you need to bring him up quick. Then if it would take 4 normal casts to get him there, and you crit 1 cast and it only takes you 3 casts.

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

There is no debate. Crit is the worst stat for a WHM. The order is:

Mind > Det > Piety or SSPD > Crit

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I have personally went with Determination myself and with my current gear setup which is a mix of Allagan + Myth, my heals are hitting for roughly 1060-1115 which is awesome, but I feel that some spell speed would help out just a smidge as well. I'm trying to find the right balance myself. But I do agree that I don't like crit nearly as much. While it can be helpful, its also RNG at the same time. You may get a string of crits when you don't need them and then no crits when you could sorely use them. I prefer consistency over RNG, especially for Coil.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

There's a lot of implication here that crit is a bad stat.

Secondary stats for WHM are up for debate. Some WHM prefer crit and there are solid reasons for taking it. I suggest getting a feel for what you like.

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I based the decision for less Crit more "other" secondary on the itemization. The left side myth set for whm excluding the belt has no crit on it. The Allagan weapon and relic/zenith have no crit. The allagan gear does have 2 pieces of crit but we share that with SCH and from what I gather crit is a desired secondary for them. That leaves the heroes, still don't understand how every piece has crit, maybe it was intended to balance the myth set with the heroes accessories?

TBH if there was an equal level gear set for crit and I had it I would use it in 4 man dungeons. For those, I would rather have the dps increase crit offers than the overkill healing I would want for 8 mans...

Really, secondaries just don't matter. ilevel is the most important - you get more mind and pie and that's what you really care about. Det or SS just doesn't really matter as things are.

Though, I would avoid crit unless you like it for some reason. There's a big potential for huge overhealing and there's no procs you can take advantage of with it.
That basically boils down to avoiding the Hero's jewelry.
When you look at what drops in coil and the myth gear and which has crit vs. not having it you'll see that, when sch goes basically full crit build and whm goes det/ss, the myth expenditure and drops desired are roughly equal.

Personally I do i90>Det>Crit>SS. I don't like SS because lower levels trained me to worry about mana conservation more than throughput. But it doesn't matter much in the end, like I was saying.
There's something to be said for prioritizing PIE (using the Omnirod instead of getting the Zenith for ex.) when you don't have a bunch of i90 yet. You'd be able to buy more myth left-hand-side stuff (which is all pretty useful) that way too.

In my opinion, I dislike spell speed. People say quick heals after a huge hit on tank, but that's why you run with a SCH for their lustrate ability and WHM follows up with their burst. That's just how I see it though. So I stack Det for the larger heals. The .12 second off a full speed build I don't see offering any benefit based on how my group heals through stuff. So in end its usually always preference and how group you're in does stuff. I'd make sure to find a static.
I go Mind > Det > Pie. SS and Crit weighted equally, I just pick item with higher piety.

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

There is no debate. Crit is the worst stat for a WHM. The order is:

Mind > Det > Piety or SSPD > Crit

(snip)

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Sorry, I don't agree with your logic.

If all I had to do was predictably plug 1k heals into a tank, then yes, I'd love to heal that 1k up every single time, but that's rarely the case. Often the tank is down more than 1k, in which case a crit saves me time and mana. My regen effects benefit from crit and not spell speed. When a tank that gets hit for a bunch of damage while I'm in mid-cast, a crit can resolve the situation instantly rather than creating a moment of panic.

This isn't to say that speed is worthless, but I think the community overvalues it.

Also I really like PIE. It improves my regen, something WHM struggle with.

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Originally Posted by Viviza

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The problem with crit as a WHM is twofold.

One, it's unreliable. You don't know when you're going to crit and when you aren't, which means your crits have a decent chance of being entirely wasted. On the other hand, determination and spell speed are constant and reliable.

Two, WHM has no abilities or passive traits that rely on crit. The reason crit is useful for SCH is because both Adloquium and Enhanced Pet Actions benefit from crit. WHM on the other hand has none of these.

I still apply regen effects despite many of the ticks being wasted. Overheal is something that has to be accepted as part of the game. Also, WHM have no passive traits that rely on speed either.

Speed isn't universally reliable as it doesn't apply to HOT effects and healers don't chain heals off like DPS can chain their attacks. It can slightly improve reaction time, and helps in those cases where you DO chain heals, but this isn't all the time. There are other times when getting an extra 50% on the heal you're casting is more useful than getting your next cast a bit sooner.

In the end, I'm not even claiming that crit should be taken over speed. What I'm offering is some counter-point for people to think about.

I'd actually recommend OP to go for a myth piece other than legs (after geting Thyrus Zenith, of course). The fact that Allagan pants drop from turn 5 shouldn't matter at this point. They are going to be seeing a larger immediate increase to healing overall by replacing a piece of Darklight which would be much more helpful in the short term and help them see any coil gear at all. Maybe if you manage to get the crown or robe from CT you could replace the other slot with a myth piece.

But still get the Thyrus upgrade first.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Cut

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This was what my line of thought was. I have royal pants, and even though cleric pants are BiS - I could upgrade my DL feet to cleric boots for example for a much bigger stat increase (DL->myth instead of royal->myth). Just really wasn't sure if I should get Thyrus upgrade or, say, myth gloves+feet (or something along those lines), since myth is pretty hard to come by.

Thank you all, kind folks, for the responses and for some debate (to help me further understand the job)!

Thyrus->Thyrus Zenith (900 myth): +4MND, +3DET, +3SPD, +5VIT

DL Gloves-> Cleric Gloves (495 myth): +6MND, -8DET, +15SPD, +6VIT, +5PIE
DL Boots-> Cleric Boots (495 myth): +6MND, +7DET, +6VIT
Totals for both: +12MND, -1DET, +12VIT, +15SPD, +5PIE

Relic upgrade is 900 myth while gloves and boots will run me 990 myth (so pretty close). Am I wrong in my line of thinking in that I should upgrade the latter two before my zenith? This will give me a faster boost in iLevel (which will make it much easier for me to actually get into coil parties and thus allagan gear).

Thyrus > Zenith will actually be the most significant and noticeable upgrade to your performance. +3 Magic damage is, from my understanding, somewhere in the realm of +20-ish MND.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Thyrus > Zenith will actually be the most significant and noticeable upgrade to your performance. +3 Magic damage is, from my understanding, somewhere in the realm of +20-ish MND.

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Oh wow, completely looked over that (and didn't even know that's how it worked). Thanks man!

My personal preference is: ilvl70 crafted stuff and crit. I don't mind whether its "absolutely best in slot" or not or the so-called only right secondary stat composition. i70 vs i90 accessoires is a diffrence between Cure 1 healing 1020 and 1070 for me. I don't care about this little difference, I favor the +500HP. I personally favor crit although it is not reliable, but: Det is constant but minor as well, SS doesn't make the cut, if the .1s does, something went wrong before. Crit is always nice if it hits, because usually it saves one extra heal and our common use case is that the tank need to be healed more than 1k, and for overheal, oh dear if your tank can't handle that bit aggro of overheal, get a new tank.
Yes the theorycrafters are right about their hps, constant vs. unreliability and whatever, I agree with them. But on practical application, I don't think it holds.

The longest fight is Twintania and you have to heal about a total of 380k Damage (parsed yesterday from our run out of curiosity). I healed a portion of 160k, while the SCH+fairy did the rest. So thats about 160 Cures (1k assuming) or 145 Cures (1,1k assuming for going full DET and MND). When I crit Cure 1, it is 1,5k with 14% (every 7th) going Crit or 1,6k with 11% (every 9th) going Det. So it doesn't make that big difference if you go Crit or Det IMO, matter of taste and at the end of the day only one thing matters: Are ppl alive or not (and was is it close or not)?
Theorycrafting is nice, but from a practical view it doesn't matter (only considering WHM!). I personally feel more comfortable with Crit. To come to an end: There is no ultimate wisdom or the one and only way everyone has to go. Use your own brain.

This is only my personal observation, preference and opinion. Just wanna say, don't believe blindly what other ppl might say and make it your dogma. And don't get irritated by ppl who might say ("whaaaaat, you're gimp using this one", "dont you know this is bis you noob"), just ignore them.

And yeah for upgrades: Weapon, Pants, Body first.

Hi OP,

I would say if you can upgrade your "left" side, before your right (accessories) to get a sizeable amount of VIT to better endure AoEs or Turn 5 fireballs without compromising your healing ability (Mnd, Piety, Vit all on each left-side piece, except maybe the weapon).

I'm glad I found this thread. I was recently wondering the same thing, Zenith vs. Cleric items, and heard both answers from people in my FC. Glad to know most people here say Zenith first, which is what I did.

Thyrus > Thyrus Zenith > Allagan Cane (BiS)
DL Cowl > Cleric's Robe + Royal Crown > Allagan Tunic + Allagan Circlet (BiS)
DL Gloves > Cleric's Gloves (BiS)
Heroes Belt > Allagan Rope Belt (BiS)
Royal Breeches > Cleric's Culottes (BiS)
DL Boots > Cleric's Boots (BiS)
DL Choker > Ulitma Choker of Healing > Hero's Necklace > Allagan Choker (BiS)
DL Ears > Tremor Errings of Healing > Hero's Earrings > Allagan Earrings (BiS)
DL Bracelet > Hero's Bracelet > Allagan Bracelet > Inferno Bangle (BiS)
DL Ring > Ultima Band > Allagan Ring (BiS)

This is my own personal gear guide, the ones marked with (BiS) are the ones you eventually want to end up with and aim for. The items I listed before 'BiS' will get you through the content you need to gain the 'BiS' items :) I tend to favor Det over Crit.

Hope it helps!

Many people are overlooking the primal weapon. If you can manage to do all of the 3 extreme primals your gonna get ilvl90 weapon for free. Might not be easy without the zenith but it´s totally doable especially if you get some heĺ from your FC. Getting primal weapon + your myth gloves+boots would be a huge upgrade.

Yeah, I agree. If you can get the primal weapon fairly readily use the myth someplace else at first.

Thanks for the continued responses guys. Ending up getting lucky on Ultima ring and Allagan earrings so got some nice quick upgrades there. Think I'm gonna skip zenith for now, despite lots of people in here saying to do it first, and upgrade to clerics robe and royal crown (mostly for the fact that I hate being in a DL cowl still, and the fact that people say "I'm still in darklight" even though it's my last piece...) That's annoying.

I hope i catch you in time to say don't do it! Lol. Screw them you're not getting everyone killed! Go for CT stuff it slightly lower than myth but same secondary stats and the upgrade onweapon seemed huge, when i did it. It is something i revret because i felt the same way when i was doing coil, just don't do it. The myth head and body aren't worth it. I still have that myth body, buy id rather have saved the tomes and used them on something else. The only reason that your line of thinking was the would bethe same as mine would be if there were no CT, which at the time there wasnt for me.

CT upgrades for head and body, not myth use them on the weapon it has a bonus to healfrom weapon dmg, det, and mnd, and is easily the best i90 piece you can get.

Okay instead of making a new thread might as well ask in another WHM gear thread. So I'm almost done gearing my BRD now after a lucky coil drop, and so the gearing process starts on my WHM, now I was gonna get the Zenith weapon, but we recently got down Titan EX and so the Omnirod suddenly became an option. Now I have almost all CT gear just not the boots and to be honest grinding CT for one specific thing is not something I want to do now. Also I doubt I'll get any coil drops even though our healers are i90 everyone and their mothers are greeding on everything in our static, because they might one day heal something, and I have never won any greeds in coil so far...

Omnirod is fine if you don't have any other jobs that could use a Primal Weapon, having a i90 weapon is more important than having the slightly better i90 weapon.

And CT boots aren't that great for WHM so don't stress about them.

Hello everyone.
Instead of using another topic i'll post here if it doesn't disturb.

I'll have my WHM really soon and since i already had a War,i collected some mythos and i'll use them for my WHM i think.

I know myth accessories are not that good so i'll try to loot them in coil(if i can go)

For now i've got the Omnirod(i know Thyrus is better but it's a I90 weapon it can't be bad right ?)
Body Myth
Pants Mmyth
All the rest is from CT
For accessories i've got garuda ring and the allagan ring ,the rest is DL.

What should i buy or hope to drop next ?
I'm probably going to help some friends of my CT with this WHM(this char is another from my main) on Titan Ex and MAY BE Ifrit but not sure,may be i'm undergeared ?

Thanks in advance and pardon me if i did some mistakes,i'm french :p

I clear coil weekly and I play on controller. Controller will not hold you back at all :)

Nice i'll work on that then,thanks for the help :p

Here you go:

This is what you want to prioritize getting right now - If at all possible get the Omnirod from EX Primals. This will save you 900 myth for the Zenith which is an absolute waste b/c you can get BiS armor pieces and then pray for your Allagan Cane in Turn 5 which is BiS. Save your myth and spend it on the Cleric pants, boots, and gloves. This will put you well on your Det/SS BiS which is the BiS for WHM. Anyone who argues Det/Crit for WHM should reevaluate themselves as healers.

ATM, if you get those 3 myth pieces, and a royal chest, you should be able to tackle the extremes. The extreme accessories & weapon will put you in a good place to work towards more allagan pieces.

This is your ideal Best In Slot:
Allagan Cane
Allagan Helm
Allagan Chest
Allagan Belt
Cleric Gloves
Cleric Pants
Cleric Boots
Allagan Choker
Allagan Earrings
Inferno Bangles
Vortex Ring
Allagan Ring