The Keeper's Hymn, Why Limit Us?

This is just my personal opinion, and I can't really understand the thought process behind making your customizable attributes so expensive to change. To me, it seems to limit customization to only your primary stat, while punishing you if you want to change stats up with a 10k tome limit.

I feel it stalls progression and free customization that this game is severely lacking.
Why impose such a high tome cap just to adjust stats? For instance, my warrior plays both offtank and damage dealer in coil. It would be great to pump those 30 vit points into 30 str to be more efficient on certain turns. But with such a high tome cap, your forced into a narrow path of "bis stats" that really stalls any kind of creativity.

I propose SE removes the heavy tome cap for hymns, and allows us to buy a stat change. Currently I can't see why this would be game breaking, and should be implemented over the current close minded attribute allocation we have now. What are you're thoughts? Should we keep it as is, or allow more freedom of customization?

(By Tomes I Mean Seals, sorry for the confusion)

My SCH sucks because i focused on SMN.

Yay for customization!

10k really isn't all that much. What I don't understand is why I can only have 5 at a time :<

Looking forward to Keeper's Hymn [Chocobo Version].

What the... punishing you for changing stats by spending 10k tomes?

A respec costs you 10k GC seals... while not cheap it's not exactly a "heavy" price... and what exactly are you spending those seals on otherwise once you've finished ranking up?

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

10k really isn't all that much. What I don't understand is why I can only have 5 at a time :<

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The thing is that it is expensive. It takes quite a while to farm 10k tomes, and for small adjustments between primals/coil/whatever be it. For the amount of things a stat changed could be used for, 10k tomes are just way to expensive to really allow any sort of freedom.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

10k really isn't all that much. What I don't understand is why I can only have 5 at a time :<

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Did they change this? I have 16 stacked in my retainer from like month 1. Never used any.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

10k really isn't all that much. What I don't understand is why I can only have 5 at a time :<

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What? They only stack to 5? Well, technically 15 since I can stack them on my Retainers as well, but still, why limit stack sizes? It's not like Seals have any real use once you've levelled most of your classes and have gear. And to get the 500K trophy you have to actually keep spending them to earn more than 50K. I just wish we could stack the potions (Onyx Tears?) which could see use if they weren't unique...

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Originally Posted by Taeyee

Looking forward to Keeper's Hymn [Chocobo Version].

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YES!

Yoshi specifically said that he wants the players to have to make a choice between one and the other. Naturally going back on that choice has a slightly pricey cost so that you can switch for every single event.

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Originally Posted by ZeroRains

The thing is that it is expensive. It takes quite a while to farm 10k tomes, and for small adjustments between primals/coil/whatever be it. For the amount of things a stat changed could be used for, 10k tomes are just way to expensive to really allow any sort of freedom.

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Are you trying to start a troll discussion or something? At first I thought you just had a slip of the tongue but you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that a respec costs you tomes?

It's grand company seals... those things you can get for trading in trash dungeon drops or running some FATEs in your off time. Hell I spent over 14k buying my FC an aetheryte after the last patch and made that back with next to no effort.

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Originally Posted by PlanckZero

Are you trying to start a troll discussion or something? At first I thought you just had a slip of the tongue but you ACTUALLY BELIEVE that a respec costs you tomes?

It's grand company seals... those things you can get for trading in trash dungeon drops or running some FATEs in your off time. Hell I spent over 14k buying my FC an aetheryte after the last patch and made that back with next to no effort.

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All because after leveling your FC to max NOW doesn't mean we won't have things to buy from them in the future. If your honestly so closed minded to think that this system is perfect (farming 10k tomes is not something you do in 10 minutes mind you, so yes, it takes quite a bit of time.) Please refrain from using petty things like you trolling and stuff, we don't need that kind of idiocy here, no one wants to farm tomes over and over and over just to change stats for a coil turn then change back.

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Originally Posted by ZeroRains

All because after leveling your FC to max NOW doesn't mean we won't have things to buy from them in the future. If your honestly so closed minded to think that this system is perfect (farming 10k tomes is not something you do in 10 minutes mind you, so yes, it takes quite a bit of time.) Please refrain from using petty things like you trolling and stuff, we don't need that kind of idiocy here, no one wants to farm tomes over and over and over just to change stats for a coil turn then change back.

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I think he meant you're using the term "tomes" and not "seals" because it takes 10,000 Grand Company Seals to purchase a Hymn Keeper. Not tomes, which are philosophy and mythology respectively.

OT: I agree though, it isn't "that fast" to get 10k, per every time you want to respec, which is why I stopped playing SCH at all and just focus solely on SMN. Yoshi-P got what he wants.

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Originally Posted by ZeroRains

All because after leveling your FC to max NOW doesn't mean we won't have things to buy from them in the future. If your honestly so closed minded to think that this system is perfect (farming 10k tomes is not something you do in 10 minutes mind you, so yes, it takes quite a bit of time.) Please refrain from using petty things like you trolling and stuff, we don't need that kind of idiocy here, no one wants to farm tomes over and over and over just to change stats for a coil turn then change back.

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I know it is hard to get this through to you but you really have to get it out of your head that respecs require tomes.

Like I said I had figured that you had a slip of the tongue and had meant to say seals all along but then you went on about how you need to farm primals/coil/whatever so you really have it stuck in your head somehow that allagan tomes are somehow required for buying hymns. If you're going to complain about something you should at least have the slightest clue about what you're complaining about.

S-E-A-L-S

Better yet try and squeeze into your head that you don't need to be the absolute perfect specimen of your job at all times. I've had my stats split 20/10 on my Smn/Sch and I haven't had a single occasion where someone chewed me out because my healing showed a 20 mind deficit or my DoTs were obviously 10 Int behind the other Smn the party knew.

It's points from personal stats, not gear. IMO stat points shouldn't even be changeable. With keeper's hymn, careful planning and consequences don't even exist anymore.

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Originally Posted by ZeroRains

(farming 10k tomes is not something you do in 10 minutes mind you, so yes, it takes quite a bit of time.)

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Not in 10 minutes, but in 2 days.
duty roulette, FATEs, GC leves, beastmen dailies, supply & provision missions, GC hunting log.

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Originally Posted by Yamimarik

OT: I agree though, it isn't "that fast" to get 10k, per every time you want to respec, which is why I stopped playing SCH at all and just focus solely on SMN. Yoshi-P got what he wants.

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You can play SCH just fine with the 30 attribute bonus points in INT.
It's possible that you may need max possible MND for Twintania, but I'm not sure about that even.
If that 30 MND loss for SCH prevents you from completing anything else, then it's likely that you or your party have other problems.

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Originally Posted by ZeroRains

(farming 10k tomes is not something you do in 10 minutes mind you, so yes, it takes quite a bit of time.)

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That's the entire point. They specifically do not want you doing it quickly. You're complaining about something they specifically said that they did on purpose. This will go no where.

Throwing this out here:

People complained they were handed out in 1.2x. So when people complained to SE for a complete overhaul, what used to be given to you when you did job quest (YOU KNOW BECAUSE IT MADE SENSE TO GIVE A POINT REALLOCATION ITEM WHEN YOU UNLOCK A NEW JOB), it's not bought with seals cuz people complained there was nothing to buy with seals.

So basically complaining got us limited. Also 30 Int/Mnd isn't that huge of an impact unless your gear is very far behind.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Not in 10 minutes, but in 2 days.
duty roulette, FATEs, GC leves, beastmen dailies, supply & provision missions, GC hunting log.

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Hunting Logs expire, FATEs are useless for people at Lv 50. yay for making people grind just for the sake of grinding.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So basically complaining got us limited. Also 30 Int/Mnd isn't that huge of an impact unless your gear is very far behind.

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two i90 Rings don't give you 30 INT/MND. two empty equipment slots is not a huge impact?

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You can play SCH just fine with the 30 attribute bonus points in INT.
It's possible that you may need max possible MND for Twintania, but I'm not sure about that even.
If that 30 MND loss for SCH prevents you from completing anything else, then it's likely that you or your party have other problems.

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Wasn't even trying to get on the subject of ACN and it's stat points, I was just using my own personal example about the seals, what the topic is about.

I'll admit it, I'm a min/max'er some times and it applies to the stats for ACN. Fine w/e. Personally I feel like my impact w/o the 30 MND is subpar. Either way...

OT: Still think it takes too long to effectively get enough seals to go between stat changes on a regular basis.

If folks think the 30 points they spent on their summoner or scholar stats is making the other gimp, than they have other issues. 30 points isn't breaking anyone other than people who aren't good at playing their jobs in the first place. Sad but true folks.

Also folks need to realize that they are playing the arcanist class, your job is your speciality. It's a basic concept that even single player video games do. Rarely does a game allow you to be good at everything.

I have five on my retainer. I've pretty much run out of things to spend seals on so I just blow them on Keeper's Hymns and Matter to repair my own gear.

Not really seeing the problem here. And I have a 50 SMN/SCH.

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Originally Posted by Errors

If folks think the 30 points they spent on their summoner or scholar stats is making the other gimp, than they have other issues. 30 points isn't breaking anyone other than people who aren't good at playing their jobs in the first place. Sad but true folks.

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It's important when it comes to min/maxing your group's potential. Somebody else with the same gear as you, but with those 30 points in INT instead of MND, will have superior DPS, RNG willing. So why take the person with lesser DPS?

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Originally Posted by Zaft

It's important when it comes to min/maxing your group's potential. Somebody else with the same gear as you, but with those 30 points in INT instead of MND, will have superior DPS, RNG willing. So why take the person with lesser DPS?

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Please show me one piece of content that can't be beat as a summoner or scholar that has the other's point allocated? Those precious 30 points aren't going to make a lick of difference end game if you are geared properly and know how to play the job. If you can't heal as SCH because a few extra HP healed. Then you are either horrible at the job or horribly under-geared. If you can't get that extra damage from your dots to kill something. Then you are either horrible at the job or horribly under-geared. I'm assuming you are seeing the trend here.

As for min/max. That's simple. Pick one job. Bam done. Want to be a "hard core OMG LOOK AT MY STATS IS ONE POINT HIGHER THAN YOURS! RAAAAWWWWRRR!" player? Create a new character for each job, choose the race that will give you the best stats, and spend those 30points into the stats you need. Done. Or go the other route and purchase a keepers hymn for everytime you want to switch between scholar or summoner. You want to min/max right? Done.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

It's important when it comes to min/maxing your group's potential. Somebody else with the same gear as you, but with those 30 points in INT instead of MND, will have superior DPS, RNG willing. So why take the person with lesser DPS?

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MMM MMM dat boost to Ruin II!

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Hunting Logs expire, FATEs are useless for people at Lv 50. yay for making people grind just for the sake of grinding.

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FATE's give Seals at 50, that's the point here. Thus, they're not useless. And what is leveling off FATE's if not grinding? Why is that different then raising seals off FATE's?

Roulette's and the supply/provision missions are a great source of seals too. Once you hit 50 (which is the only time you should be using a Keeper's Hymn) you have nothing else to spend seals on anyway. You just build them constantly with no outlet, so you start buying Hymns just so you don't cap out.

just do AK WP and co and trade in all the gear you dont need. a lot of people pass on it instead of greeding. I never need on WP or AK stuff if I am in with a job that is equipped better, so I donÄt take an upgrade form someone who might need it.

The stats are boring. There is simply no question that we just invest in the primary stat because they make so little difference if we spread the stats out. On top of that, some stats have unclear effects forcing people to rely on third-party analysis---which come back telling us that anything but the primary stat is worthless.

Customization? Customization is only meaningful if the effects can be felt. But in FFXIV, all you feel when you divert away from the primary stat is that you seem weaker.

For this reason I'm not really bothered that it's expensive to reset the stats---because there's no point doing so. :(

Regardless of why they are expensive, why do you need to repeatedly change your stats?

Outside of Arcanist, there really isn't any need for re-allocating your stats. Especially on a regular basis. Every class already has a "best" stat or two, so how often so you need to change it? I don't think there is any content that deviates so much that you need to respec to complete it. I see these as a "fix" item if you have somehow completely screwed yourself with poor stat allocation before unlocking your job....not a constant stat-change tool.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

What I don't understand is why I can only have 5 at a time :<

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I have 25 of them, and it says on the tooltip 25/99.

Maybe you're getting stack size limit confused with the amount you can purchase at a single time? Since seals are capped are 50,000, you can only ever afford to purchase 5 at one time. But, they stack to 99.

Pretty sure there isnt a limit on them... I have a stack of 20 in my inventory atm and the items shows that they stack up to 99. So just like any other regular item there is not an enforced limit.