Can we make FATEs viable again please.

Some of us actually liked them.

They were pretty much the only open world group content in the game actually worth doing. People complained about them a lot but I vastly preferred them to events in GW2 because in FFXIV people actually grouped up, socialized a bit, and even worked together to some degree.

I liked joining a warband and slaughtering everything with people, and I made friends that way too, believe it or not.

People complained about FATE grinding a lot, but I think what people really wanted was balance, not for you to just outclass them so it's like they don't exist anymore. Entire game for me now is just waiting on frickin duty finder queues. It's not a diverse experience and now that the hype from CT has died down the 2.1 world is boring as hell.

1. They didn't nerf FATE experience they just made dungeons better so spam FATES all you want.

2. FATES are still the best for getting company seals (for those of us who aren't already max rank and swim in the things)

I still see FATE groups forming pretty regularly. People obviously still do them, and like Mazi above said, they only increased dungeon exp to be on par if not maybe slightly better than FATE grinding experience depending on the dungeon/level. There isn't a whole lot of difference but there are more people in dungeons because they aren't spamming FATEs. They just made more viable ways to level at the same pace. I don't see the problem with that because again, there are still groups forming on a regular basis.

They didn't nerf FATE exp but the changes to how FATEs calculate difficulty based on the amount of players who completed it the previous time it spawned mean they are now horribly unbalanced. One time a FATE might be a pushover with five people, the next time you try it a few days later the difficulty is suddenly ramped up due to the fact the last time it spawned there just happened to be a ton of players doing it.

FATEs where mobs constantly spawn can also be problematic, as often they'll agro from a huge distance and swarm you before you even know what's happening. I know they did that to stop the abuse of the system previously (Dark Devices *cough cough*), but it's made FATEs unwieldy now sadly.

Just my opinion, but I think this is something that will never be perfectly balanced, as people will simply gravitate to whatever the community determines to be the "fastest route."

There's still a healthy mix of both on my server, so I think it's simply up to the players to go out and do FATEs as they appear. I also personally find it refreshing that FATEs don't get bulldozed in 10 seconds anymore, but that's a horse of a different color.

Yeah, FATEs are still needed for seals.

They are still a good way to lv while waiting for df. There's still lots of people in aleport, quarymill, costa del sol and especially coerthas

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Originally Posted by myahele

They are still a good way to lv while waiting for df.

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Except being in a group and queuing for stuff doesn't work, unless of course they are coming with you, in which case your queue would be instant or very short

On my server coerthas is the only one with any signs of life. Aleport, South Shroud, Costa, are pretty dead.

they aren't viable because there is no longer a population that sustains them.

fate spawn rate and difficulty is based on location POP (with a cap). the more people, the more of them active, and the more mobs that spawn during them.

One easy way to make FATES popular again would be to make seals valuable again.

More GC ranks, content, and seal sinks that people can claw their ways to attain.

FATE exp still not bad compare to dungeons, the current situation just shows most ppl dislike FATE grinding (which actually surprised me).
So unless they make FATE super easy, or give it un-balanced exp, ppl will not go back to something they dislike.
Also, nothing stops you doing FATE while queuing for dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

FATE exp still not bad compare to dungeons, the current situation just shows most ppl dislike FATE grinding (which actually surprised me).
So unless they make FATE super easy, or give it un-balanced exp, ppl will not go back to something they dislike.
Also, nothing stops you doing FATE while queuing for dungeons.

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I don't think it's really a matter of dislike toward it as much as it is the burnout from pre-2.1 because FATEs were where it was at for the most part, mostly if you had done the main story already and were on an alt class. I'll still drop into a FATE once in awhile but it's usually just to lend a hand, unless I need one for a daily. Once my own burnout subsides I may be seen out in the world doing a few more. There are fewer people in or starting groups for FATE grinding but there are groups forming. Not near as frequently but enough for me to notice as I'm passing through various places...mainly those that are claimed to be dead.

I leveled my 2 classes to lvl 50 last month via Fates mainly. They're still very viable. Duration in finishing FATEs increased by a bit due to them scaling but they're still pretty good.

FATE grinding still works wonders. The exp granted from snagging some friends and just running between FATE's in an appropriate level zone is fantastic.

What's dead are the mass FATE swarms such as those that inhabited Coerthas, South Shroud, and I'm sure a few other areas. Those situations where mobs of thirty players would rush from FATE to FATE, clear it in under a minute by spamming whatever they had to for credit with no regard to anything, and then the whole mass would move on to the next FATE. This is what died: getting rewarded for tagging enemies and lagging zones.

And thank the 'gods' that it's gone.

I've always just queued DF while hunting FATEs on my DD classes, and it works even better now that not all FATEs are always swarmed by a rioting mob of players, because any solo player can get Gold on any FATE easily now.

FATEs are still perfectly viable, and it's rare to see a FATE flip between hard mode and easy mode. After all, if a FATE becomes hard mode, it means the next time it pops it will be easy mode.

And this is the balanced way it should be, in my opinion. What do you do in FATEs? Just mindlessly target a mob and kill it, rinse and repeat. What do you do in dungeons? The effort put into each is so different that dungeons should have awarded more experience in the first place anyway.

Personally, I hate fates. They're boring and repetitive and lead to a lot of really poorly geared lvl 50 people who don't know the first thing about playing their jobs other than spamming their most effective AoE. Apparently I'm not the only one that feels this way. For months, it was really the only effective way of lvling alternate classes, and now dungeons are viable as well, far more fun, and actually force a person to play the game, rather than mindlessly spam a single ability. Guildleves as well, when you have allowances. Fates haven't been nerfed, they still give the same xp that they always did, there's just more options now, and frankly, those other options are a lot more interesting and fun to a lot of the people who used to spam fates as their primary way of lvling. There's nothing stopping you from doing Fates if you want, just don't blame others for not finding as much enjoyment in them as you do.

And I don't think you know what the word viable means, so I'll enlighten you.

Viable - practicable; workable: a viable alternative.

By the very definition of viable, fates are just that, viable.

I really wish people would stop using "viable" to mean "best". That's not what it means.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-etRVlhrXJ6...sy-Posters.jpg

We like FATEs. We like FATEs not. We like FATEs. We like FATEs not…..

The reason people aren't fate grinding is because there is now an alternative, and the people not fate grinding prefer the new alternative over fate grinding, e.g. "People that like fates" are the minority.

That and with new content out, less people are leveling alts, and there are less new players. As such the people running fates is low right now in general, even dungeon running is low. Most people that have 50's are on T5 and farming EM Primals now and will go back to alts when it's all on farm.

Basically, regardless of whether fates are good exp or not, it's inevitable that they die eventually no matter what SE changes on them. Thats because people run out of battle classes to level and new players top flocking to the game over time. The only way to make people spam them again would be to make GC Seals Extremely Relevant, e.g. Must Have's. They would need to add the next 2 ranks ASAP and make us absolutely want to have GC seals all the time.

And IMO making people spam them for GC seals because they have to have them would be so bad. I can think of about 100 things I'd rather be doing in the game than spamming a fate for nothing other than GC Seals. Even added vanity items to fates as drops, rare minions, etc isn't going to fix it.

See the root problem with content in a game is that the ultimate factor in what content players run comes down to fun. Once they've acquired everything from content and don't need it they will fall back to what they consider to be fun. So right now lots of people just PVP when their not in BCB and do nothing else. Others run primals, BCB, and craft, or work on their houses.

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

FATE exp still not bad compare to dungeons, the current situation just shows most ppl dislike FATE grinding (which actually surprised me).
So unless they make FATE super easy, or give it un-balanced exp, ppl will not go back to something they dislike.
Also, nothing stops you doing FATE while queuing for dungeons.

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Who says everyone dislikes Fates? I enjoyed them it was easy and I could grind out multiple levels. Dungeons are sooooooo much work and are slow unless it's your first dungeon with daily bonus, and there is a limmit to how many dungeons you can run before your brain overloads. Fates are simple and I can do them with half a brain = easy levels. Therefore fates are better. imo lol

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Originally Posted by Ryios

The reason people aren't fate grinding is because there is now an alternative, and the people not fate grinding prefer the new alternative over fate grinding, e.g. "People that like fates" are the minority.

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It isn't a matter of what they enjoy more, it is a matter of what is fastest. They could still get good enough exp before the buff, but it wasn't best. Now it is best, so that is why people do it (on the topic of dungeons). Enjoyment is not included in exp grinding or endgame, it is all about finishing it fast and get the hell out of there.

Fates to me became more fun *now*. I'm level 50 and don't really need to participate in them but I do so because they are no longer being done by 849769 people. Now it feels like I'm actually doing something and helping out, not mindlessly grinding. Really happy with how they are now and will definitely use them to level other classes.

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Originally Posted by Mazi

1. They didn't nerf FATE experience they just made dungeons better so spam FATES all you want.

2. FATES are still the best for getting company seals (for those of us who aren't already max rank and swim in the things)

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They made FATEs HUGELY less productive if my first post-nerf visit to Coerthas yesterday is anything to go by.

The mobs now take forever to die, the FATE where you have to kill spawns of Goobues took around half a dozen of us 10+ mins to complete, for all of 9.5k XP, that makes it worthless compared to the number of Leves you can complete in the same time. Other FATEs in the zone were similarly way-overbuffed in comparison to before.

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Originally Posted by Autumnfire

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-etRVlhrXJ6...sy-Posters.jpg

We like FATEs. We like FATEs not. We like FATEs. We like FATEs not…..

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What happened was that you had a very vocal minority that whined about FATES and how they "carry people" and "they don't teach jobs!"

All that was needed was to boost dungeon exp, not simultaneously scale FATE difficulty this drastically. Sure, it sucked that you arrived at a FATE and find out that it's almost done already. But the massive difficulty jump wasn't needed.

The change was great for tanks and healers, horrible for DPS. Because while tanks and healers get instaqueues, DPS are left to spend ten minutes burning down getting 9k EXP on a worthless FATE. Even leves have better exp. So it's even MORE of a grind than it was before.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

What happened was that you had a very vocal minority

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I would caution against use of majority or minority or anything that presents yourself as knowing the numbers. Because you don't.

FATEs were never supposed to be the primary way to level, nor was leves, nor dungeons. Devs designed this game for people to do some of each.

But in 2.0 it was plain obvious that FATE grinding was the single most efficient method to leve, by far, and guild leves were laughed at for being useless. Look up any leveling advice posted during that period and you'll see comments referring to FATEs and FATEs only. "Party up, Flash or spam Blizzard 2 and you get gold easy."

Difficulty jump? There were no difficulty to speak of for FATEs in 2.0. Now that primarily was due to the hordes of players spamming FATEs all over, so now the difficulties are scaled in a more timely manner. (Back in 2.0 the difficulties were already scaled, there were just too many people doing them that they're almost always overrun even at the top end of their scaling.)

I've been leveling alt classes this past month or so and I find the FATE difficulties quite fine now. The grind in FFXIV is a child's play already. What should be improved isn't removing the grind, but to make it a proper grind, i.e. make it feel less of a grind.

When I applied for beta for this game, I was under the impression that it would take anyone up to a year to max all the classes. I was horribly wrong. Take away the "grind" more and we might as well remove levels altogether. :(

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

I really wish people would stop using "viable" to mean "best". That's not what it means.

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OMFG THIS!!!

This bugs the ever-living sh*t out of me....

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Originally Posted by Arcaloid

FATE exp still not bad compare to dungeons, the current situation just shows most ppl dislike FATE grinding (which actually surprised me).

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I think this is the key takeaway. FATEs are still great exp, I do one whenever I come across it, but after grinding the hell out of 2.5 classes doing FATEs, I have absolutely zero desire to grind any more. I'll take my time, slowly leveling up with daily quests, dungeons, guildhests, battle leves, and the occasional FATE instead of sitting around and grinding them. I'm sure many people agree.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

They made FATEs HUGELY less productive if my first post-nerf visit to Coerthas yesterday is anything to go by.

The mobs now take forever to die, the FATE where you have to kill spawns of Goobues took around half a dozen of us 10+ mins to complete, for all of 9.5k XP, that makes it worthless compared to the number of Leves you can complete in the same time. Other FATEs in the zone were similarly way-overbuffed in comparison to before.

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LOL, because the 9.5k exp you received at the end is all you receive, amirite?

How about the other 10-15k you probably got killing the mobs during that 10 minute period?

First thing I noticed after 2.1 was that FATEs took longer and spawned more mobs. I immediately noticed that now, instead of basically all of your exp being the bonus for completing the FATE, you also got an equal, if not larger, share just from killing the mobs. The only FATEs that need an adjustment are the Solo monster FATEs, as these one also make the solo harder but there isn't more to kill, so the Exp/Time ratio is horrible (and I skip them whenever I run past one because of it).

Fates now are so much better. They remind more of beta, before people realized the zerg potential and ruined them. Fates can be fun now, it takes time and even strategy to win. Instead of just tab-cycle aero spam. So I for one am happy about the change. They are still as good for EXP, but they are more of a challenge.

Thanks to the way they work now, you could probably go to any level appropriate zone and do fates. Especially if you have some friends to join in. Sure, there are no longer 30+ people in Aleport, but, you can now safely avoid that zone altogether. Just go to Camp Drybone (for instance) instead and do some fates you've probably never done before.

I kinda miss the fates. It was a nice thing to do after a day of work, just log in and pound out a few levels no matter the class. Thankfully Im leveling Warrior next so I dont have to worry about queue times and I ca just keep chaining dungeons with no downtime, but if I was a dps it wouldnt be nearly as easy.

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Originally Posted by Mazi

2. FATES are still the best for getting company seals (for those of us who aren't already max rank and swim in the things)

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Best way is company leves.