It's too soon to nerf content!

Can we all agree on this? There are a lot of people who want to fight the "real" Twintania but haven't gotten there yet. Casuals aren't there yet so why nerf it now? Removing the lockout is fine to help casuals catch up but let's not nerf the content (yet). Give us a year at least!

A full year to get to the end game content? Honestly, if your taking one full year to get there.....even casuals will have passed you up. If you haven't seen or beaten Twintania yet its either because you waited to even start the end game or your probably not good enough to do it period.

6 months is a very large, generous window on content. Making sure newer players can beat it when "new" content comes out is important for the health of the game and to attract new player, as well as keep everyone on a similar level playing field.

If content stayed the way it was for a year, and they add new stuff every 3 months.....you do realize how much it would take if you needed to catch someone up for your static or raid group?

not really. i think its a pretty good idea. since the ones stuck on current content will definitely still be stuck with the new content when it arrives. at least they can complete the tier below. keeps em playing rather than giving up due to not being able to catch up.

They should wait the new content for cristal tower at patch 2.3 before nerf bahamut T1-5.
If Bahamut is nerfed and the lockout removed, CT will be useless.

I 100% disagree. We are talking about coil here. Coil is supposed to be hardcore content. Players who don't have the skill level can play the main story, hard dungeons, crystal tower and maybe even extreme primal as they are added. Coil should be something to aspire to; not be handed. You make it seem like they will be missing out on all of this content because they are stuck when 90% of the game'a content is outside of coil.

Also, what's your definition of casual? Add up all the hours it takes to level from 1 to 50, complete all the main storyline and be a high enough item level o fight twintania. You think "casual" players will hit that within 6 months (and gain the experience to beat him)? Really? I see casual as being 4 to 5 hours a week tops.

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

not really. i think its a pretty good idea. since the ones stuck on current content will definitely still be stuck with the new content when it arrives. at least they can complete the tier below. keeps em playing rather than giving up due to not being able to catch up.

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Couldn't agree more. How can nobody see this? When the lockout is removed, crystal tower, and the 5 current duty roulette dungeons basically become obsolete.

Remove the lockout but keep the difficulty, even as a player who hasn't passed beyond turn 2 I think that's fair. I was never really a fan of the lockout in the first place it just tells us SE isn't confident in the games offerings to allow us to play when we want as hard as we want.

Personally the game needs to focus on other areas rather than just the singular goal of gear progression but that's just me I guess.

Hell it's not like they didn't try and fall flat on their faces elsewhere though (Housing)

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Also, what's your definition of casual? Add up all the hours it takes to level from 1 to 50, complete all the main storyline and be a high enough item level o fight twintania. You think "casual" players will hit that within 6 months (and gain the experience to beat him)? Really? I see casual as being 4 to 5 hours a week tops.

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I think it depends more on what type of player you are. If your someone who plays 5 hours a week and doesnt care sure it might not be 6 months to do it. Of course at that rate, even a year wont be enough time for them.

However, I know people who have a family/job/etc and play 30ish hours a month who are turn 5 and have been for a while. Heck I know someone who didnt even start till November who is "casual" and got to 50 over holidays.

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Originally Posted by Tandy

I know people who have a family/job/etc

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That's impossible, people can't have a real life and play a game for any extended period of time.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Remove the lockout but keep the difficulty, even as a player who hasn't passed beyond turn 2 I think that's fair. I was never really a fan of the lockout in the first place it just tells us SE isn't confident in the games offerings to allow us to play when we want as hard as we want.

Personally the game needs to focus on other areas rather than just the singular goal of gear progression but that's just me I guess.

Hell it's not like they didn't try and fall flat on their faces elsewhere though (Housing)

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That'd create a market for T1-4 carry

You can still fight the real Twintania. Every time you wipe, leave the turn and go back in. No Echo buff, same Twin.

I'm sick of waiting. Nerf her before 2.2 I say. Who's gonna bother doing Twintania more than once when a trial is gonna give better weapons.

If they nerf it now, T5 can be more than "something to be ignored" for so many people.

I'm a married attorney with a kid on they way. I feel like I play "too" much at times. Just reached turn 4 (item level 76). I don't want to have to put life on hold to constantly rush content to insure I get the full experience. A year isn't a long time when there are countless other activities the unskilled can do outside of the hardcore coil content. Because there was the initial 1 through 50 climb I feel that additional time is justified. After the initial year - then yeah - maybe 6 months is plenty to nerf patch content.

I knew this would happen long before any sort of 'nerf' was officially announced... based on one simple fact:

SE made this fight part of the main storyline, so... when they introduce more patches that progress the main story even more, they will need to make Twintania easy enough for the more casual players to beat it. Besides, even if no official nerf was announced... more gear is coming out, and that will necessarily make the fight 'easier' anyway. Even groups in full i90 gear currently can have issues with Twintania if they aren't saving their cooldowns for the right spots on conflags, but with better gear... well, it'll just be easy, like breaking the jails in Titan Ex.

My suggestion? You have anywhere between a month to two months to beat it... So get to it. :)

Masamune: I understand your situation, but you have to remember that there are players who play a lot more and are already far beyond bored with current content. I don't even think I play THAT much and I already have one i90 job, one i88, and one i80... People who I consider 'hardcore' are itching for something new, as Twintania has been the 'hardest' content since the game was released. People have had it on farm for months. I understand why they are moving on. I'm sorry you didn't get to experience it when it was superhard but they aren't going to isolate the players who are complaining they have nothing to do just because you have *too* much to do. Keep in mind that after the FIRST group beat Twintania, they nerfed it for all of us... so only a few select groups of people have seen Twintania in its former glory. Now twisters are far easier to avoid.

i got a lot of people in my free company who are casual and do not play often they are on turn 2-4 so i don't see why content is getting i guess nerfed so early this is not hardcore content anymore now... i really hope that they don't do anything for the drops it's gonna be dumb if we can just run turn 1 2 4 10 times and grab all the gear then ct will clearly be useless and other things. Casuals are doing coil and passing it no need nerf :)

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I'm sick of waiting. Nerf her before 2.2 I say. Who's gonna bother doing Twintania more than once when a trial is gonna give better weapons.

If they nerf it now, T5 can be more than "something to be ignored" for so many people.

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Going by the current trend of primal weapons it's very likely that leviathan weapons could be iLv85 or 90 which still leaves room for twintania weaps to be BiS. Players will also have to beat 5 to progress to 6+ so even if it's a small amount there will always be people doing 5.

There's still about two more months to go. Plenty of time to reach ilvl90 and attempt it.

It's not too soon. It's exactly correct. When a new tier of content is released, the previous tier becomes deprecated and is usually adjusted to allow for greater utilization. Modern MMO design 101.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Can we all agree on this? There are a lot of people who want to fight the "real" Twintania but haven't gotten there yet. Casuals aren't there yet so why nerf it now? Removing the lockout is fine to help casuals catch up but let's not nerf the content (yet). Give us a year at least!

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It depends entirely on how they go about nerfing the content.

Actual changes which drastically change the difficulty? Then, yes, it is too soon.

Via being able to obtain better gear, and maybe some minor tweaks to mechanics? No, that's perfectly fine. Better gear will always make content easier. That's why you work on improving your gear, and don't go running into <insert content name> without meeting the basic requirements in terms of gear score.

Minor tweaks, like a slight max HP reduction, are also fine because in the end that doesn't really make a big difference. For most fights, currently, it's about knowing a rotation of abilities or how to react to them. A high max HP simply drags out the fight for longer, and if you can already dodge the attacks/know what to do in the fight, then it only changes how long it takes to defeat the content not how much skill/attention is required.

It's only a problem if Twintania becomes as easy to kill as the Goobbue in WP.

Of course, with the Echo buff, that's an interesting middle-ground way to nerf something. It's not direct, but it can be used to make it easier for the group. The way it seemed to be presented, is that you have a little more room for error, but not drastically so that you can make errors all day and still beat it. Personally, as long as it is optional, I have no issue with it.

(Sure, why wouldn't people use it if its there. That's the same as asking why do people only seem to want to beat ADS in T2 via enrage, and not by the normal mechanics that are set. Because easiest route will always be more favourable.)

I could see your point if new content wasn't also being released. You'll have new stuff to do that casuals won't be able to do for awhile.

When you blaze a trail it becomes easier for others to follow. That is the way it works.

Anybody wants to experience the true difficulty of the fight can get their butt in gear and do it before 2.2.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Can we all agree on this?

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Nope, don't agree.

Look this is how I see it as well as everyone does every boss and instance can be beaten you just have to know how to play your job and mainly DODGE..... As far as the nerf goes I came from FFXI so if any of you who played know how long it took them to nerf CoP back then it was basically either you were going to complete it or you just wasn't going to progress in the game no matter how much you cried NOTHING got nerfed until 2 years ago and FFXI been out since 2002 now people cry online and have things handed to them it doesnt matter if you are a Hardcore player or Casual player you can get it done without the nerf and if you can't then I suggest you find another game to play because nerfing the game takes the fun out of it and when people beat all the instances and have nothing else to do until the next patch update you going to hear more crying about there's nothing to do and they are going to unsub.... well you wanted it this way so why cry about it now.

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Originally Posted by Dilu_Bakari

Look this is how I see it as well as everyone does every boss and instance can be beaten you just have to know how to play your job and mainly DODGE..... As far as the nerf goes I came from FFXI so if any of you who played know how long it took them to nerf CoP back then it was basically either you were going to complete it or you just wasn't going to progress in the game no matter how much you cried NOTHING got nerfed until 2 years ago and FFXI been out since 2002 now people cry online and have things handed to them it doesnt matter if you are a Hardcore player or Casual player you can get it done without the nerf and if you can't then I suggest you find another game to play because nerfing the game takes the fun out of it and when people beat all the instances and have nothing else to do until the next patch update you going to hear more crying about there's nothing to do and they are going to unsub.... well you wanted it this way so why cry about it now.

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So either it never gets nerfed and you cant progress and unsub, or everything is nerfed and you have nothing to do so you unsub. How about that nice middle ground, where new content is challenging and only the "top" players beat it till the next new content comes out, when its reduced in difficulty and everyone can beat it, and brand new hard content is released that only the "top" players can beat.

Having things that no one aside from the top 10% or so ever see is WASTED DEVELOPMENT RESOURCES. Think about it, why spend time, money and man hours on stuff that the majority of your playerbase wont see? It makes no fiscal sense. Having a cycle of Hard top tier and easier 2nd tier content is the way to go. It keeps everyone with something to do, means everyone sees the content and ensures new players and old alike can jump in and get going anytime.

I don't know why people are so shocked and amazed. This was announced from the beginning.

"Too early to nerf content"

It would've been 7 months since release when they nerf their first piece of content. That's perfect timing. What are you talking about? And also, YoshiP even said at many interviews with numerous websites, including video interviews, BEFORE LAUNCH, that as a new piece of content comes through, the last piece will be nerfed.

Not a single soul complained. In fact, it was rather the opposite. Everyone was supportive of it. Now fast forward 5 months, those people who were okay with it/didn't complain back then, are now complaining now?

You should of known what you would've gotten yourself into, before you purchased this game.

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Not a single soul complained. In fact, it was rather the opposite. Everyone was supportive of it. Now fast forward 5 months, those people who were okay with it/didn't complain back then, are now complaining now?

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Because existance of hard content was given in that kind of statement. Yet nothing relative hard exists in this game. People expected 12-hour-long-fights to be nerfed to 2-hour-long-fights. Not 10 minutes to 3 minutes. People expected 1% drop rates to be buffed to 15% drop rates. Not 100% to "trash". People expected content, that can be walkedthrough only by 5% of playerbase be nerfed to be accessable by 30%. Not 50% to 100%.

Yes, all those assumpotions were made by playerbase basing on FFXI experience, but, damn, you can't blame them, because no one in their mind expected that amount of idiocy from developers of longliving company.

Another special snowflake

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Originally Posted by Vantol

Because existance of hard content was given in that kind of statement. Yet nothing relative hard exists in this game. People expected 12-hour-long-fights to be nerfed to 2-hour-long-fights. Not 10 minutes to 3 minutes. People expected 1% drop rates to be buffed to 15% drop rates. Not 100% to "trash". People expected content, that can be walkedthrough only by 5% of playerbase be nerfed to be accessable by 30%. Not 50% to 100%.

Yes, all those assumpotions were made by playerbase basing on FFXI experience, but, damn, you can't blame them, because no one in their mind expected that amount of idiocy from developers of longliving company.

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This game is not designed for the kind of challenge you want. Back when 1.0 went offline and I read about 2.0 coming I knew then it would not be like you want. If you didnt realize it I am sorry. This is obviously not the game for you. What we are getting is exactly what we were told. Period.

So first nerfing housing prices was bad because it was "hardcore long term content" and "casuals" were ruining it with their "entitlement", now nerfing content is good because "casuals" can catch up and people who are against nerfs are "entitled"? Ok, perfect arguments every time, great job team.

Greetings,

We understand that you have different concerns regarding the game content and we are sorry to hear that you are unsatisfied with the current way that FINAL FANTASY XIV is being developed.

Although there are a few users that offered constructive feedback within this thread, I see myself forced to close it due to the fact that you have already opened another thread based on the same topic.

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