Question About Raising Party Members in a Fight

I have a question: I often notice that healers don't Raise DPS during fights. I'm assuming this is because it costs a whopping amount of MP, and KOs are more common during difficult fights where the tank still needs to be healed.

I play SMN and most of my DPS comes from DoT. As long as all my debuffs have a good amount of time before expiring I'll take that time to rez a fellow DPS (cause I know how much it sucks to catch that one random AoE). I never want to start a rez if I know the healer is going to be doing it though. A glance at the party list shows who is casting what and healers are always looking there. So when I start casting Res do healers notice and continue healing the party instead of casting Raise themselves? Were they never planning on Raising until the mob/boss is defeated?

I basically want to know how least to infringe upon the healer's job while also being helpful in sharing a burden that is easily taken care of by a SMN.

Healers will usually raise when swiftcast is available (1 minute cooldown). If you see the healers have already raised once, chances are they won't be raising again anytime soon.

It is a good idea to simply tell the healers that you have raise duty before the fight. Clarity always works wonder.

I made a macro announcing that im raising a party member. It's worked wonders and has prevented a lot of wasted swiftcasts/MP.

Every time a summoner raises someone, god ressurects 10000 kittens that have been killed for people doing stupid actions.
So yes, feel free to raise people when you can safely do it, and as soon as you can do it.
Especially if it's the other healer :)

I'll never raise a DPS right when they get killed.
I'll do it when I know I'll have a chance to safely cast raise, which can sometimes be long because we're about to get attacked by plumes, lands, balls, dashes, explosions, bombs, tornadoes, spaceships crashing etc etc... which means I have to heal the party. Sometimes I'll never get a safe chance to raise the dead DPS.
In fact, I'll never raise a dps if Swiftcast isn't up or if I'm afraid to get s'one else (tank or myself) killed during the process.


So yes, feel free to cast all the raises you can :)


Oh, and I hate the summoner casting Physicks when he could be raising someone instead. >.<;

Thanks for the responses! I will make sure to create a macro announcing when I'm rezzing.

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Originally Posted by Nalou

So yes, feel free to raise people when you can safely do it, and as soon as you can do it.
Especially if it's the other healer :)

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Safety first! Also I have definitely saved the party from certain death by raising a healer. Sidenote/question: Do parties without a SMN/ARC just face an insta-loss when the healer bites it and the boss isn't close to dying?

EDIT: On my first Isgebind clear I applied a few DoTs and just spent the rest of the time throwing Physicks and raising the other DPS lol, that was an exception though. I've noticed I rarely need to Physick like I used to during lower level dungeons so I'll just stop doing it minus the rare emergency.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Safety first! Also I have definitely saved the party from certain death by raising a healer. Sidenote/question: Do parties without a SMN/ARC just face an insta-loss when the healer bites it and the boss isn't close to dying?

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It depends on the fight, or the time/phase into the fight, and the people into the fight.
Sometimes even a raise from the summoner is pointless because we start with no mp, sometimes it can work without a summoner raising because the fight paces down at this point and we have easy time to raise, or sometimes the tank have tons of cooldowns to pop to survive while we raise, and sometimes they don't...

When learning a fight, it's always good to raise so you can keep learning.
When farming a fight, sometimes it's just better to call a wipe when someone dies because you know your team is messed up.

In general, rezzes should go SMN first, then SCH, then WHM. The SMN's job can most afford* the loss of a cooldown and GCD in order to swiftcast rez - the monster will still be there to damage when you are done, I assure you. The tank might not be there to heal if a healer rezzes at a bad time. If there is no SMN or his/her swiftcast is on CD, the SCH schould be the next to res, as they have fewer mana issues than WHM. If that is not possible, then the WHM can rez. If none of the healers have swiftcast up, please stop getting killed by things. Actually, please stop getting killed by things all the time.

*As with all rules, this has exceptions. Please do not have a summoner swiftcast rez during, say, fast conflags, or any other sort of dps race mechanic. Be smart about it.

When I see a SMN raise, I appreciate it. Just please make a macro that you're doing it because I've had problems before when a SMN didn't announce it and we raised one person at the same time.

If everyone who can raise has used their Swiftcast TO raise and there's still someone who needs another raise....yeah well, that'd be why they're not raising. :p But that's an Extreme example. ...pun absolutely intended.

I'm usually pretty good about being a trigger finger on Swiftraising in fights, but unless I can trust the rest of the party to not get slammed by something in the meantime, I generally do not raise without Swiftcast. Especially so if the other healer is down. But there are times where it can work. It's less about MP and more about keeping the rest of the party on their feet so you don't need to raise them too.

Is there more context to this? What fights? Some fights are very unforgiving to raised people; they're more than likely going to go down again very shortly in some fights. The quickcast issue's already been mentioned, and some fights are just better off wiped and redone if someone goes down too early.

It depends on your group. Sometimes a healer will get there before you, but nobody will scold you for helping a healer out. Cast Swiftcast and make yourself this macro:

Code:

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/micon "Ressurection"
/ac "Ressurection" <t>
/p Raising <t> <se.7>

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Something along those lines. It's handy to let everyone know you've cast raise on them already.

Thank you for rezing! :)

You are right, with regards to me, on your thoughts. I watch the party the bars and check if someone else is raising before I start mine. A notification would be helpful, but I do check.
Also, regards timing. I will raise the DPS. I just won't do it until I have everyone else in good health, and there are no massive attacks about to happen. So sometimes they can be lying there for a few mins before I get to it....if u happen to have the time for it, please feel free!

Please just stop dying. Most of the attacks in the game are avoidable. It puts a major strain on the healers mp to raise someone. This is most notable when I solo heal Garuda Extreme. If a DPS dies early on or later on in the fight it's hard to raise them. I'll TRY to raise if I can but losing 800 mp when I only have 2500 left and need to save aetherflow stacks for lustrates is a pain.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Is there more context to this? What fights? Some fights are very unforgiving to raised people; they're more than likely going to go down again very shortly in some fights. The quickcast issue's already been mentioned, and some fights are just better off wiped and redone if someone goes down too early.

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I only just finished maxing my first class so I"m not familiar with every fight yet. For some dungeons I have a much better idea of when it would be a good time to raise. During those times when I feel it would not be taxing on me to raise someone I was wondering how to do so without overlapping with the healer.

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Originally Posted by Shmunkster

Thank you for rezing! :)

You are right, with regards to me, on your thoughts. I watch the party the bars and check if someone else is raising before I start mine. A notification would be helpful, but I do check.
Also, regards timing. I will raise the DPS. I just won't do it until I have everyone else in good health, and there are no massive attacks about to happen. So sometimes they can be lying there for a few mins before I get to it....if u happen to have the time for it, please feel free!

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You're welcome! Thanks for mentioning timing, I was curious about that as well. Most of the time the healer knows the fight better than I do so I don't take offense if I'm lying there for a while.

Thanks everyone for the helpful advice everyone! Except the one guy who suggested not dying, cause I mean, obviously.

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Originally Posted by RavenL

Please just stop dying. Most of the attacks in the game are avoidable. It puts a major strain on the healers mp to raise someone. This is most notable when I solo heal Garuda Extreme. If a DPS dies early on or later on in the fight it's hard to raise them. I'll TRY to raise if I can but losing 800 mp when I only have 2500 left and need to save aetherflow stacks for lustrates is a pain.

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You just need to manage your Aetherflow better. MP should never be an issue with Scholar. Telling people to stop dying is like saying 'stop losing, please win instead'. People don't set out to die unless they're trolling. It just happens.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

I basically want to know how least to infringe upon the healer's job while also being helpful in sharing a burden that is easily taken care of by a SMN.

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If you tell the healers at the start of the fight you'll handle raises, I guarantee you they'll love it, WHMs especially, they don't have Aetherflow to spam.

It depends largely on the fight. During titan hard mode, most average dps will simply die to tumults and weakness. Some endgame fights it's hard to spare one GCD on anything but a heal. But otherwise, I'm usually the first to drop a res. Macros go a long way towards reducing wasteful casts, especially those that use sound effects.

I res in the order I heal, healer > tank > DPS (or in some cases, tank > healer > DPS). If I'm running low on MP due to multiple Raise casts, if you keep dying repeatedly and are DPS and are therefore likely to die yet again, or if it's a particularly healing intense fight and I know we can handle the DPS without you, I'll generally avoid ressing as long as I can, purely because there are other higher priority tasks to take care of first. When I have time and Swiftcast is up, I'll pick you up.

I really love when a SMN can step in and pick up a res. It saves me time and MP, and generally a good healer will notice and love you for it! Communication can really help, but usually a healer will notice and definitely won't mind the extra help.

I hate seeing a healer picking someone up using Raise without Swiftcast while the other healer is struggling to keep the tank alive. If a healer is doing end-game content and hasn't unlocked Swiftcast that's a problem.

in some fights, raising people can be a liability like some have already stated, like the possibility that you can get caught up in an attack and die, or might miss a critical heal on the tank....or worst yet, watch the dps die again right after

fights like titan hm, if a person dies with weakness during phase 4 or after, i would never raise them again.....they are just an mp sink and going to die again (tumults during phase 5 can hurt) and titan ex

Our "Rez Priority" is SMN, SCH, WHM; its a mana issue. SMN usually have more to spare, then SCH, and WHM last.

Now...when to rez is something else entirely. If a heal has died, rez them ASAP (assuming its safe, but Swiftcast -> Rez means less danger), Tank ASAP (unless you've already decided tank dead = wipe), a good DPS also should be rezed fast, and "bad" DPS when you get a spare moment.

But really, when to Rez really comes down to knowing the fight and when its "ideal" to rez, and who has died.

Like others have said, if I don't raise a DPS immediately, its because I'm waiting for swiftcast to come back up.

And if more than one person is dead, my priority is the other healer > tank > dps who haven't died before > dps who have died before. But I also usually wait a couple seconds after they die to make sure I'm not rezzing the same person as someone else.

I also will rez people when it's convenient for me to rez people - so if its a high-damage part of the fight, you'll probably have to wait awhile. But IMO, it's up the whoever I'm rezzing to know when the appropriate time to accept the rez is.

^ This last part.

Man, sometimes I want to cry when it a rough fight I finally have a few seconds, so swiftcast-raise....and they accept it to rise in a whole wagon of pain. I get it...sometimes we forget to check, cos we are so excited to get that raise...but while you're dead, you can't get hurt, so take that momment to think! :)

Worst though, is when I raise someone and they run straight back into the fight. Don't have the patience to wait 5 seconds for the immunity to stop, me to cure (and buff if I can). Just run on in there....dead. Again. 5 seconds, dudes, that's all you needed to give me. Five tiny seconds.

:)

^ Yea tanks will do that all the time to me. I get it, the sooner they get back aggro, the easier it is for them. But getting back aggro is useless if they die again right away.

AS the last two posts have said, it is not up to the healer to know when to cast Raise. We res when we can. It's up to the person accepting the res to know when to accept. It really bothers me when healers get yelled at for "ressing at the wrong time" when you have the control over when to accept.

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Originally Posted by Shmunkster

^ This last part.

Man, sometimes I want to cry when it a rough fight I finally have a few seconds, so swiftcast-raise....and they accept it to rise in a whole wagon of pain. I get it...sometimes we forget to check, cos we are so excited to get that raise...but while you're dead, you can't get hurt, so take that momment to think! :)

Worst though, is when I raise someone and they run straight back into the fight. Don't have the patience to wait 5 seconds for the immunity to stop, me to cure (and buff if I can). Just run on in there....dead. Again. 5 seconds, dudes, that's all you needed to give me. Five tiny seconds.

:)

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Just got raised? Better shoulder tackle into an AoE.

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Originally Posted by kelmana

Just got raised? Better shoulder tackle into an AoE.

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LOL I hate when I see that.

I ressed myself in Tumults once and the other healer was like 'nooo don't rez!', but I took my hand off the keyboard knowing full well that I wouldn't take damage until I did a skill.

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Originally Posted by CalvatE

I ressed myself in Tumults once and the other healer was like 'nooo don't rez!', but I took my hand off the keyboard knowing full well that I wouldn't take damage until I did a skill.

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Yeah, that invulnerability is useful and I definitely abuse it lol. Unfortunately, I've seen people just ignore it...I rez someone during Titan EX, they accept during a Gaol phase...all I can do is pray they don't use an action, see them do it and BAM! they're dead from the AoE...

thats because we are waiting for swiftcast, res takes a long cast time