Average ilvl system should be weighted

A player with an i90 weapon, a bunch of i70's except for an i55 ring is most definitely going to outperform a player with i55 weapon, i70's and 1 i90 ring, but would currently have the same ilvl average.

I suggest changing average ilvl to take your total armor 50% and weapon 50%.

Also there needs to be a distinction between an nq crafted i70 vs the same crafted hq melded. Crafted i70's are equivalent to DL only when HQ, so any nq crafted i70's should have a penalty, and adding melds should give a bonus.

There's also the issue that a player could gear up in i90 accessories that don't relate to their job... not sure how that could be policed, other than scrapping the whole average ilvl system and just posting a player's weapon ilvl + their prime stat.

At the very least asking for this average to be weighted should be easy to implement and would make it a much more reliable indicator.

Is the segment of the population that is really affected by their iLvl that big?

I've had quite a few PF and DF parties that have had people gearing up in weird accessories (Casters using spare, off-classed i90 accessories to meet iLvl requirements for duties) that have then completely screwed over any chance the group has of winning by essentially gaming the system in a really stupid way. Weighting it may be difficult because having it be a fair weighting would take a lot of testing and trial-and-error, perhaps posting weapon level and prime stat may be more effective.

Either way, a change in the displayed and advertised item level average would be greatly appreciated! That, and maybe an explanation of how players are expected to clear certain content with the minimum required iLvl (Titan HM with i57, Garuda EX with i65 come to mind) :D

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Originally Posted by Terasan

That, and maybe an explanation of how players are expected to clear certain content with the minimum required iLvl (Titan HM with i57, Garuda EX with i65 come to mind) :D

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A thousand times this. I want to see a video of the developers clearing Haukke Manor Hard Mode or Pharos Sirius at ilvl 48 (or whatever the hell the minimum is) with zero wipes. There's no reason for players that low to be there, and it just causes suffering for everyone involved.

What it should do is take accessory melds into account, my paladin has 90 wep shield head body, rest are all 70. I have full gryphskin accessories and rosegold ear screws, each melded with +10 vit +12 parry +6 crit (1 ring has +4 det instead) I class these accessories much better than allagan, only downside is -5 bit on each accessory compared to allagan (dex makes up for parry and I'm at acc cap for coil) but I have a lot of extra str aswell as other stats, so I deal more dog and block more aswell.

If each acc was i90 my average level would be 85 not 76

I've never needed to do this but you can actually cheat the system even easier. Have an i90 accessory(for any job)? Then unequip everything else except that accessory and bam avg ilvl 90. Once inside, unequip it and put on normal gear.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

A thousand times this. I want to see a video of the developers clearing Haukke Manor Hard Mode or Pharos Sirius at ilvl 48 (or whatever the hell the minimum is) with zero wipes. There's no reason for players that low to be there, and it just causes suffering for everyone involved.

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So very true.

Here's the other side of the equation though.

Lets assume that we have staggered ILVLs for dungeons. (all numbers are made up for example purposes)

WP - 50
AK - 55
PS - 60
HM - 65

Now you have a player in Ilvl 90 gear going into Roulette. If the player does nothing they will be eligible for all the dungeons.
However. If the player unequips their gear and forces their ILVL down to 53 in some way, they can now control which roulette they go to.

This essentially defeats the entire purpose of the system by letting players "game the system".

Now I'm going to reverse the issue.

My White Mage is Ilvl 73
My Dragoon is ILVL 50

When My Dragoon goes into Roulette, I may end up in content that I don't feel comfortable trying because my gear isn't up to that level. So my only recourse is to NOT do roulette on that class.

The only possible solution to cover both issues would be to tie progression to each class, so I cant go to AK on my Dragoon because I haven't beaten WP on my Dragoon. I've seen no evidence that such a solution is even possible given this system.

You'd be better off figuring out a way to use Level Sync to bring roulette players UP to a certain Ilvl for that run.

So if PS requires 60 and I'm only 50, it bumps me up to 60 so that I can get the job done. I'd clearly do much better if I was at 65+ though.

I just wish it would average your ilevel correctly when wearing gear that takes up 2 slots (tank and caster head/ body and tank legs/feet).

My PLD is in full70+ gear but has an ilevek rating of 63 because my feet don't have anything due to me still wearing the Heavy Darklight Legs/ Feet....which is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by megaman

I've never needed to do this but you can actually cheat the system even easier. Have an i90 accessory(for any job)? Then unequip everything else except that accessory and bam avg ilvl 90. Once inside, unequip it and put on normal gear.

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The averaging figures that an empty slot is ilvl 0. This tactic would actually leave you with an I level around 20.

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Originally Posted by megaman

I've never needed to do this but you can actually cheat the system even easier. Have an i90 accessory(for any job)? Then unequip everything else except that accessory and bam avg ilvl 90. Once inside, unequip it and put on normal gear.

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No, it doesn't work like that. I'm and i86 WHM. If I take my robe off, I'm i79. Take my pants off, I'm i72 (and naked).

With just an i90 ring on, I'm ilvl 20.

I knew you were wrong as soon as I read it. Sub level 50 jobs ilvl is always lower due to only get accessories at irregular intervals.

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Originally Posted by Katchii

I just wish it would average your ilevel correctly when wearing gear that takes up 2 slots (tank and caster head/ body and tank legs/feet).

My PLD is in full70+ gear but has an ilevek rating of 63 because my feet don't have anything due to me still wearing the Heavy Darklight Legs/ Feet....which is ridiculous.

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I've done the math just to check and found that when equipped with a multi-slot or 2 handed item the locked slot is factored into the average as a copy of the item locking the slot.

In full Heavy Darklight armor(4 pieces ilevel 70), Curtana Zenith (90), Holy Shield Zenith(ilevel90), 4 Darklight Accessories(4 pieces ilevel 70) and 1 Hopilite Accessory (ilevel 60) my ilevel is 72.

If the multi-slot items cause the math to ignore the slot for ilevel, the math would be like this:
(90 * 2 + 70 * 8 + 60)/11 = 72.73

If the multi-slot items count as multiple items for ilevel the math would look like this:
(90 * 2 + 70 * 10 +60)/13 = 72.30

If the empty slots were being factored when you equipped multi-slot items but the total was not altered the total would be this:
(90 * 2 + 70 * 8 + 60 + 0 * 2)/13 = 61.53

I suspect that you are only ilevel 63 due to your accessories or weapon. If by full Darklight you mean Darklight Macual and a Darklight Kite that would put you in the 60s.

iLVL is BS imo.
You can not cheat the system like that, ilvl works by adding together the ilvls of the equipment you have and dividing it by slots available, however you can cheat by buying one set of i90 accessories and using it for classes to increase your ilvl.
iLvL should be replaced with a stat based system e.g healers would need X Healing potency, Dps attack potency, Tanks - some sort of value based of Vit and Strength etc.
Despite how good someone is, someone with shitty gear is only going to get so far so benchmark requirments are needed but not in the form of how it is.

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I suspect that you are only ilevel 63 due to your accessories or weapon. If by full Darklight you mean Darklight Macual and a Darklight Kite that would put you in the 60s

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You're probably right, I hadn't thought about my accessories. I'll check the math on my character tonight.

Agree, this system needs to be reconfigured. Some slots, especially the weapon, needs to be worth more than other slots.

Does anyone else think it odd that tome costs already reflect weights where item level does not? I can buy a 375-tome ring or an 825-tome cuirass. One is worth more than twice as many stat points and costs more than twice as many tomes, but the ilvl averaging system handles them as identically valuable.

I think reading into it with respect to crafted and non-crafted items with HQ vs. NQ would be a bit too much. It's too hard to reflect the individual value of items that way, and NQ items can be melded to have the same stats as HQ.

Also can we make broken gear count as lvl 0? Just had the displeasure of doing a Wanderer's Palace run on my i83 sch with a tank who forgot to repair his gear, most of it broke before last boss making him insanely hard to heal, took 3 attempts, but we managed it.

But here's the kicker.

I then switch to my SMN alt and queue up, and get him as a tank with exactly the same HP as he had with all his broken gear last run.

So I'm like hold up, hold up. Did you repair your gear? I say I just ran with him on other character, he goes lol that's funny. Then we proceed to wipe on first set of trash mobs cause he has literally no defense, and I say "yeah, funny except for the part where we can't do the run." I was polite enough but mentioned our whm with 3600 hp and mog weapon wasn't going to do as good of a job as my sch in keeping you up and didn't think it would happen. Of course whm gets butthurt @ that, I say I'm not saying you're bad, but tank's busted so it'd be too rough. Tank also gets butthurt, which really pissed me off, he says "well tbh I don't even want to tank for you anymore, so please vote dismiss me"...ended up doing vote abandon instead and it passed.

The game should judge people off the amount of main stat they possess. For example, INT for BLM. DEX for BRD. That would get around this issue, and be a more accurate measure of a character's power level.

I agree.

I think it should be something like this

weapon: 30% (20%/10% for weapons with shields)
chest: 19%
legs: 15%
feet: 6%
hands: 6%
head: 6%
belt: 3%
neck: 3%
earrings: 3%
wrist: 3%
ring: 3%
ring: 3%

This would make it impossible to have a good ilevel without good armor and weapons. Accessories give a small boost so they barely factor.

The thing is you can discuss about ilvl and how we can balance it all the way you want, ilvl is a bad concept to start with. I have a tank who is pretty well geared. If I want, provided I'm willing to spend enough time doing so, I can buy ilvl 90 accessories and armor for let's say a monk. Do I know how to play monk ? No. But my average ilvl would be pretty high. People shouldn't focus that much on ilvl. Sure skill without gear won't let you go through most of final battles but a okayer without skill is terrible.
I've done T1 three days ago with a dragoon, full 90 (except for one ring). Everything was bought with tomes. He kept on dying with caduceus back attack, making no effort at all to avoid it...

Gear is easy to get

a good chunk of the population should have their main i90 and most likely a off class i80+

People will figure a way out to discriminate on gear one way or another when it comes to PF crazy expectation

Just roll with it because people don't change

edit: Oh and most dungeons are face roll even with minimum iLevel people just don't know how to play their job. No joke

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

I agree.

I think it should be something like this

weapon: 30% (20%/10% for weapons with shields)
chest: 19%
legs: 15%
feet: 6%
hands: 6%
head: 6%
belt: 3%
neck: 3%
earrings: 3%
wrist: 3%
ring: 3%
ring: 3%

This would make it impossible to have a good ilevel without good armor and weapons. Accessories give a small boost so they barely factor.

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except chest and pants carry same weight. so they'd both just be 17%

i find the ilvl system as complete mistake.
Reasoning: I have some gear on my War. Coil Boots, Pants, Myth head, Torso from CT (of light), belt from CT and dl hands. Accessories are all DL except one ring that is myth. The weapon is a relic.
Thats 79ilvl with acc = 406 (i think). I can't hit a standing tree in coil with that number. It doesn't matter if i have 8k hp or god knows how much parry or crit. Having 406 acc for coil = ilvl 0. Thats why the system isn't good.

So what am i doing? Puting my coil boots and pants in the inventory (90 ilvl armor) and putting on my DL boots+pants (ilvl70) because they have +46 acc (and the boots and pants have a sum of 0 acc on them). With that and some food i can get to around 460 (around that) and thats not the best, but works (somehow).

Now when you understand the real issue around the ilvl (as a numerical value that represent... actually nothing) you may can try to find a way to fix the issue.

I would recommend having a stat check, that would check if a character can enter the fight, if not, what stat is under the minimum, and maybe an item (armor or consumable) that would fix the issue for that stat (for that class).

That way you would eliminate primal selling and coil selling (at least for some players).