Tanking problems

Just started with the game, it's awesome for many - many things. But now I'm kinda stumbling on really annoying things.

I play a gladiator, the tank class and I did a dungeon run now, worst experience ever. The whole group went ahead of me all the time, attacked mobs before I had the chance to even reach em .. and the most shocking thing, I couldn't take aggro back. It's like whoever attacks first gets the aggro, spamming enmity skills did not help ANYTHING!

Further in the dungeon I realized the Arcanist had been using his red pet, which is a tank one, and did not want to change to his dps pet. Funny thing is, that enmity the pet gets is apparently ten times better then mine, he had most of the aggro (and I couldnt take it back) and it seemed to practically have replaced me to the point I was just /following the group around because I was just REPLACED.

What's going on here?!

Another thing, why can I only post with 1000 letters here? Kinda defeats the purpose of a forum discussion if you can't even write down what you want to say.

But out of all the most shocking is how enmity does so little and how a silly pet can replace a tank. I hope this is only the case for low level (which is already bad on its own) because this just put a huge dent in my will to play any kind of tank in this game.

As for the tanking part: You may have been grouped with higher level, better geared players. Even with level sync it can influence. And yes, low level dungeons are so easy that even a mage can tank sometimes. I started with Gladiator and was my first lv50, my advice is use flash in between your weapon enmity skills rotation. retaking enmity with no a lot of enmity skills in low level dungeons is a pain, but it gets better/easier.

As for the forum limit: Yup sucks, but there is a loophole. Just write everything you want, if you get limited, post it anyways, and edit it asap, on the edit post yoh won't have the 1000 character limit. : )

You're not doing anything wrong. Especially in low level content DPS will just do whatever they want because mobs don't usually hit hard enough to kill them. Additionally PLD is a little gimped tanking wise at low level (It's doable if you've got experience) so once DPS have started pulling and grabbing agro all over the place it's unlikely you'll be able to get it back.

Just keep at it. I'd also recommend marking mobs to help direct DPS to the mob you're going to maintain the highest threat on.

Welcome to Eorzea! Tanking is an artform that does take some getting used to, and especially early on. Luckily though, GLA is actually quite easy to learn to tank with, as the abilities it gets to do this are very straightforward in how they're used. The first thing I have to ask though, is have you done your level 15 class quest from the GLA's Guild in Ul'dah? If you have, then you would have gained an ability called Shield Lob. This ability is very useful for tanking, specifically, 'pulling' the enemy ('mob') right at the start.

Once the enemy has reached you, use Flash when it's close. Flash, despite it's name, is very similar to FFXI's Provoke - it is your main hate generating tool, along with your weapon skills. Then keep alternating between Flash, and the weapon skill combo Fast Blade-Savage Blade or Fast Blade-Riot Blade (the former generates more hate in itself, but the later one restores MP, which is very helpful if you're using Flash a lot, because Flash is a spell).

After three or four rounds of Flash/Weapon Skills, the enemy should be well and truly focused on you (your character should have the letter A over their name in the party list), if not already dead. Then simply rinse and repeat on the next enemy. Your buffs like Convalescence and Rampart are also useful, but they're better saved for a tough enemy like a boss.

The ACN you had in your party might have also just been trolling your party sadly - most know not to use a tank pet in dungeons unless absolutely necessary for that reason - so don't take it to heart.

As for the posting restrictions on the forum, a lot of that was because of trolling on the Beta forum got really bad and thus had to have similar restrictions added, and I assume SE just didn't want to take any chances with the proper forum as well. They might remove them in the future, but the restrictions aren't too hard to get around (the 1000 character limit is anyway - just post your first paragraph, then immediately go back and edit it.).

Anyway, hopefully this has helped - asking for help here is already the first step done, as we all had to learn the game sometime (some of us are still learning ;)).

As a 50 warrior and 23 gladiator if I run a low level dungeon and someone else wants to aggro adds and attack first that's fine by me, anything to speed things up is good. I will just DPS as much as I can, which as a by product will generate the most enmity, unless DPS are overgeared. Basically it comes down to the healer if he can heal while the DPS go crazy that's fine, if he can't and they die it will be their fault and they won't do it again or they will rage quit. O and when a DPS does rage quit I laugh, a lot, because 8-10 seconds later you'll get another 1.

I think a lot of low level arcanists don't realize Topaz will steal aggro from the tank. They just know it is safer for them. They also don't realize their pet doesn't appear on the party list for the healer - which is important to point out to them.
You may have gotten people running alts who knew the dungeon or people who knew nothing about aggro. Low level dps spamming aoe's or conjurer's spamming medica is a common problem.
I don't consider myself a great tank but I don't normally have any trouble holding aggro.

Make sure you are doing your class quests for their extra skills and keeping all your gear up to date, it is incredibly important for tanks.

Your weapon is especially important as it determines how much enmity you get not just through damage but through enmity bonuses and even how much enmity you get with Flash.

Some people are dumb and don't know their roles. If they're running ahead and aggroing everything, they aren't letting you tank and, yes, it can be incredibly hard to get a mob back once someone else has been attacking it first. Even in higher level dungeons, it can take me half the fight using Flash and Overdrive to get something back on me. Sometimes the entire fight goes by, I'm all out of TP, and all I can do is just try to keep it stunned to do less damage to the healer or whoever decided to tank.

You can have all of your gear and levels and skills up, and this situation can still happen to you. Some people just don't know how to play.

Contrary to their role in a party, it is not the job of a DPS to do as much damage as fast as possible. They need to let the tank run ahead. Always. Never be in front of the tank. And they need to wait for the tank to get a hit or two in first. And, they need to watch their own enmity. If they are about to take it they need to slow their own damage to make it easier on the tank to keep it. Unfortunately arcanists and summonses using tank pets doesn't stop with the first couple of dungeons. Just let your party know you are new, ask the party to please let you pull first, ask arcanist to bring out their dps pet, etc.

You may have gotten some higher levels in the daily Roulette and they just want to plow through to get their reward and be done. They should know better than to aggravate a tank. Don't want that tank to quit or play another class, when they are stuck in DF for over an hour wondering where all the tanks go.

Just keep at it, keep learning, do your class quests (and later your job quests, etc.) and know that not all groups will be frustrating.

Thanks guys, I was halfway to checking out other classes but I still like gladiator's alot .. so I think I'll just continue on. I'm kinda new at tanking to begin with so it's not too easy, but it goes fine if people stay back and let me attack.

I do all my quests, in fact I put priority to main and class quests to get them on par for my level before doing other quests. I must say I do sometimes forget my "shield throw" ability so I should use that more often. All in all I guess I should just keep on trying as tank. :)

Btw, on lv.30 I should get the Paladin job right? So it's smart to get a Conjurer to lv.15 already?

hulk smash!!!!

Yes you will want to get PLD at 30. Or very soon after. You can still tank as GLD in your 30s mostly fine, but hitting the 40+ content, while the rest of your party is bringing their upgraded Jobs, will be hard to tank. So at some point, yep, get that CNJ going.

If you are out and about doing quests in the world, or hunting log, or whatever, you can always practice tanking on those mobs. Practice that Shield Lob. Shield Bash. Flash. Doing a full rotation. Flashing in the middle of rotation. Flash will not break your combo chain. Especially mobs that do some sort of line, aoe, or cone attack. Try to time your shield bash, or ways of avoiding that cone aoe easier (which is tanking as CLOSE to the mob as possible, so that you are at the very tip of the cone, and won't have to move as far to get out of it). So you can maybe get a lot more comfortable with your "tanking" abilities without actually being in a group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drhankeey

Btw, on lv.30 I should get the Paladin job right? So it's smart to get a Conjurer to lv.15 already?

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Yep.

Ideally you'll eventually want to take CNJ to level 34 so that your Paladin can cross-class Stoneskin (and Marauder to 26 for 'Foresight', 'Bloodbath' and 'Mercy Stroke') but wait until your Tank is higher than that.
(Whenever you level up a new class, you get a major exp boost if you already have another class that's higher level...)

Paladin works quite well without cross classing any abilities at all, Stoneskin is just a very very good "Nice to have"- especially once you hit 50 and start running harder dungeons.

DPS and healers shouldn't be running ahead of the tank (though on low-level content they can sometimes get away with playing badly). If people are running ahead of you, there's two basic possibilities:

1) They're new too, and don't know what they're doing.
2) They know they should let you lead, but they don't care.

Try starting out the dungeon by saying something along the lines of: "Hi everyone. I'm new at tanking, so bear with me and give me a moment to mark the mobs and get a blow or two in before you join the fighting. I need to learn how to do this."

The people in group (1) have been given some useful advice about how they should be playing their roles, and they've been given that advice in a context that won't offend their ego. (A lot of people get offended at well-meant advice if they think it sounds like criticism, but by pointing out that this advice comes from the fact that you're new rather than that they are, they're less likely to feel offended at the advice and therefore may have a better chance of following it.) The result could be that you get a better run, and they (as well as you) get better at their classes. win-win

The people in group (2) are likely running ahead because they see this as just another run through simple content, and they may not realize there's anyone in the group who wants more from it than they do (which is just a quick completion reward). They're running ahead because they know the content is simple enough (at least at their level and experience) that they can get away with taking aggro which the tank should properly have. The considerate players amongst this group would likely be willing to slow down to your level if they realize you need them to. They may even have some useful suggestions to make your job easier.

Of course, then there are the players who are simply jerks and are going to get mad at you for being new. These players can fall into either of the 2 groups I mentioned above, but won't take your advice either way. Some will just ignore you and run ahead anyway, while others will berate you for being bad at the game (despite the fact that running ahead of the tank shows them to be the ones who are playing badly). If they actually start harassing you, then you can report them for it, but otherwise there's not much you can do about being stuck with jerks in a random group.

Luckily, despite a few bad apples, the vast majority of players are nice and considerate. Once you get through several runs with considerate fellow players, you'll get enough practice at tanking properly that you'll get both better and quicker at it. As you get more skilled yourself, other players will be less tempted to run ahead of you.