Gathering Classes & 'Item Fatigue'

I can understand that Botanist, Fisher and Miner are inflicted with fatigue, just like all the other classes. It has to be balanced and fair, so I don't grumble about suffering the SP penalty whilst gathering, I usually work through it. However, the more time I have been spending at Camp Dragon Head and Camp Iron Lake lately, the more I have been growing increasingly frustrated with this apparent 'item fatigue'.

I am referring to the radical descent from near perfection to drastic failure in no more than 10-15 minutes. The change is not even gradual, either. It literally is as drastic as that. At first you are gathering normally and watching both the materials and SP flooding in, when all of a sudden everything you attempt fails. I have failed Iron Chestnuts four times in a row as a Rank 36 with only one swing of the Hatchet; something that, outside of this breakdown of ability, would never happen. For the third day in a row of levelling I have had to stop, feeling rather disgruntled, because my SP / hour has halved and because the overwhelming urge to severely harm something or somebody in my vicinity has drastically risen.

Considering we are already having to deal with a 10%/20%/30%/etc cut to our hourly SP rate because of fatigue (like every other job, which is fair) it seems ludicrous and unbalanced that we now have to combat with a fatigue that essentially stops us from playing our job. And for what purpose? To limit the amount of items we can obtain? That is the only reason I can think of that may be behind this decision, which is a flawed one anyway. No other job has it's item creation hindered in this way; just gathering. Disciples of War and Magic levelling or killing low level monsters can still obtain items, even if they're getting 0 SP from fatigue. Disciples of the Hand can still synthesise to their hearts content even if they're getting 0 SP from fatigue, or it being a low level synth.

Why, then, do gatherers get hindered at the one thing they can do, which is gather things?

Were it a gradual process whereby my character descended into a slightly less success rate, it might be tolerable. But the fact that in the space of 10-15 minutes I can literally gather nothing whatsoever, at this particular location or anywhere, is drastic and unfair. I have to, quite simply, stop playing the job. The only thing my Botanist is good for in this state is throwing rocks at Star Marmots outside Ul'dah. We already succumb to fatigue, so why inflict this level of alteration on gathering jobs? You don't stop Disciples of War attacking if they've been doing it too long, or Magic from casting spells if they've been doing it too long. Why, then, does gathering get it so hard?

If I'm missing something pretty simple, please, somebody point it out. I have read around on all the community sites and have found nothing to explain what this is or how to get rid of it. I appreciate the development team is very busy turning this game around and, believe me, I greatly appreciate the changes that have been and are being brought in. However, this seemingly pointless and unbalanced aspect of the job is really killing it and making it a potential heart attack catalyst to level. Fatigue is frustrating enough, with this as well it's almost enough to give up on Botanist altogether.

Would it be possible to change this aspect to gathering jobs? As outlined above, it is horrifically frustrating and I am confident, given the scale of the difficulty change my character suddenly suffers, that this has got a lot of other gatherer's goats up too! If I'm missing something, polite pointers would be appreciated, or even tips people have found to work around this.

Levelling Botanist is hard enough. Levelling a fatigued Botanist is even harder. Levelling a Botanist that fails every attempt at gathering is just absurd.

It is one of the many stupid limitations put in this game to prevent RMT or botting, which, as per usual, ends up pissing off regular players more than anything.

10-15 minutes for it to kick in is a major exageration
it should take at least 2 hours(its based on how many times you gather) before you start seeing the initial onset of it and by the 3-4 hour mark youll be fully into it

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

10-15 minutes for it to kick in is a major exageration
it should take at least 2 hours(its based on how many times you gather) before you start seeing the initial onset of it and by the 3-4 hour mark youll be fully into it

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I really wish it was an exagerration. I arrived at Dragon Head today at 2pm my time, exhausted every tree and then began going to a harvesting spot, tree, tree, repeat. By 3pm I started getting an occasional fail (I know because I recorded my SP at 2pm and then at 3pm, hourly rate interests me), by 3:15pm I was failing every single attempt.

An hour of gathering whereby I obtained 22.3k SP and an unrecorded number of items, and 15 minutes later I am unable to obtain anything either at a tree or at a harvesting spot.

It is not 10-15 minutes from full to nothing. They way it works is that you get 2500 points in gathering. Every time you gather something you go down 10 points if you get something from it. Every hour you get 100 points back. This means you get to gather 250 itmes per 25 hours before you cannot get anything.

Once you get down to 1000 of your 2500 points it gets a bit harder to get items but you still can.

As a high ranked gather guy myself I recomend you make it easy on yourself and gather once a day at the same general time every day that way you stay at near 2500 points every day (this will help avoid the 10-15 minutes issue)

Another think that will help you to feel a bit better is if you level Mining and Botany at the same time. That way you can just macro in your equip changes and have 2500 points in each every 25 hours.

Gathering is fun and not all that hard to level up if you just make it a once a day thing for a few hours. I hope this information helps and keep at it gathering rocks!

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

I really wish it was an exagerration. I arrived at Dragon Head today at 2pm my time, exhausted every tree and then began going to a harvesting spot, tree, tree, repeat. By 3pm I started getting an occasional fail (I know because I recorded my SP at 2pm and then at 3pm, hourly rate interests me), by 3:15pm I was failing every single attempt.

An hour of gathering whereby I obtained 22.3k SP and an unrecorded number of items, and 15 minutes later I am unable to obtain anything either at a tree or at a harvesting spot.

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you realize you just admited it was an exageration...
sounds like it took you over an hour to hit it, not 10-15 minutes


what i do to get around this

first off, dont gather every day, if you do, youll get very little time every day before it sets in, set gathering sessions up every 3-4 days instead(i do mine sunday mornings and wednesday nights)
doing so will give you a near full reset on fatigue every time you do it.

i do mining and botony at the same time, i usualy get in around 30-40k sp still before it sets in bad on me. and thats 30-40k in each. usualy takes anywhere from 3-5 hours to kick in to where i stop doing it. and a few days later when i go back, its back to normal.

there are several reasons for this to be in game, one of course is rmt bots who can just gather millions of items to flood the market.
the other is again, players who will flood the market with these items. right now, with how it is, it keeps any one person from farming 5000 silver a day to sell to everyone and driving it into the ground to where its worthless. its a way to control how much stock goes public at any given time, and can only rise if more people gather rather then people gathering more on their own.


a second point you may wanna know, SP fatigue is being removed in 1.18 so its a null point at this time.

and yes it can suck when your trying to level....i wont deny it, but we gotta deal with it for now. I personaly dont mind it, and im 40 botony and mining, and i have 50 miner friends who had to deal with it all the way to the top and they didnt much care for it but they understand what happens if it doesnt exist too.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you realize you just admited it was an exageration...
sounds like it took you over an hour to hit it, not 10-15 minutes

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I think there's a misunderstanding, probably my fault for not clarifying in more detail. When I refer to the fatigue setting in within 10-15 minutes, I mean from the point the game decides I've been at it enough and starts making me fail things. Whilst the time up until that point has varied, the descent into obliterating my gathering has only taken 10-15 minutes.

Thank you for the pointers both of you, I will try some of them out and see if they help. Might need to work on Miner a bit, though, as that's R6 and Botanist is R36.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

a second point you may wanna know, SP fatigue is being removed in 1.18 so its a null point at this time.

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Let's not go off the point, this is not in anyway about or aimed at SP fatigue.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

and yes it can suck when your trying to level....i wont deny it, but we gotta deal with it for now. I personaly dont mind it, and im 40 botony and mining, and i have 50 miner friends who had to deal with it all the way to the top and they didnt much care for it but they understand what happens if it doesnt exist too.

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We do, and I will, but it can't hurt to ask them to remove it. =)

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

I think there's a misunderstanding, probably my fault for not clarifying in more detail. When I refer to the fatigue setting in within 10-15 minutes, I mean from the point the game decides I've been at it enough and starts making me fail things. Whilst the time up until that point has varied, the descent into obliterating my gathering has only taken 10-15 minutes.

Thank you for the pointers both of you, I will try some of them out and see if they help. Might need to work on Miner a bit, though, as that's R6 and Botanist is R36.



Let's not go off the point, this is not in anyway about or aimed at SP fatigue.




We do, and I will, but it can't hurt to ask them to remove it. =)

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Oh yeah get out that mining pick! It will make you feel so much better! Mining is ALOT of fun and it makes it so much easier to gather. You only need 3 spots to rotate between mining/botany so you can do one mining node and two trees, or to mining nodes and one tree, or one bush, one tree, and one mining node. It makes it so much faster to level! (The best is when you get a mining node, and bush, and a tree right next to eachother, (for the quarry node in treespeak) then you can just get those three in a tiny loop of pure joy!!!

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Originally Posted by Orcishgrappler

Oh yeah get out that mining pick! It will make you feel so much better! Mining is ALOT of fun and it makes it so much easier to gather. You only need 3 spots to rotate between mining/botany so you can do one mining node and two trees, or to mining nodes and one tree, or one bush, one tree, and one mining node. It makes it so much faster to level! (The best is when you get a mining node, and bush, and a tree right next to eachother, (for the quarry node in treespeak) then you can just get those three in a tiny loop of pure joy!!!

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I have often seen people switching between the two recently and wondered how they had the patience to level both. I see that I have clearly missed a beautiful oppurtunity to level both in only keeping with one. I unfortunately did not think to pursue the reasons why they were switching between mining and botany, and just assumed it was to take advantage of nodes spaced very close to each other!

Thank you for the pointers both of you, and until this is either scaled down (hopefully) or removed (wishful thinking), I will take these pointers and try and maximise my efficiency. I think when I'm gathering on Botanist there's going to be a lot of fails on Grade 5 mining spot! I wonder how much a fail at R6 on a Grade 5 will give me...

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Originally Posted by Orcishgrappler

It is not 10-15 minutes from full to nothing. They way it works is that you get 2500 points in gathering. Every time you gather something you go down 10 points if you get something from it. Every hour you get 100 points back. This means you get to gather 250 itmes per 25 hours before you cannot get anything.

Once you get down to 1000 of your 2500 points it gets a bit harder to get items but you still can.

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This is a better explanation than any of the community sites provided, thank you. It makes me realise stopping at a passing grade 1 spot on my way to Gridania to snag a few Cotton Bolls is really, really hurting my levelling. Fortunately I rarely have the time to solidly level every day, and only usually end up levelling in a determined manner as this when I find myself free from work on the better side of a leve reset and have 24 hours of no levies or local levies.

I have been keeping track of my hourly SP rate at Iron Lake and Dragon Head to decide which camp is best. Given that Iron Lake likes to spam my inventory with Tomatoes and Oranges, Dragon Head almost certainly seems to be the way to go. It's not about hourly SP, evidently. It's about getting the most attempts in ratio to how many items you obtain, which means Dragon Head is almost certainly better.

Not so sure about Treespeak at the moment, without Arbor Call V it's exceptionally hard to pinpoint the tree's locations compared to IL and DH.

Fortunately managed to get R36 before this set in today, so I guess I can get a few points back by completing the quest. Thanks again, and yes, I agree, gathering rocks!

Note that functionally those numbers (2500 1000 100 10) are pretty much the same as (250 100 10 1). If it matters to you. And also note it only subtracts from your gathering points on a successful gather. and not number of items, but number of successful gathers.

Dragonhead and Ironlake (and Treespeak/Halitali) are both G5 so there shouldn't be any difference at all in SP gain. only item pools.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

I have often seen people switching between the two recently and wondered how they had the patience to level both. I see that I have clearly missed a beautiful oppurtunity to level both in only keeping with one. I unfortunately did not think to pursue the reasons why they were switching between mining and botany, and just assumed it was to take advantage of nodes spaced very close to each other!

Thank you for the pointers both of you, and until this is either scaled down (hopefully) or removed (wishful thinking), I will take these pointers and try and maximise my efficiency. I think when I'm gathering on Botanist there's going to be a lot of fails on Grade 5 mining spot! I wonder how much a fail at R6 on a Grade 5 will give me...

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Oh yeah take that pick with you on grade 5 nodes for sure for two reasons:

First you will get about 170 sp per miss and that really adds up!

And Second you will be able to then just get two trees in a close loop to it (Or more likely in iron lake a tree and a bush) then back to the mining node for a quick 170 sp!

And the best part is its 320 sp or so when you dont miss!

There is no down side to it! Don't feel like you missed a oppurtunity, feel like you just got a brave new one!
Venute forth gather people of Eorsea! Wahoo!

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Dragonhead and Ironlake (and Treespeak/Halitali) are both G5 so there shouldn't be any difference at all in SP gain. only item pools.

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SP per gather, indeed not, however (although I am yet to try Halatali at any large scale due to the overwhelming urge to never set foot in or around Thanalan ever again) harvesting nodes are much closer together at DH & IL than at Treespeak, meaning you can bounce between two harvesting spots and the nearest tree. They are infact so close at IL that you can see the other harvesting node from the other. Due to the lack of running up and down slopes and bridges, I favour DH & IL over Treespeak as well. All that running time adds up!

The slopes play havoc with Triangulate V as well, and DH & IL is relatively flat / narrow.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

SP per gather, indeed not, however (although I am yet to try Halatali at any large scale due to the overwhelming urge to never set foot in or around Thanalan ever again) harvesting nodes are much closer together at DH & IL than at Treespeak, meaning you can bounce between two harvesting spots and the nearest tree. They are infact so close at IL that you can see the other harvesting node from the other. Due to the lack of running up and down slopes and bridges, I favour DH & IL over Treespeak as well. All that running time adds up!

The slopes play havoc with Triangulate V as well, and DH & IL is relatively flat / narrow.

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they arent close at treespeak?

LOL yes they are, closer then anywhere ive seen

on besaid we got 5 nodes up within 50 yards of each other right now

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

they arent close at treespeak?

LOL yes they are, closer then anywhere ive seen

on besaid we got 5 nodes up within 50 yards of each other right now

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Right now being the important part of that sentence. If the server decides to load one all the way to the NW, E and SW, it's much harder. Imagine trying to find a rythm with that setup without Arbor Call V. That's why IL & DH is better for me, because I can rely on the harvesting spots to always be there and base my gathering from them. If I get lucky with node pops near them, I can average 20k per hour, as it takes me about three minutes at the most to complete a loop. Not exactly terrible, is it?

The harvesting spots at IL & DH are close enough that, but for a giant rock at DH, you could see the spots from one another. At Treespeak they are spaced much further from each other, making it much more difficult to find a rhythm without ACV. Previous experience has unfortunately been bad with Treespeak. When I get ACV I'll give it another go, but for now, I'm content with 20k an hour that I know I can get next to every time. =)

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

Right now being the important part of that sentence. If the server decides to load one all the way to the NW, E and SW, it's much harder. Imagine trying to find a rythm with that setup without Arbor Call V. That's why IL & DH is better for me, because I can rely on the harvesting spots to always be there and base my gathering from them. If I get lucky with node pops near them, I can average 20k per hour, as it takes me about three minutes at the most to complete a loop. Not exactly terrible, is it?

The harvesting spots at IL & DH are close enough that, but for a giant rock at DH, you could see the spots from one another. At Treespeak they are spaced much further from each other, making it much more difficult to find a rhythm without ACV. Previous experience has unfortunately been bad with Treespeak. When I get ACV I'll give it another go, but for now, I'm content with 20k an hour that I know I can get next to every time. =)

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they are close together fairly often though
so i dont see how you cant find them that close

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

they are close together fairly often though
so i dont see how you cant find them that close

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Just unlucky I guess.

Actually, to clarify, I'm referring to the harvesting spots (literally just those, the things you farm with the scythes) when I say DH & IL are much closer; which they are, they never move around. I think there was another misunderstanding somewhere, if that's my fault I apologise. You just need to take most of what I say into a failure-like context of not having Arbor Call V, lol.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

Just unlucky I guess.

Actually, to clarify, I'm referring to the harvesting spots (literally just those, the things you farm with the scythes) when I say DH & IL are much closer; which they are, they never move around. I think there was another misunderstanding somewhere, if that's my fault I apologise. You just need to take most of what I say into a failure-like context of not having Arbor Call V, lol.

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yeah those are spread out

you got the 2 right next to each other in the north sector, and sometimes nodes spawn next to them to make it convenient

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

yeah those are spread out

you got the 2 right next to each other in the north sector, and sometimes nodes spawn next to them to make it convenient

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On the few occasions I tried there I didn't have any luck, had a rather inconvenient treck to get anything, really killed my SP/hour. The problem was not being able to know exactly where the trees were, so will definitely give it a try once I have ACV.

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Originally Posted by SeleneVenizelos

On the few occasions I tried there I didn't have any luck, had a rather inconvenient treck to get anything, really killed my SP/hour. The problem was not being able to know exactly where the trees were, so will definitely give it a try once I have ACV.

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well if you are going for sp/hr, using secondary nodes isnt exactly the best way to do it anyway

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Note that functionally those numbers (2500 1000 100 10) are pretty much the same as (250 100 10 1). If it matters to you. And also note it only subtracts from your gathering points on a successful gather. and not number of items, but number of successful gathers.

Dragonhead and Ironlake (and Treespeak/Halitali) are both G5 so there shouldn't be any difference at all in SP gain. only item pools.

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By the same token, Guardian Aspect is needlessly multiplied by 10, too. Giving us 20 and having it regen at a rate of 1 would be the same thing, the numbers just look smaller. . .