Would like to see more shared skills that are useful

One thing I miss from the very old days of 1.0 was how each guild had certain skills you could unlock if you saved up enough "guild marks" through quests. These skills were pretty general and could be shared over any class. It really helped encourage players to try different play styles on their way to picking up these new skills. I find once I get into a job there aren't a lot of exciting or useful skills to share to customize my character. I have the option to add additional skills - but none of them really seem worth having. I would like to see ways to unlock more skills that can be shared over all classes, or at least magic skills for magic classes and battle skills for battle classes.

Oh man you're right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do miss that from the original FFXIV. It really opened up
some interesting options.

I miss buying skills, because it was neat, allowed for some measure of individuality, and if nothing else..... gave us one more thing to do.

"The world's still the same, there's just... less in it."

There is pretty much zero room for customization here. If you want to be good at the job you're playing, you have to do what everyone else does, collect the same gear, use the same rotations and cross skills, it's really dull...
They could have at least throw in a vanity system so we all didn't look the same... :B

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

There is pretty much zero room for customization here. If you want to be good at the job you're playing, you have to do what everyone else does, collect the same gear, use the same rotations and cross skills, it's really dull...

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Because it's not like you don't already do that with builds in every other MMO out there. The devs got rid of talent trees and whatnot because they don't actually represent real choices. All they do is create the illusion of it, and, after a month or so when the theorycrafters have done the math/analysis, there becomes a single optimal that everyone starts using (and anyone that doesn't do it because they feel like being different just ends up hurting themselves; anyone that's new and doesn't feel like doing the research just ends up performing terribly).

The current system works because it's just like every other system out there only without the pretense. You've got a small amount of customizability that has a small impact on total performance, but, overall, you're just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Because it's not like you don't already do that with builds in every other MMO out there. The devs got rid of talent trees and whatnot because they don't actually represent real choices. All they do is create the illusion of it

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The illusion of choice can go a long way for some people. A lot of people like to believe they have options, and might even refuse to believe there'a a cookie cutter format for all classes. Shoot, they could truly have the option. There have been many games where they said "This is how youre supposed to use this class" then somebody branches out.. discovers an entirely new, maybe even more efficient way to use the class.
Not completely sure, but i think thats what happened with Ninja in FFXI? I did not play FFXI so its possible im wrong.

I support this because most don't even get 5 useful crossclasses.

SMN: raging strikes, quickcast, bliz2, surecast, then 5th has to be quelling strikes, which is barely ever an issue for smn, and hawk's eye which was completely irrelevant till 2.1 and even now barely useful at al

PLD: foresight, bloodbath, stoneskin, cure, then what? Skull sunder: redundant, fracture? barely better potency than fast/savage/rage combo. Mercy stroke has very limited usefulness as it is. Even setting ss and cure are borderline redundant for pld. So then you're only left with 3.

SCH: with a WHM in party as well 2 of their 3 useful healing-related cross skills aren't used. SCH has more offensive crossclass options than healing ones.

The heavy-handed Virus nerf leaves one of BLM's 5 useful crossclasses useless if a SCH is present, and calling 5 skills useful is a stretch.

Ideally each job should have at least 6 so there's some room for choice depending on the situation. We're far from that.

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Originally Posted by MrDiezel

The illusion of choice can go a long way for some people. A lot of people like to believe they have options, and might even refuse to believe there'a a cookie cutter format for all classes. Shoot, they could truly have the option. There have been many games where they said "This is how youre supposed to use this class" then somebody branches out.. discovers an entirely new, maybe even more efficient way to use the class.
Not completely sure, but i think thats what happened with Ninja in FFXI? I did not play FFXI so its possible im wrong.

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SE developed NIN as a DPS, and SAM as a tank. So there's that.

Then there's the whole series of BRD and DRK tanking that wasn't intended, and before the mazurka hate nerf, RDM/BRD chainspell mazurka tanking was about the silliest thing ever thought of for xi.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

SE developed NIN as a DPS, and SAM as a tank. So there's that.

Then there's the whole series of BRD and DRK tanking that wasn't intended, and before the mazurka hate nerf, RDM/BRD chainspell mazurka tanking was about the silliest thing ever thought of for xi.

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Exactly this. Even the illusion of choice gives way to new strategies for different fights and situations. And finding these combinations of skills and abilities in itself adds something new to the game.

Not having a choice at all will always be worse, sure it makes it easier to balance for the devs, but they're still doing a terrible job at that with job stacking on certain fights.

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Originally Posted by Deifact

Not having a choice at all will always be worse, sure it makes it easier to balance for the devs, but they're still doing a terrible job at that with job stacking on certain fights.

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What fights are you referring to (post 2.1)?

The Talent Tree idea is kinda there, SE just Remixed it. Think about it, Take WoW PLD for example, you had a DPS Tree, A Tank Tree, and a Healing Tree. Arcanist can Spec Healer or DPS, and I expect SE to continue to go in this direction where classes will branch into different jobs. Instead of Trees's you have Job Crystals and Instead on points you can spend in those trees you have "Attributes Points and Materia". But like Kitru Said, Eventually, everyone will figure out which set up is most opitimal and role with that.... For example What other choice does BRD really have than to put all their Attribute points in DEX ? Sure you could put some in VIT and PIE but really you would be gimping yourself.

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

One thing I miss from the very old days of 1.0 was how each guild had certain skills you could unlock if you saved up enough "guild marks" through quests. These skills were pretty general and could be shared over any class. It really helped encourage players to try different play styles on their way to picking up these new skills. I find once I get into a job there aren't a lot of exciting or useful skills to share to customize my character. I have the option to add additional skills - but none of them really seem worth having. I would like to see ways to unlock more skills that can be shared over all classes, or at least magic skills for magic classes and battle skills for battle classes.

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If I could like this thread x1000 I would. Some of the Cross Class Skills are worthless. Why the heck Savage Blade and Skull sunder cross class ?