MercyStroke & Stoneskin usefull?

I'm currently thinking about making a paladin, but i keep hearing controversy about these two, some say they are good, some other useless.

Mainly MercyStroke people say it's kinda useless cause you can't combo with it, as for Stoneskins it's only "good" in downtimes fight..


Should i bother getting those?

Mercy Stroke is off the GCD, free, and doesn't interrupt combos. Its only trade-off is the skill slot it takes up.

Stoneskin has cast time and MP trade-offs, but it's not an insignificant chunk of mitigation. If you get the chance to cast it, it helps. You can also cast it on the MT if you're OTing.

It's also a matter of, y'know, what else are you going to take? Cure is pathetic, the healers have Protect covered, you can't Raise in combat, and Skull Sunder does absolutely nothing for you. That leaves Foresight, Bloodbath, Fracture, Mercy Stroke, and Stoneskin. Five skills for your five slots. You can fiddle around with which ones you take before 50, but before 50, it won't make that big a difference anyway.

StoneSkin can prove very useful if you want to off-tank. Mecy stroke is more situational and isn't that useful (it's really hard to time it exactly so that you can get that damn %hp regen, almost impossible). Even as a Warrior, I only use it to do some off GCD dps because there is no way I can be accurate on the fact the monster/boss only has under 100 hp left.

Get Stoneskin. Going back to main Warrior, this is the one thing I miss the most. Well timed Stoneskins can not only be a life saver for yourself, but the other tank if you are in an OT position. Spamming Stoneskin on the other guy currently MTing during Ifrit EX just before he breath attacks is so incredibly good. Coil T4 before every Dread pickup helps reduce heal stress and aggroe till things settle down. Stoneskin is about the best Crossclass skills and it is so underused.

Mercy Stroke I'd get, but more so because there isn't anything better.

Yes, definitely get both if you want to maximize your pally

Stoneskin is a really good skill to have. During tank switches in coil or ex primals I'll cast Stoneskin on the the other tank. 680 mitigated damage per cast is pretty good!

Mercy Stroke is just that little bit of extra damage off the GCD. I might get 1 final hit in every 50 so don't expect to be keeping yourself alive with it.

We don't have the best cross class skills because our actual skills are awesome! I use - Foresight, Stoneskin, Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke and Cure.
The reason I don't use fracture is because it's been proven that it's really not worth it. My cure does about 200hp but I use it during Sirens is Pharos and when there's a wipe and I feel like soloing the rest (Ifrit HM is good for that. Keep up Stoneskin and pop cure when he's doing his sprints) :)

Let me double down on stoneskin.

Especially with our enhanced aggro, there will be times in tough boss fights where you will have lots of time for helping out your healers with stoneskin. The examples above are spot on: ss'ing yourself (think of it like a cooldown with an induction) or the mt are the most common uses.

But other uses also pop up. I helped out a LS mate a couple days ago with Ifrit, and at one point the group was close to a wipe though I was in good shape. I do believe the 'skins I threw on both the healer and a just-raised DPS made the difference in both of their survival and the group then quickly righted itself.

You can select 5 of the 9 available cross class skills as a PLD:

Protect - useless in party
Raise - useless in general
Skull Sunder - junk
Fracture - meh
Cure
Stoneskin
Foresight
Bloodbath
Mercy Stroke

A pld without stoneskin is pretty much a /kick after a certain point and will only get more important. With tank swaps being a "every day 2.1" thing. The tanks will almost always have a point where they need to provide some damage mitigation, and stoneskin is the "go-to" spell for that.

Let's take ultima (realistically you should be doing it as early as titan HM and coil1,2 etc) For half the battle the OT will most likely be on sword oath, and they have a duty of casting stoneskin on the MT, do their riot for mp, and repeat. While people have long used gear to brute force it, that tactic generally smooths the "oh shit" possiblity.

Ultima HM without tanks providing stoneskin = tank purge and/or crits, at wrong timing(stack change) dead tank. With stone skin, no problems, as the tank will easily be topped out without the extra strain on the healers (laser's and ifrit being the worse time for tank purges).

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

A pld without stoneskin is pretty much a /kick after a certain point and will only get more important. With tank swaps being a "every day 2.1" thing. The tanks will almost always have a point where they need to provide some damage mitigation, and stoneskin is the "go-to" spell for that.

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Funny I dont have SS for my pld and do everything just fine. IMO if youre OT u should be sword oath DPSing instead casting a crappy SS. I use Lolsight, Bloodbath, Mercy, fracture, (cure or SS up to you). fracture is a good DPS boost if u know when to use it.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Funny I dont have SS for my pld and do everything just fine. IMO if youre OT u should be sword oath DPSing instead casting a crappy SS. I use Lolsight, Bloodbath, Mercy, fracture, (cure or SS up to you). fracture is a good DPS boost if u know when to use it.

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So you brute force and blame others when things don't go well?

Like everything in life, suck it up. even i90 plds will die with stacks. The easy stoneskin, or people find someone else, is usually the better course of action.

Stoneskin is nice to buy some time between defensive cooldowns. When you gauge that you may need two healer's focus and know the big attack(s) are coming and one of your healers is down, healing another party member or out of MP, the Stoneskin with Shield Oath helps a little (10% max HP with 20% damage reduction of Shield Oath, may last an i90 tank 700+ HP).

Haven't used it too much as an off tank except in times where my positioning is key toward the end of the round, e.g. Turn 1 slimes and Turn 4 next wave. Where I may get a cast or two on someone to offset the healing (or really, have the healers give me more attention later since team mates have an extra 400-500 HP damage buffer)

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

So you brute force and blame others when things don't go well?

Like everything in life, suck it up. even i90 plds will die with stacks. The easy stoneskin, or people find someone else, is usually the better course of action.

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I dont think I have or my co-pilot have ever died due to me or him not having SS. First of all WHM SS mitigates far more damage, and a competent WHM will SS before all big hits i.e. DS so pld SS is kinda pointless. But its kinda pointless to argue with you before you reach end game.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

I dont think I have or my co-pilot have ever died due to me or him not having SS. First of all WHM SS mitigates far more damage, and a competent WHM will SS before all big hits i.e. DS so pld SS is kinda pointless. But its kinda pointless to argue with you before you reach end game.

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So you do blame other people for when things don't go well. aka "competent whm".

No matter what stoneskin makes the worse, not happen, and tactics that was used for twin, now do it for everything, because it applies just as well. It applies everywhere and is "fine play".

It's like the warrior and provoke issue. Suck it up. Stop relying on others for covering a hole in what you bring to the table.

There are so many reasons for a tank that can stoneskin in a pinch these days, it's not funny.

A PLD could complete all content with 0 cross class skills. But stoneskin is nice to have. I always cast 1 or 2 of em during tank switches when I go OT. Gives the other tank time to solidify aggro while helping with damage a little.

I only recently got mercy stroke and I've used it a lot more than the protect/raise is replaced.

My favorite use of Stoneskin was negating Demon Wall's Repel. It will do the same for many other push-back/effect-adding abilities, since they actually have to cause damage in order to apply the effect.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

I dont think I have or my co-pilot have ever died due to me or him not having SS.

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Don't think I've died to a mistimed foresight or bloodbath being on cooldown.

It's still nice to have Stoneskin though.

My most valueable CCS to me is Stoneskin and Foresight. I use them often in my rotations.
My next skill i actually use surprisingly often is protect, in many cases of party members or myself being dead and then raised, we lose protect. By casting the lesser protect on the party helps keep the healers focused on healing and not rebuffing raised members. Its especially useful when in content with 2 scholar healers as they both have the basic Protect..and not the enhanced protect. Or if the WHM is out of MP after raising several party members + healing.

Iv been in many situations where while im MTing, i can reapply buffs (protect and stoneskin) to raised members allowing the healer to focus and conserve MP.


the last 2 slots are kinda up in the air..
I have had fracture but i don't use it as often as i should because i don't put it in my rotation often.
I never use mercy stroke,
I do try to use Cure, but not on myself rather other party members, but its value is still way to small to even make a difference.
I actually use Raise often during normal world gameplay and coming across dead players on the field. But its kinda worthless for content. However it would be an absolute must if we had access to Combat Raise. (id rather have Combat Raise then a stronger cure)
Bloodbath seems good on paper, but i swear I feel like it does nothing to my HP when its active, so I don't use it often.

Skills i know are worthless to me;
Skull Sunder

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Originally Posted by Kaloran

My favorite use of Stoneskin was negating Demon Wall's Repel. It will do the same for many other push-back/effect-adding abilities, since they actually have to cause damage in order to apply the effect.

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Me too previously, but alas that use changed with 2.1. SE 'fixed' situations where effects weren't being applied if damage didn't happen.