Playing as a base class for endgame

This is not a complaint thread, but rather one of curiosity.

I'd like to ask my fellow end-gamers whether they have managed to find a good, practical use for taking off the job crystal and resorting to using a base class for any endgame content thus far.

I'm aware there are advantages to doing this in regards to having more cross-class abilities enabled, but the disadvantages of losing stats seem to provide an always clear winner for all endgame content....to keep the job crystal always on.

Before 2.1, mostly everyone was only using relic weapons/myth pieces that can only be equipped by your job. However as more and more lvl 80/90 pieces that can be equipped by both classes and jobs, are being made more available (primal drops, coil T5 weapon) perhaps things are about to change.

Do you think there could be opportunities arising that would benefit parties to make more use of the base class, whether it's soon, or in distant future endgame content? If not, then why do you think SE added endgame gear to be equip-able by those classes? (except for myth)

Pretty sure Yoshi can be quoted as saying Jobs are specialized and better for party content, where Classes with the more varied Cross-Class skills are pretty good for solo stuff.

Queue for Garuda EM as a class just to Provoke the Spiny, maybe...

Can you even que up in finder as a class? I thought it required you to be on a job.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Can you even que up in finder as a class? I thought it required you to be on a job.

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Yes you can queue as a class, it's the role that matters for the DF not the actual job.

THM with allagan outdamages BLM with allagan/Zenith

/dem buffs: Raging Strike, B4B, Internal Release etc
/dat raise also.

You lose a huge chunk of your base stats. I have full allagan and weapon on my DRG if I tried switching to LNC I would lose 15 points of STR and totally would not be worth it just for raging strikes.

While allocation helps and isn't a "HUGE" boost, your soul crystal gives you such a native boost you're only hindering yourself and group by going class. In 1.23 it worked because of gear design.

this is a tough one.

There are some positives like more cross class, more customization, more role options.

There are some negatives like no myth gear, almost needing an allagan weapon as relic and zenith are non options

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

While allocation helps and isn't a "HUGE" boost, your soul crystal gives you such a native boost you're only hindering yourself and group by going class. In 1.23 it worked because of gear design.

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this is basically the flaw in the design. You get such a big boost from your crystal that cannot be made up for in gear because most of it is either better than what you have or not worth having unless it is a stopgap.

On my alt I purposefully leveled GLD to 50 without ever changing to PLD just to see if playing as a class made certain content any harder (I leveled WAR to 50 for dungeons, though). While this by no means makes me an expert--especially since I do this for fun, not so much for research--I have a decent understanding for just how much difference there is between classes and jobs. My dungeons experience, unfortunately, doesn't go beyond Brayflox as a GLD, but that's because I quickly saw how much harder it was to hold aggro there when my other three party members were in their jobs. If my party members were all in their classes, or if we actually coordinated better, then I don't think we would have had so much trouble, but as far as tanking goes it's harder to hold enmity against jobs when you are playing as a class. I also ran through Dzemael on my WAR and both DPS were in their classes (I believe it was an ARC and a LNC), and noticed just how much longer each fight against the trash in the dungeon took, as well as the boss fights. I can only imagine what sort of personal hell it would be for the healer if they were just a CNJ, and I don't believe there's any way an ACN would be able to keep up with healing.

That being said, I do enjoy the versatility of the class; I can use Featherfoot to help proc Haymaker, which along with Shield Swipe lets me conserve my TP as well as deal some good damage and inflict Slow. Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke, and Second Wind are always nice to have, as is Invigorate for prolonged fights. I'd imagine Venomous Bite could be useful as well, though I haven't leveled ARC yet. Obviously Cure, Stoneskin, and Physick have their uses, as does Eye for an Eye. If anything having access to all these other skills and spells makes playing a GLD much more enjoyable, haha!

As far as closing the stat-gap between classes and jobs, I'd imagine materia would be the best way to slightly make up for the loss in stats, but I don't believe it would be enough at higher levels. Perhaps fully melded, HQ, iLvl70 crafted gear would be the best route, but since I own no CT gear on my alt I can't say if it is, in fact, better.

Still, I've been meaning see if I can't convince some friends to run Brayflox in only classes, just to see if it's that much harder or not. Heck, if it goes well maybe Qarn or Vigil, too, just for kicks. If anything it'll add a bit of challenge to these old and tired dungeons, and who can complain about that?

I see the major advantage bring role versatility. A Lancer could be made into a tank for example. Though this would really only work if you had a static make up for it. If you queue as a Lancer, your party will be very confused and annoyed at it.

Classes offer versatility while Jobs offer specialization. Most people just look at the stat boosts that are lost, but they ignore the utility. The armory system is still too in it's infancy for it to be tried though. Perhaps in the future we will be seeing a healthy mix of classes and jobs running end game content.

Jobless classes are great fun for playing dungeons out of intended team comp. 4 DPS, ect ect

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Originally Posted by Sedant

You lose a huge chunk of your base stats. I have full allagan and weapon on my DRG if I tried switching to LNC I would lose 15 points of STR and totally would not be worth it just for raging strikes.

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I wouldn't necessarily call losing 15 STR "huge". The numerical affect of 15 STR is too small to even begin to notice. Though it is still a loss. I think the problem with LNC is that there aren't enough cross-class skills from non-DRG classes to make it worth taking off the crystal.

But I'm sure there might be some classes where it's useful. Someone mentioned THM.

I rarely see anyone above level 30 without their soul crystal equipped.

In fact the only time I recall seeing a class was in PvP a few days ago. Went in with a couple people I know and the tank we got was a marauder, not a warrior. Likely went in as MRD since you can have many more cross class skills.

I don't think it'd be possible to keep hate on endgame content without Shield Oath and Defiance. Scholar wouldn't even be a healing option, Summoner wouldn't be a DPS option. Conjurer wouldn't have Regen or Divine Seal to enhance healing.

THM would probably be the class least affected, but the lack of Manawall for survivability and Flare for utility would gimp them.

In short, it's just not viable in a group setting to only use the base classes. The cross class skills won't make up for the lack of job abilities in most cases.

I think something like this would only work for a DPS type class

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Originally Posted by Darlan_Ashwood

I think something like this would only work for a DPS type class

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it does have some, not many usages for casters. I could see some use for an OT that isn't expected to hold hate too long or take any major damage.
Really don't think there will be any practical applications till we can low man dungeons with chocobo's though.

The classes becoming basically obsolete once the job is introduced just doesn't sit right with me. Equipping our crystal is "supposed" to be for party play right? Leaving classes as solo? Well I thought that too until I noticed that everything is just as easy or easier with the crystal and job attached.

I would love to see classes become a viable option. I don't understand why SE would not want to utilize them since all it does is boost the different ways people can play. IMO it would be better to have smn, arc, and sch rather than just smn and sch. The same goes for the other jobs/classes once they are given their counterparts.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

The classes becoming basically obsolete once the job is introduced just doesn't sit right with me. Equipping our crystal is "supposed" to be for party play right? Leaving classes as solo? Well I thought that too until I noticed that everything is just as easy or easier with the crystal and job attached.

I would love to see classes become a viable option. I don't understand why SE would not want to utilize them since all it does is boost the different ways people can play. IMO it would be better to have smn, arc, and sch rather than just smn and sch. The same goes for the other jobs/classes once they are given their counterparts.

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This is what got me thinking, why would they bother to ensure the highest gear can be equipped by the base class? There might not be a practical purpose for it now, but perhaps down the line they are going to buff some of the classes up a bit, or have content that relies on your cross-class abilities.