So, I queued up for a daily 50 dungeon on my SCH, who is 76 gear lvl, and I got a party in progress 0/4 (AK). So, I joined the run and see that they wiped on the first boss and the tank/healer left. So I join in, and a few seconds later a tank joins. I notice the 2 DPS, 1 DRG and 1 BLM, have low HP (BLM at 3000/DRG at 3500). So, I dont say anything, and we start the first boss, and I DPS in cleric as usual until I am forced to heal full time. I notice in the fight, the ads are just piling up, and the boss is barely dropping health. The fight goes on a long time, and hardly any damage is being done.
So the BLM dies because he is standing in the middle of the arena (we are off in the side), and we all wipe, and my parser is showing everyone at like 80 DPS (including tank and dps), so I made the comment "DPS is horrific," and then I asked the BLM why he was standing in the middle of the arena (since we were all on the side), and then after 2 min he doesn't answer. I ask "do you have a keyboard BLM"? and then he says "yes." So I asked "why did you stand in the middle?"
At this point I figure he is a a new player, with fresh 50 gear and probably never been in here. I do not abuse vote kick system and will only kick an offline player or a legit troll.
Someone else initiates a vote-kick for "cheating," on the BLM, I VOTE NO, and he gets kicked from the group. I felt bad since it was obvious he was a new player, and he doesn't really understand why he was kicked since no one said anything directly, so he will have a bad experience and didn't really learn anything why.
I understand that the 2 players who kicked him realized the run would probably not get done with his bad gear/newbie, and they were thinking selfishly by vote kicking (ironically the other DRG was just a low dps as the BLM, he just got lucky i guess).
So, the BLM gets kicked, and we get a replacement BLM with about 4k hp, who knows his stuff, and we clear the rest of the dungeon pretty easy (1 shot Demon Wall, 3 attempts on final boss since DRG didn't understand mechanics or was able to learn).
But this brings up a bigger question, with that initial group, it would have literally been impossible to actually clear that dungeon in the allotted time. While I wouldn't kick anyone in the group, I would eventually have said after a few more tries "hey listen, you guys have too low gear/too new to get clear this dungeon. Either some of you leave to get a good replacement, or I will leave." Simple as that, I wont wasn't 90 minutes banging my head against a wall.
So what is the appropriate thing to do in this situation? also, I think SE has set the 'gear' requirements too low for a lot of content. If you actually to try complete the dungeons as 'bare minimum' gear lvl, it will literally be a miracle unless you have some 4 man premade with all experienced players and perfect teamwork. Try killing Titan Extreme with the "67" gear level SE thinks you need to kill it. Same thing happened earlier in the week on that fight, Titan EX, I DF'd, and we got some bare minimum 3500 HP person who can't even survive the Titan jumps unless you preshield him with a SCH.
Low DPs in dungeons?
Printable View
-
01-13-2014, 01:02 AMSquaLow DPs in dungeons?
-
01-13-2014, 01:26 AMCYoung187
Had a similar situation yesterday at copperbell hm. We ended up trying and trying on the last boss until time expired. We should have just kicked him but I didn't want to abuse the system. The bard didn't understand the fight mechanics, couldn't dodge aoe, and would not move the rocks. He also never responded when we tried to talk to him. All of us were pretty nice to him as well. He had af armor and all of his accessories were amber rings/earrings/etc, basicaly all vitality boosting gear and no dexterity. Plus like a lvl 42 bow. It was mind numbing.
-
01-13-2014, 01:40 AMTlamila
AK is doable in AF. It was before being nerfed so to more reason now. If he was putting out so low DPS maybe he's only using ice skills? Maybe he levelled through fates and doesn't know his class?
If it was me in that situation, first of all I would have tried to understand what was wrong and explain him the fight since he was evidently new, if it was the case maybe try to explain him how to use skills. This assuming he was responsive and willing to learn.
I once had a similar situation, except I queued with two friends so the BLM outputting no dps (notice how it's always black mages?) was the only DFed member. After wiping very stupidly twice times on first AK boss, we checked his gear and it was decent, so gear wasn't the problem, but it was all crafted stuff, so he might as well never have step foot in a dungeon before. He wasn't receptive to advice, so in the end we just said "sorry, this can't work", left the duty and queued for a new one. When you see you don't have the numbers to beat first boss, there's no chance to complete the res of the run. Especially in that dungeon, good luck beating DW if you can't beat the psyflayer. -
01-13-2014, 01:59 AMwarren-ragnarok
i agree with tlamila, AK was doable in AF gear prior to nerf, just had to know how to play your class and do it well......that was a player issue not gear issue
futhermore, i hope that blm reported them for abuse of vote-kick for reporting him as cheating
imo, if your not willing to help teach newbs, then you just shouldnt use duty finder, where you have the highest chance of seeing them -
01-13-2014, 02:29 AMSquaI was healing and stuff, I really was not in the position to take apart his actions and see if he can improve. ALSO, a lot of times I learned if you try to 'give advice' people may say "fk off" or become hostile towards it like you are speaking down to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlamila
-
01-13-2014, 05:43 AMNekodar
The appropriate thing to do is simply to try to explain things if possible, and at least try the content a few times before deciding to give up.
Sometimes you'll be able to carry the rest of the party if you're very skilled yourself and the others at least make an effort. (Mostly possible in WP, occasionally possible in AK, but less likely in PS, HM HM or CBM HM)
They should augment the minimum required ilvl with recommended ilvl and minimum/recommended weapon ilvl.
Would be nice if there could be a way to measure actual practical skill level of players too, as ilvl tells you nothing about what the player is capable of in practice...
Some sort of solo skill challenges for each job maybe... -
01-13-2014, 06:20 AMDelorean
I thought everyone had to agree on kick for it to go through
still feel like it was a very unnecessary addition to the game in it's current state with the way we keep hearing it is being used. -
01-13-2014, 06:54 AMNekodarVote kick is majority based. Which means in 4 man parties, 2 votes for is enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delorean
Vote kick is also a necessity to get rid of assholes. -
01-13-2014, 08:01 PMTlamila
I really wish they made it 3 out of 4, 2 is really few and easy to abuse...
-
01-13-2014, 08:11 PMZfzFind the problem, solve the problem. In your case you already have found the problem, and if you are not able to solve it (i.e. offer advice on how to play their respective classes) then the only thing is to dissolve the party. What's left is how you dissolve the party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squa
Some people say "lol l2p noobs" and leave. Some people say "I'm sorry but the dps is not enough, yet I don't know how to play your classes also, I'm going to leave so someone else can join and maybe offer advice".
Even people with full myth and Relic+1 could under-perform, I don't think the problem is entirely the item level requirement. Rather, it is SE not making it clear to newbies that they are performing really bad. There's no feedback system in the game other than peer review (i.e. you only find out you're bad after you've pissed people off).
Just try to be polite about it. A lot of people nowadays are so confused they think "not knowing" is equal to "idiot" and start with insults immediately. -
01-13-2014, 08:53 PMWarlyxlike Job quests ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekodar
even blizzard I spaming is more than 80 dps ~~ -
01-13-2014, 09:08 PMNaryorili don't look at the minimum requirement as "you can beat the fight with this item level", but rather as "if you don't even have this, don't bother trying, you'll be too much of a liability to everyone else, they will probably not be able to carry you through". the average item level is only a rough guideline imo, especially since every item is weighted the same. a chest piece has the same contribution to the average item level as a ring, even though it has much higher stats. not to mention people can wear stuff that doesn't even fit their class, especially when it come to jewelry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squa
-
01-13-2014, 10:08 PMNekodarConsidering the job quests are not particularly challenging, they don't match what I had in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
Job quests are intended for you to learn the basics of your job.
The sort of skill challenges I had in mind would be something that requires more than the bare basics to pass.
Maybe make some group content only available to people that pass their respective jobs skill challenges.
Want to go as WHM for that content, pass the skill challenges necessary as WHM, even if you've already done it as SCH before. -
01-14-2014, 12:40 AMflamds1yeah thats just weird was he just autoattacking or something? Since you can join up in multiple languages to speed up the queueing process I think at least some of these people may not speak whatever language you're trying to communicate in. Sometimes you try to explain the fight and get a "k" and the person goes on to fight in a completely different manner than they just agreed to. even in very simple fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
-
01-14-2014, 12:51 AMLordSaviour
My friends and I were running Garuda HM last night.
And we experienced the same thing. Me being an iLv90 PLD in DPS gear opted to OT for more DPS. The MT didn't understand anything we were telling him with placements etc. No one wanted to leave or kick anyone for fear of being punished.
My friends Parser showed me as #2 on DPS list as a PLD. Was awful... And a waste of time. 30Min penalty for leaving a Duty is rough. -
01-14-2014, 01:29 AMCYoung187Sounds like you could have very easily just taken over as MT and been fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSaviour
-
01-14-2014, 02:06 AMLordSaviour
not when 3 of the 4 DPS were parsing lower than a PLD, no matter what gear I have as PLD. I should not be at the top of list.
-
01-14-2014, 06:28 AMMirakumi
I think it's generally the player's fault if they do bad dd. I've been in some really low level ilevel groups and seen some amazing dps come out from them. If someone is having trouble on something you could ask them their rotation and try to help that way. For example was doing Garuda HM and whm didn't know that doing holy can help on plumes if group is struggling on killing them. It's little notes you can squeeze in without sounding like a jerk. That's just me though.