I can't hold aggro on War

Seems like know matter what I do I can't hold aggro on war against a pld. I don't know if its the pld glitch or not. I can spam overpower till I'm out of tp, and an undergeard pld can steals it in secs. I don't know what do. Its bringing me to tears.
I feel like the worse tank ever because of it.
In case for helping info. Relic axe/myth head/ct and DL gear.
What can I do to hold aggro better?

Are you using the main combo till you secure enmity? Ifbtheyre taking aggro you can use berserk to give you tht extra hate. When youre pacified you can just thtow out some flashes. I never have problems holding hate against plds.

Yeah I'm using my combo. Seems like before I can even get skull sunder off they take aggro.
I did not know about berserk working though thank you

Are you talking about ae or single target? Assuming ae, but assuming is bad lol

Why are you competing to steal hate in the first place? The only time we do this with my team is during Spiritbond session after Mini-ADS on turn 1.

If you are MTing, the PLD should be mixing it up with Riot blade. If you are not MTing, why are you trying to steal hate?

Hopefully you're using Defiance... I always figured War was the better enmity generator, but ive never had to pull from a Gladiator... not sure why I would.

But if you absolutely cant do anything to get aggro back (on single target) theres always Provoke (Glad 22) that will put you @ the top of the enmity list. hopefully you have it

i always let the paladin tank the boss xept he is far below my item level. the reason is simple. warrior are the better off-tanks because of our 2 debuff rotation.

Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path (10% less incoming dmg)
Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye (10% more dmg for tanks and 50% less HP recovery)

and all that without building hate. so be a good warrior and help ur tank mate to be even better ^_^

unless you're way undergeared, a WAR with defiance and primary hate combo cannot lose aggro to a PLD. They can come close, and maybe take it for some 1/10th of secs the time your skill hits, but they can't win if you want to compete on that. I tried to troll a PLD once in CM for last boss (nothing to do as an OT before the colossus here) and it worked prety well.

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Originally Posted by Anuri

i always let the paladin tank the boss xept he is far below my item level. the reason is simple. warrior are the better off-tanks because of our 2 debuff rotation.

Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path (10% less incoming dmg)
Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye (10% more dmg for tanks and 50% less HP recovery)

and all that without building hate. so be a good warrior and help ur tank mate to be even better ^_^

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WAR may be better OT, but they are just the same MT than PLD on pretty everything, and should not be underestimated. T4 double dread ? We can survive. Our HP pool makes us a great option for tanking, and though it's a bit less effective than shield oath, we can MT without problems with a healer we can trust ^_^

Be a good warrior, show them your awesomeness as an unkillable sandbag.

(disclaimer : I love to OT for my pld mate when we come to play together. It allows me to drop off defiance and to be a "nearly good" replacement for a dps slot when only 1 tank is needed)

war > pally on single target threat generation its not even close.. butchers block has 280 potency while halone only gives 260.. you also have infuriate/unchained to further boost threat generation

Unchained
Berserk
Overpower
Overpower

Listen to pld go WTF on teamspeak during turn 3

Maybe I worded this wrong. I'm mt pld ot. Pld doesn't take down sheild oath and still uses enmity moves. What can I do to keep strong hate? Like rotations?
A undergeared pld can take hate quicker then I can get it back with BB
Also yes I have provoke

I've never had agro issues even with keeping up storm's path... Although usually if I'm starting a fight or taunting off the pld I'll follow it up with Unchained+Berserk+Internal Release and unleash everything to ensure a massive threat lead for the OT to also go all out without pulling threat off me.

If you still have issues with threat with proper offensive CD usage well then you've got a lot to improve on as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

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WAR may be better OT, but they are just the same MT than PLD on pretty everything, and should not be underestimated. T4 double dread ? We can survive. Our HP pool makes us a great option for tanking, and though it's a bit less effective than shield oath, we can MT without problems with a healer we can trust ^_^

...

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plain and simple no. paladin still is better than warrior because of his cooldowns. not much anymore in 2.1 but still. even further if a warrior is off-tanking now.

and dont come along with "t4 double dread" stuff. i saw pictures where a warrior could mt twintania in 2.0 with 30 str. but at what cost?

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

Maybe I worded this wrong. I'm mt pld ot. Pld doesn't take down sheild oath and still uses enmity moves. What can I do to keep strong hate? Like rotations?
A undergeared pld can take hate quicker then I can get it back with BB
Also yes I have provoke

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thats easy. paladins do RoH combo all the time although they're main-tank or off-tank.

if a warrior is main-tank, he has to cycle thru 3 combos.

Butcher's Block (a little more hate than paladin RoH combo)
Storm's Path (no hate)
Storm's Eye (no hate)

so either your paladin did 3x hate combo in the same time or he had to stand around like an idiot (dps loss).


do your whole party a favor and let the paladin be the main-tank. this way he can spam his RoH combo while u power him up with 10% more dmg and 10% less incoming dmg. usally without "defiance" up what results in better overall party dps.

simple math.

it's the paladins in sword oath doing that. u would be having the same effect if you were to turn off defiance and spam butcher block combo. its a bonus 20% damage to a threat generator... of course it's gonna pull off. if you really dont like it, let them steal aggro, then do heavy swing>skull sunder>provoke>butcher's block. should set you at their high threat + some.

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

Seems like know matter what I do I can't hold aggro on war against a pld. I don't know if its the pld glitch or not. I can spam overpower till I'm out of tp, and an undergeard pld can steals it in secs. I don't know what do. Its bringing me to tears.
I feel like the worse tank ever because of it.
In case for helping info. Relic axe/myth head/ct and DL gear.
What can I do to hold aggro better?

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The issue is PLD has a super combo that does everything for them basically. Warrior juggles two, of which only one gives the emnity boost. Your best option is Infuriate >> Unchained >> Berserk on the pull, then do 2 BBs before you even try to apply the Halone debuff. As someone above said, when pacification hits, spam flash. After that, hate should be smooth unless the dork is trying to yank hate, or severely outgears you.

Lol my war is the exact opposite, had a few plds rage quit CM during a DR because I'd accidentally pull the boss off of them and tank it and all the adds too (not in defiance, 'pulling my punches' even by mostly just using debuff combos). If its an addfest, wars shine because of OP and Steel Cyclone, flash too will make your tanking ability as war go up alot. Also don't use OP on a single target, the only aoe you should use on a single target boss would be flash if you're pacified and need hate (rare situation with the 2.1 enmity buffs). Kinda sounds like your ot plds are going all out in shield oath or something?

Here's what I do to make it where plds have 0 chance of pulling adds off me: flash, OP, OP, debuff combo, regular combo (all while tabbing through targets to hit different ones), vengeance, berserk, internal release, combo til wrath V (should only need a half of one by this point) Steel Cyclone, Infuriate, steel cyclone, rinse repeat while using various buffs, bloodbath, thrill of war, etc to make your healers like you more :P
EDIT: Almost forgot, you can use flash in the middle of a combo without interrupting your combo, take advantage of that if you feel they're out flashin' ya.

When a Pld is OTing that doesn't make him a DPS. Even spamming his DPS combo is not THAT much of an impact. I would rather have my OT paladins do Riot Combo > Stoneskin > ROH combo > repeat than just spam RoH.

To add to everything above, Bloodbath will also add some enmity as well. They're not big heals, but they're still heals and they do count without having to do anything extra as well.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

helpful info

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Thank you for this it was a great explanation. The pld are going all out either to be jerks or not knowing there rotations. Does flash interrupt macros?

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

Thank you for this it was a great explanation. The pld are going all out either to be jerks or not knowing there rotations. Does flash interrupt macros?

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Np. I imagine it would, haven't used macros yet myself so idk for sure.

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Originally Posted by Caraway

To add to everything above, Bloodbath will also add some enmity as well. They're not big heals, but they're still heals and they do count without having to do anything extra as well.

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Afraid not. No self heal abilities generate enmity based on the healing done. Only a small static amount for activating the skill.

Your not using MACRO's for your Combo are you ? if so, its prolly because the PLD is hitting faster than you since Macro /wait 2.5 rounds up to 3 secs. so what takes you 9secs to do, takes him 7.5 secs so he will out threat you quicker. The only othere thing I can think of is your Weapon. The most important thing to increase your threat is your Weapon, make sure its always the first thing you upgrade (If you have issues with threat). Getting more STR will help too.

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

Maybe I worded this wrong. I'm mt pld ot. Pld doesn't take down sheild oath and still uses enmity moves. What can I do to keep strong hate? Like rotations?
A undergeared pld can take hate quicker then I can get it back with BB
Also yes I have provoke

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Equally geared PLD and WAR both in tanking stances the PLD will generate more enmity. Because of the greater damage reduction of Defiance over Shield Oath. Using War CDs though there should be no issues gaining more enmity. Using maim berserk and unchained will increase single target by 85% for a good duration. But really there should be no point in fighting for enmity if you're MT. Tell the OT to just keep their str debuff up and SS people. Or swap into Sword Oath and SS people.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Your not using MACRO's for your Combo are you ? if so, its prolly because the PLD is hitting faster than you since Macro /wait 2.5 rounds up to 3 secs. so what takes you 9secs to do, takes him 7.5 secs so he will out threat you quicker. The only othere thing I can think of is your Weapon. The most important thing to increase your threat is your Weapon, make sure its always the first thing you upgrade (If you have issues with threat). Getting more STR will help too.

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I have a relic. But the macros may be an issue. Playing on ps3 and do it to save space. Cause I don't what I could do without

From what I'm reading it sounds like you're doing your job correctly for the most part, although playing on the PS3 might be impairing your performance some.

Only things I can think of to maybe help would be to reallocate some of your attribute points to Strength. Upgrade your relic to zenith when you get the myth tomes (assuming you haven't already) and double check your rotation.

If the Paladin is your regular OT (and/or a FC member) I'd suggest to them that they swap to Sword Oath. I'll admit that I'm not as knowledgeable about Paladins, but from what I've seen/remember there's no skills/combos that need Shield Oath to be up. The main reason to use Shield Oath from my understanding is to increase enmity and reduce damage taken. The other thing I would suggest to the Paladin is that they spread out their attacks or use abilities that don't increase enmity even if it's a slight dps loss.

2 important things: First of all, the PLD needs to understand that you cycle your combos and that he should be using Riot Blade combo more over Halone on this. This goes for PLD/PLD setups too. Just Riot blade, or SS people, or make yourself busy elsewhere isntead of spaming halone over and over (But make sure the -STR is still being applied).

Second, there is currently a bug in which if you do Shield oath and then change to Sword Oath, the enmity bonus stays. So they get unmitigated damage, and a buff to auto-attack with enmity bonuses. This makes PLD's enmity skyrocket, which can be a problem when OTing.

In fights like titan ex I have this problem as well. If I pull first I can only do one butcher block rotation before I do my storm rotation in order to get it up before mountain buster. Paladins need to learn to watch their hate because it can screw the party if they are spamming their threat combo.

There are plenty of buttons on the PS3 to not macro your main enmity combo. In fact that's probably detrimental, when you could be activating off GCD abilities suck as Berserk, Internal Release, and even Brutal Swing (if you don't need to save for stunning) in between the attacks.. These offer a marginal increase when trying to establish hate, aside from the speed of activating each attack vs waiting for macro

Best bet is to always open with Unchained. If Unchained is unavailable use Berserk. You usually always have one or the other available, it's kinda overkill to burn them both unless its a strict DPS phase (should be out of Defiance in that case anyways)

tell the pld to stop using his hate combo to start.

drop the macro'd combo
for big single targets i open with infuriate > unchained so your not throwing that first enmity combo with -25% dmg down
then i can put up storms path/eye
if anybody has caught up while doing that i can berserk > bb combo

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

I have a relic. But the macros may be an issue. Playing on ps3 and do it to save space. Cause I don't what I could do without

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That would be the #1 reason you cant beat him in threat. It really is that drastic.

As mentioned above, you need to mix other abilities together, to conserve space, but not your basic 1,2,3 threat/storms path combos.

There is a new feature that allows u to hold down L2 AND R2 together, for another set of abilities.

Also, use /chotbar change 1
and /chotbar change 2

to make macros that jump to different bars faster. (cuts down on the number of button presses, to speed things up.)

Honestly, if the PLD is equal geared, there is no reason why he shouldn't main tank. Warriors actually have a good OT rotation that applies two debuffs and also a buff to both tanks DPS. And we do this without generating any hate what so ever. The Paladin has 1 debuff and he can only do so by using his enmity combo.

If you are in Prae or similar and you heavily out gear the Paladin, you shouldn't have a problem keeping aggro anyway. Yesterday, I main tanked CM because the Paladin barely had 4K HP (I have about 7800 with the party buff) and on the last boss, the Paladin ran in first. I go in, do my SE and SP combo and then BB one time, and I had aggro... he probably thought that I was trying to steal it, but I really wasn't. Gear just counts for a lot.


Either way, if you are main tanking and the Paladin is doing nothing but spamming RoH combo, you may just have to forego your SE buff. BB, BB, SP, rinse repeat.

On a side note, OT warriors really need to stop spamming the BB combo.... if you're a warrior and you are OTing, you can use BB every now and again if your other debuffs are up, but spamming it over and over is wasteful when you have two excellent debuff/buff combos.

so i saw 2 issues here
the OP is trying to use a macro for their BB combo which is a major fail

the other issue I have had to explain to my tanking partner during tank switches is to stop spamming fully combo'd halon attacks.

even just using inner beast is sometimes enough of a delay to let them catch back up not to mention the slightly slow animations for warrior attacks compared to fastblade and savage can let them catch back up

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

even just using inner beast is sometimes enough of a delay to let them catch back up not to mention the slightly slow animations for warrior attacks compared to fastblade and savage can let them catch back up

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I was thinking about this too.. Do PLD rotate through their combo slightly faster than WAR? I see the RoH animation all the time before I get BB off, but I'm not sure if they are just spamming the one move or already got the combo off. Surely my skill speed isn't that bad :( Maybe it's because they aren't using the extra GCD for Tomahawk/Shield Lob

:/ Has PLD enmity been boosted even more in the past week or something? I've never seem to have any problems keeping hate from a PLD, On the contrary, they never pass 75% of the enmity bar (and that's a good pld going all out).
You can do what megido said for aoe tanking, same for single target.. so unless something was changed that I'm unaware of then you shouldn't be losing hate to a pld, meaning you're doing something wrong or even missing without noticing.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

There are plenty of buttons on the PS3 to not macro your main enmity combo. In fact that's probably detrimental, when you could be activating off GCD abilities suck as Berserk, Internal Release, and even Brutal Swing (if you don't need to save for stunning) in between the attacks.. These offer a marginal increase when trying to establish hate, aside from the speed of activating each attack vs waiting for macro

Best bet is to always open with Unchained. If Unchained is unavailable use Berserk. You usually always have one or the other available, it's kinda overkill to burn them both unless its a strict DPS phase (should be out of Defiance in that case anyways)

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I did take the macros off. With unchained and beserk threat is easier now.
For ps3 they should make a small bar at the bottom to see when buff cool down. Easier to focus on the 2nd bar

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

I did take the macros off. With unchained and beserk threat is easier now.
For ps3 they should make a small bar at the bottom to see when buff cool down. Easier to focus on the 2nd bar

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Good! Yea it would be nice to see when they are ready to use.. But the more you play and use all the abilities the more you will get a feel for when the *should* be available. Harness your internal stopwatch! XD

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Originally Posted by NyssaElf

For ps3 they should make a small bar at the bottom to see when buff cool down. Easier to focus on the 2nd bar

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That's a good idea. You should make a suggestion in the User Interface forum.

the old PLD OT has no clue what to do situation.

Tell the PLD that if he is going to OT that he should be applying the RoH debuff only when its about to go off its timer. Then, he should be riot blading, Stoneskinning, and god forbid using COVER. Foresight + Cover is a pretty solid CD to pop on the MT. pop it with Bulwark if you need to as well.