Why undercut by a 1,000+??

It will sell if you price it same or a cent less, why gouge it by so much? I don't understand

To piss people off that get pissed off by such trivial things.

Its fun.

Sometimes price are set at an outrageous position. I've seen housing furniture sold at a ridiculous price. There were 3moogle rugs being sold. The first was 100k while the other two were over 530k. There's no reason to even try to sell something that high, period. Also, realize that people tend to splurge on unnecessary things too. I bought a vortex couch for 10k only because the price was so low, although I could make it myself. There were other vortex couches listed for over 100k.

A seller sells their ware door a price they believe can move. Why should they care whether their competitors would rather keep the price at a certain level?

Because low prices sell. If there was a HQ iteam selling for 10, 000 gil and another person selling the same HQ iteam or more for half the price then anyone would pick the lowest sseller. And this is wait I like to call "smart shopping".

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Originally Posted by EA9Sol

And this is wait I like to call "smart shopping".

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Bargain hunting/shopping also applies.

Hi, I'm one of those undercutters. The gist of it is this:

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Originally Posted by Little_Ifrit

To piss people off that get pissed off by such trivial things.

Its fun.

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The more detailed response is that (note that these are my motives and not necessarily the same as everyone else who undercuts) I've already established my markets. I have absolutely nothing to lose. People entering my markets are deemed "nuisances," especially so since the vast majority of them are looking to make some quick gil for housing and whatnot. As such, most people don't have the time, patience, or initial capital to constantly get undercut, so they leave. I effectively force people to look elsewhere by crashing my own markets when they enter and then resume monopolising when they leave. If they persist, then prices remain low and both parties lose out. Dirty, but effective.

why not ...some people just aren't that greedy

I guess a good reasons is to move the items. I spend the time to farm the items I spend the time crafting the item I can can sell it however i feel like is business. Is like buying at Walmart or out your corner store. Pick where you want to spend money I remember a heavens eye materia 200k 300k and when people say F that the sellers lower the market to sell items

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Originally Posted by IfritReborn

It will sell if you price it same or a cent less, why gouge it by so much? I don't understand

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It's not profitable to put things up for as much as you want. If you've grossly overpriced an item, mine isn't going to sell even if it's 1 gil less than yours. It's not me, it's you.

I'd undercut by that much in hopes that the other sellers will "give up" and let me sell my bargain priced item first. And if they don't, it is a race to the bottom.

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Originally Posted by IfritReborn

It will sell if you price it same or a cent less, why gouge it by so much? I don't understand

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Well, I will make you understand.

Undercutting by 1 gil is nothing else than childish behaviour. A mature approach to staying competitive would be offering your product to the lowest existing price, not undercutting it.
Of course, since the market system in ARR is broken by design (e.g. by allowing to enlist an item and even adjusting prices without a fee), this 1-gil-undercutting behaviour is hard to avoid. Whatever you do, someone will undercut you by 1 gil just to be listed ahead of you in the item overview. And that's highly annoying, because it simply leads into an endless undercut-each-other-by-1-gil downward spiral. Undercut more, turn off childish mode and offer a real bargain, and the spiral will end earlier.


As a "senior crafter" who capped all crafting classes when each one took about a month of dedication, I lost my patience at some point. I am able to create any item basically form scratch without buying any ingredient from the market. So, at this point, I told myself: "You want to undercut me? Well, no problem, I can show you what undercutting really means".

And since then, I put my goods up for sale for the current price, without undercutting. Exactly the same price. Let's say "68'731 gil", and I make a note of the retainer's name who offered this price. when I come back a few hours later and see that this person has undercut me, although I offered to be 100% fair, then I undercut. And I undercut in a manner which may make him or her think twice next time: I undercut down to the next 10k gil mark, in the example it would be 60'000. If he/she undercuts again, I go down to 50'000. Until he/she gives up, then I adjust my price back up to the identical value. And if this still happens, well, I can go down all the way, because the only investment I need to cover is the time I need to farm/gather/craft the ingredients.

It also often happens that there's more than one undercutter. This is when the real fun starts. Undercut them down by maybe 50%, wait a few hours, and both of them will surely follow. They will start to undercut each other. Then I adjust the price back above original value, in this example it would probably be around 70'000 gil, and enjoy watching the undercutters undercutting each other at the 30'000 gil mark, with a gap 40'000 gil between them and me on 3rd place of the list. That's the fun part! I can always pull out and adjust the price to its real value, but they won't. Heck, sometimes I even consider buying the stuff from them and offering it to my price, knowing that they will make a loss and be extremely pissed off, and me making additional profit.

Oh, this works even better with multiple identical items. Undercut only with one of them, keep the others on the "real" price. You may be surprised, but most undercutters really still undercut you, although it is obvious that you're driving them out of the market this way. With multiple items, you can even go down to 1 gil if necessary, because the profit from the "real price" items will cover the expenses for the bargain one.

You think you can undercut me? Then I'll show you what "undercut" really means. That's how economy works. Nobody said it has to be idiot-proof and everybody gets what he deserves. And there is a simple way to avoid running into this economical trap: stop undercutting.

Sometimes, I am too lazy to check the price for things. If they were obtained from quests/treasure maps/made extras for a leve then keeping them is just dead weight. Sometimes I am just cleaning out those stupid retainers (they are always full!!!) and don't want to exit the retainer screen, check price, and go back. Either way, there is no loss involved since my main goal is to get rid of the item. Heck, I've even been too lazy to sell it on the AH and just dropped things on the generic merchants for nearly nothing.

Becoming virtual rich with gil doesn't mean anything to me.

Took me about 2 months on and off to cap all my crafts. Every time someones under cuts me by 1 gil, I go down 250 gil to 1000 gil depending on the item. If my item didn't sell, then it probably won't sell at 1 gil lower. Also it saves up space on your retainers. The faster you get rid of things, the more you can sell. Currently you can only sell up to 40 items, 20 on each retainer, not good when you item doesn't sell for days just because you are greedy and won't lower your selling price.

I'm no great crafter. I do have a surplus of goods sometimes and just need to see it move. I won't undercut 1k but I'll always go in increments of 500 every 2-3 days just so I can put more stuff on the market.

It's never a "loss" for me because I always gather my own materials. I'm not making gil hording tons of items in my bank.

I don't have the patience to analyze an inherently irrational system. It's why I didn't go into economics.

I always look at past history for how much the item has been selling for. If it has been selling for 2k all the time and there is someone selling the cheapest at 5k I am still going to put it up at 2k since if I do it just below 5k the item is much less likely to shift. Also I am likely to make more money since the likelihood is I will be able to sell 3-4 at 2k in the same time as I would have been able to sell one at 5k. This example was more in respect of the lower end goods but it applies across the board.

The other point is by putting items up at 2k I am more likely to discourage crafters in crafting the item since they can get a better profit elsewhere hence cutting down the number of undercutting I have to deal with.

As I gather nearly all materials myself most of it is pure profit for me anyway. But if it comes down too low for my tastes I'll just hold on to the items until the market recovers a bit.

As for the opportunity market, sure you can make a quick buck if you gamble and get lucky.
But you need to be prepared that people will undercut you to even less than half your price quick and there is nothing you can do.

Me, I am not a gambler.

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Originally Posted by Zipdar

... and don't want to exit the retainer screen, check price, and go back.

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Why would you do that? You can see current and past prices directly in the retainer's price set screen ...

Because if I sell my item for 1 less gil and my retainer is in ul'dah but yours is in limsa, then the potential buyer if in limsa will buy your item rather than spend 100+ gil travelling to ul'day and avoid the tax just to save 1 gil as overall it men's he lost.
If I am undercutting, I want to be the cheapest option no matter where the player is buying from.
If I am making 30k+ profit on an item, reducing that by 1k to ensure I am cheapest is no big issue to me.

Perhaps the vendor had a sale that day?

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Originally Posted by Asteldian

Because if I sell my item for 1 less gil and my retainer is in ul'dah but yours is in limsa, then the potential buyer if in limsa will buy your item rather than spend 100+ gil travelling to ul'day and avoid the tax just to save 1 gil as overall it men's he lost.

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For that I have alts "parked" in each city by the Market boards / FC chest and if there anything I want / need quickly and it's worth purchasing it "localy" I'll quickly login to the respective alt to purchase it and then transfer it to my main character via FC chest ... saves money on travelling as well as paying taxes for cross state purchases plus it's almost as fast as travelling there with the main character.

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Originally Posted by HEC

Why would you do that? You can see current and past prices directly in the retainer's price set screen ...

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Ha!!! Gotta figure out how that works. That's why I read the forums - learning something new all the time.
Stupid me, I was checking retainer inventory, close, look at boards, write down price (well in an open notepad file), go back to retainer and sell.
I got fed up with that quick!

I should get a "U B Stoopid" achievement for this!

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Originally Posted by Zipdar

I should get a "U B Stoopid" achievement for this!

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It's not your fault that certain game designers missed their "Designing an intuitive User Interface Basics" training course.

it seem like everyone automatically thinks that the OP is over pricing by thousands. I also share the same hate you have OP. Example: If i have an accy up with a history for 3k and person B comes and undercuts to 2k. All it does is you make less money and create downward trend..its dumb. sell it for what it sells for, you will sell your piece I will sell my piece and everyone is happy. When you create a downward trend people think that the original price is too expensive..on the other hand you have the guy that puts up things in the market place for cheaper or same price you can vendor it for...why? does it really take that much effort to just click on history and press a few buttons..its really sad overall.

Market history is key to whether or not you worry about an undercutter. If you are selling an ite. At 10k and are cheapest, but player b sees that in the recent history it has sold for 6-8k consistently, he will undercut you by a lot knowing that buyers also review the history and unless desperate will not buy your item at 10k nor player b item at 9.9k.

On the other hand, if you are selling that item at 6k and player b sells at 4 or 5k, then don't compete, let him get the quick sale because one cheap sell does not make a trend and buyers will see its a lucky one off and happily buy yours when it is the cheapest again coz player b has already sold his.

Undercutters are only a problem if you try fighting them in the wrong situations - in scenario 1 a fight is wise because you overcharged anyway, in scenario 2 it just means now 2 items will sell undervalued and there is risk of setting a trend

I like to undercut the 2 star items by 5 to 10k just to show the other crafters I mean business

Doing what's best for the consumer!

I undercut by several thousands because when I under cut by 1 gil, I have had more buyers buy the item that costs 1 more gil than mine via history and it irks me.

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Originally Posted by Vyroxe

I undercut by several thousands because when I under cut by 1 gil, I have had more buyers buy the item that costs 1 more gil than mine via history and it irks me.

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That also depends on where you are selling your item. Some people are willing to travel to another city state just to avoid paying taxes.

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Originally Posted by Azeni

I like to undercut the 2 star items by 5 to 10k just to show the other crafters I mean business

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Haha, I do the same.

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Originally Posted by Azeni

I like to undercut the 2 star items by 5 to 10k just to show the other crafters I mean business

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Undercut by a lot, and post several items - they'll either fold or double down - but you won't be playing the undercut by 1g game long

The fact that people are able to just price war items down by thousands of gil without another enterprising merchant simply purchasing all of the gouged items and relisting them at the original price shows how weak the economy of this game is. In my previous mmo, people who cried this hard about market competition and tried to gouge prices of their chosen marketshare were eaten alive financially by the true businessmen. Granted, this game had an economist on staff with the developer who monitored the market and was involved with decisions on things that may have a negative impact on the market.

I find it funny that people say that 1 gilling people down is bad for the economy, so their idea of making it "healthy" again is crashing prices. The market board is pvp selling, if you can't hang with people who actively manipulate their prices to be more competetive than yours than I would argue that the seller who gets frustrated and undercuts by a massive margin to make a "point" is the one who is acting childish. Yes, tell me more about how I am supposed to care about your wallet or be fair to you while you throw your tantrum. In the end you are only helping the buyers, not hurting me.

I'm usually just trying to get things out of my inventory as fast as possible. Posted an item at the same price as another player, and then was undercut.

My goal is not to make the most money. My goal is to get some money by selling something that has no value to me. I play this game like maybe 7-8 hours a week now. I'm not gonna sit beside a summoning bell all day and play undercut wars with another player.

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Originally Posted by Senfei

The fact that people are able to just price war items down by thousands of gil without another enterprising merchant simply purchasing all of the gouged items and relisting them at the original price shows how weak the economy of this game is.

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no one is stopping anyone from doing this though. I have done it before while selling Vanya stuffs. But really this game has ZERO uses for gil. Housing doesn't count because it is simply not worth it at the moment.

I would have to edit names out a screen shot I just took to post it, but it shows a materia going from 4K, 3.2K, 3.5K, 3.5K to 2.4K to 1K and now available for 80 gil..... the history goes back to 2/1. Buying out the low cost isn't worth it at this point due to the sheer number available all the sudden.

This is the same story across a lot of materia (along with many other items) over these last few days/week for whatever reason. Something needs to be done to how the markets are tracked. Instead of having the vendor sell price put as the asking price, they need to put the average over the last 7 days as the asking price. I believe this would stabilize pricing much more effectively then basically everything starting at 1 and 2 gil.

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Originally Posted by Senfei

Snip.

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I don't know where you got this idea that wasting hours of your life sitting in front of the market board (excuse me, "actively manipulating prices") makes you a "true businessman" while real undercutters are crying and throwing tantrums, but I'll tell you a few things about real business.

Real businesses in the real world secure market niches through drastic undercutting. Some of the largest businesses in the world have made brands doing precisely this (Walmart and Amazon.com come immediately to mind).

Real businesspeople in the real world sometimes act for reasons that have nothing to do with maximizing profit. They have grudges and feuds. They do things to celebrate or to give the neighborhood kids a safe place to do their holiday shopping or just because their spouses asked them to.

When real businesspeople cannot win, they change the rules of the game. You want to play "let's see who can check the market board most frequently." That is a stupid game, so I decide that we're going to play "how low are you willing to go" instead. I have good reasons for my decision, but it really doesn't matter. I don't have to have a reason for selling things at whatever price I choose. That is how business works.

If participation in the economy is bloodsport, then suck it up and act like it. You are right: there is nothing in a free market that keeps you from acting like a tool. But neither do you have any ground to criticize or complain when everyone else decides to change the game so it isn't rigged in your favor, and you certainly don't have any place suggesting that they aren't doing capitalism right just because they don't do what you want them to.

I seem to have offended you, my bad. Let me try to be a little more concise of my point this time. My thought process on consistant undercutting follows the theme of effort = reward. If you put in the effort, you reap the benefits. You may not like it, much like a casual player may not like how they don't have enough time per week to cap out their myth tomes and fall behind... but is it the hardcore players fault the casual is falling behind because they do? This is my baseline on the subject.

My second point is that the economy in this game is weak, and undercutting is a much larger nuisance than it should be because your items literally will not sell due to how slow the market moves compared to the amount of items poured into it in some areas. If the economy was good, undercutting slightly would just mean your item doesn't sell first, it just sells later. In a good economy, undercutting by -a lot- would do nothing as it would be bought and re-listed at the current baseline price for profit. In a good economy, one player could not use walmart/amazon tactics because in a good economy, one player would not have the financial clout to do so. Your FC working together, perhaps. But you alone, no. But alas, this is what we have.

Anyway, opinions. We all have them. The only thing I think we can agree on is a point an above poster made. There is almost no use for gil in this game. That alone is a major problem that is creating a lot of the issues you are seeing/having. Fear of RMT or whatever you are inclined to believe as to why things are as they are, the fact is that beyond being a window dressing for our HUD there is very little practical reason to have a lot of gil.

-Sometimes I like to post several stacks of an item for a very high price, just so my competitors KNOW that I have plenty of supply, and I'm not going anywhere ;)
-If I need lots of a particular item, I often leave the cheapest few, and buy out the ones that cost slightly more in the hopes that prices continue to go down (it has worked).
-Sometimes I undercut drastically, just to make other sellers look for better profits (I'll sell my crafted item for 50k, when other items that require the same materials are selling for 60k so other sellers don't bother with the "lower profit" item I'm selling - but now have cornered).

There are lots of strategies other than selling your item at the highest price possible.

I like to undercut prices on what I'm selling. I don't sell on the MB often mind you. But the reason is because I'm just trying to move the item. I don't care who buys it. If I can turn a profit on a useless item in 5 minutes by making the price lower instead of waiting for the item to sell at standard price that's a benefit. I've also noticed other people sell items at the price of my item after I undercut the high people. This benefits the consumer in the end. We spend less money and get what we want and I still make a profit without waiting around. I see that as a win-win. There isn't a lot to do with your gil currently as we all know. There is little reason for the greedy people who are trying to make massive profits to make those kinds of profits except to maybe one day buy useful things if the game developers give us something real to use it on. So... to each his own in the battle of the MB

Undercutting can be beneficial, and I think many people either forget that, or are ignorant to that fact.

If you are selling an item for 100k, but maybe only making 10k profit because of materials, someone undercuts by 10k, then you aren't going to be happy. But if the net result of undercutting means that the materials to make that item drop in price, then maybe eventually we'd be in a situation where we could sell the item for 80k and still turn a 10k profit.

Too many people want to make big bucks in a week and are angry when they can't. I think far too much is being made about the undercutting issue, and I think it's been blown completely out of proportion.

As a buyer.. if I see you posting 1 gil less I will skip your pathetic undercut and go to the person who had a "solid" price.

I would rather pay 800gil than 799. To me your undercut is a slap in the face!

As a seller I will always undercut by at least 10 gil on items in the 100-900gil range. If they are higher then that then I will likely undercut by more. Why? Because its not a SALE to me unless I offer better value than a skinny gil.