Dungeon time limits have to go

First time this has ever happened, but I was in a dungeon and we actually failed it. There were a lot of newbs to the dungeon, so we wiped a lot, but we hung in there. We made it to the last boss and failed because we only had a minute left on the clock.

People, I completely understand making a MMO challenging, but when there are a myriad of people who don't have the same learning curve as some of the rest of us, I begin to question ridiculous measures like time limits on low level dungeons -- especially since a good deal of the game is focused on team play. How am I expected to help new people out when this game simply doesn't give me enough time? Needless to say, I don't know if I will ever be returning to play this; after a 45 minute wait in queue and then another hour crawling through a dungeon, I am inclined to spend my time on more satisfying ventures outside of this game.

This cannot be done. If there was no limit to the number of servers for each instance it could be but because there are simply limitations on how many they can have active at once allowing for people to stay in one for an unlimited amount of time is just not possible.

If you're leaving the game then why are you bothered about dungeon timers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maku

This cannot be done. If there was no limit to the number of servers for each instance it could be but because there are simply limitations on how many they can have active at once allowing for people to stay in one for an unlimited amount of time is just not possible.

---

Nailed it there. There are only so many instances set up for dungeons and other quests, so you can't have people hogging all the instances. That's why there's a time limit.

I personally don't want them to remove the timer, 90min is more then enough time to finish a dungeon and any group that can't finish one within that timelimit is not very likely to finish it with more time.
Most dungeons in this game can be finished within 30-40min, some even less then 20min, it all deppends on ppl playing their class ok and avoiding AOE.

I agree the timer should be removed. You're paying a subscription, so you're paying to be able to be in a dungeon. You shouldn't need to clear out after 90 minutes to make room for other people. FFXIV should improve its instancing so that people can run the dungeons however long it takes.

I've been in groups of new people that were learning each fight as they went, dying at least a couple times on each. That eats up a lot of time, and players shouldn't be punished for playing, learning the game, and overcoming challenges together.

If there were no time limits to manage the amount of players in instances, then there would be lockouts (5 dungeons per day, 20 per week, etc.). I'm fine with the time limit, which in the vast majority of cases is more than ample to finish the dungeon. I've only timed out once, and it was flying blind in Pharos Sirius.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

I agree the timer should be removed. You're paying a subscription, so you're paying to be able to be in a dungeon. You shouldn't need to clear out after 90 minutes to make room for other people. FFXIV should improve its instancing so that people can run the dungeons however long it takes.

I've been in groups of new people that were learning each fight as they went, dying at least a couple times on each. That eats up a lot of time, and players shouldn't be punished for playing, learning the game, and overcoming challenges together.

---

Then explain to other players trying to get an instance reserved why they can't do a quest because everyone else is hogging the instances and some possibly trolling by not doing the quests and going AFK. I paid for this game and I have the right to be able to have an instance open for me and my group. Learn to share.

If it takes you more than 90 mins or two hours then you deserve to be booted from there. Your party just isn't working out. Get a new one!

For the people who cant finish it, maybe they'll get teamed with a better teacher the next time.

First off as many other before have suggested 90 minutes is more than generous in regards to finishing a dungeon even with people who are completely new. Many of the people complaining about the "learning curve" more than likely skipped numerous steps along the way.

If your have not run a dungeon before at the very least you should have watched a walk through video. There are several guides for each dungeon and it's recommended that you watch 2-3 different ones before attempting a new dungeon. If not then your wrong. Which dungeon in particular are you referring to that you are having trouble with?

Next make sure that you have completed all of previous dungeons, and guildhest up to the dungeon you are currently trying to enter. The mechanics that you learn in these dungeons help prepare you for future dungeons. It is a step system and often times people skip steps and expect that they will be ok. If after all of this you are still having trouble, and you've run the dungeon multiple times without sucess then maybe this game isn't for you. Something to remember....its ok if you fail the dungeon the first time. Your not suppose to get everything in life handed to you. If it was so easy that everyone cleared it the first time everytime then what would be the point in playing. Why not just skip the dungeon and give you the loot for free. Better yet just go watch a movie. This way you can get all of the story without any of the effort involved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nabian

.

---

95% of dungeons are facerolls if everyone knows how to play their job (attempting to stun boss attacks, sleeping extra mobs, etc). Watching a video isn't really required for them. I really don't think it's anything about being 'new' to a dungeon, it's about knowing how to play your class.

Most dungeons can be completed in 30 minutes. If you can't beat it in 2-3 times the amount of time that is the norm then there's probably something wrong with your group.

I did most of the story dungeons with an FC group without looking up any details of the fight. They're pretty exceptional players. We cleared most dungeons within 30 minutes or maybe a little more knowing nothing going into them. Some people are good at games like this, others aren't. If you feel a run isn't going quite as well as it should maybe you should just cut your losses and try for another group.

Made all my dungeon in DF. Last night, i succeed AK for the first time, in DF. The Tank took the time to explain strat and methods to do a speedrun.
So we rushed and did it whithout wipe in less than 40 mn. I'm WHM ilv 55 and they said it was enough for a speedrun.
Always the same mechanics in order :
- be well stuffed;
- a good team;
- avoid aoe !;
- heal yourself;
- heal the Tank;
- heal the dps
and resurrect if you have the time and the mana.
If you respect that, the pve hl is reachable. 8)

I was in a DF Qarn group full of entirely new people. We died several times at each boss, learning the mechanics. We reached the final boss with about 15 minutes to go. We died a couple times. Everyone was having fun. We could have beat Qarn with more time. It would have been a pretty satisfying win, but 90 minutes wasn't enough time for a group of strangers with average gear and no knowledge of the dungeon. Instead the group failed, and I didn't get a chance to complete the dungeon with those people.

Some people in this thread think that if the content is challenging for the group, the group should give up. Others think that gamers should be booted out of instances to make room for others, because the instancing technology is bad.

What if instead the instancing was fixed, and players were allowed to enjoy the challenge for as long as they wanted?

Because some of us are stuck in the middle, I'll hardly ever leave the dungeon especially if someone is trying to learn I'll try to stay and help and try to make it somewhat fun. On the other hand after that long many times I'm often praying for the clock to move faster so I can just gtfo and move on lol. With a fun group its ok, but I don't want to get a 30 minute penalty for leaving a dungeon after I've spent an hour and half trying to help some ppl learn and they just can't seem to get it or just don't have enough dps for a part. Making it w/ no timer mean that If i decide I'm done helping after 3 hours I'm still gonna get a penalty for leaving early. I'm sure that could probably be tied in somehow like giving you no penalty after 45 minutes or something, but would still not fix that problem that as nice as some ppl are and want to help, not many want to spend 3 hours helping ppl in a dungeon that can be run in 30 minutes even w/ other grps of new ppl. If it IS a group of entirely new ppl, I'm not gonna recommend giving up, but your time would be much better spent just googling or youtube a strategy for a part your having trouble with.

If anything I wish the time limits were lower. I don't want to have to spend so much time with a bad party that clearly can't figure things out.

I think the main reason they put a time limit on dungeons is they didn't want some guy to just to afk once he finished a dungeon and have him sitting in an empty instance by himself for along time.

I'm just wondering why other mmorpgs I've played don't have timers if it's so impossible...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saevel

If there were no time limits to manage the amount of players in instances, then there would be lockouts (5 dungeons per day, 20 per week, etc.). I'm fine with the time limit, which in the vast majority of cases is more than ample to finish the dungeon. I've only timed out once, and it was flying blind in Pharos Sirius.

---

Then explain why other MMOs are able to do dungeons with no time limit? Only "time limit" is achievement based, clear under xx minutes for an achievement, otherwise take as long as you want. Just admit it, SEs server structure is not upto modern standards, and the imposed time limit is a glaring arrow pointing at that fact.Not to to mention the limited housing slots available,

The time limit is a huge indicator of your party's chances of succeeding, IMHO.

I've failed Pharos Sirius, Titan, and Garuda due to the time limit expiring. And in every case, we simply weren't good enough to complete the dungeon, as evidenced by the fact that the next PUG I got into nailed it first time. There's nothing that says 'you were in a bad party' like defeating Titan in a matter of minutes when you've just failed at it for an hour and a half.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

I agree the timer should be removed. You're paying a subscription, so you're paying to be able to be in a dungeon. You shouldn't need to clear out after 90 minutes to make room for other people. FFXIV should improve its instancing so that people can run the dungeons however long it takes.

---

90 minutes is time enough to wipe many times and even then finish. If time is up you can try again in other moment. Nice people will stick with a bad group and help to learn for a long time, but not forever, if you have no timer, they will probably quit before.
You can't expect people to have that much time available when they start a dungeon. People work, study, and have other things to do.

I assume the dungeon in question was Aurum Vale? That one is indeed a bitch on the time limit in a party full of newbies. I still think the 90 min timer is good. It makes wipes matter. I remember in WoW I could solo alot of instances because there were no timer. I could take down mob groups 1 at a time and it did not matter that it took 4-5 hours because there were no timer. It was even possible turtling down some bosses.