Superficial

I was replying to the vanity thread but was straying far from that(this post is barely about Vanity infact) so I just decided to make my own post.

Way to many superficial people play this game. Not only in the sense of vanity, but a lot of people believe a few item level points will make or break an encounter, when in reality players skill is much more important in this game. It seems to me most people care not about having a good time, and only care about the fastest route they can make to acquire those pixels. Their seems to be a hell of a lot of miserable people out there that don't even play this game for fun. Many are just after that epic piece of crap item that will become obsolete in a few patches.

Just because someone has more pixels, has progressed further content wise at this point in the game means literally nothing, but people judge others on this everyday. It only shows that they started earlier and have spent more time in the game. If you want to segregate yourself go for it, but I wouldn't suggest it.

When I started playing FFXI it was around Christmas time of '04. The only thing I can figure is that most elistist players were far ahead of me so I got to play with normal people through my rise in that game. I could be very wrong, I don't know. People were just nicer, less douchy, back in the day it seems.Is it just me or was their WAY less people using voice comms back in 04/05/06 in FFXI? People used them, my Dynamis shell did. They were never a requirement though, and no one was ever excluded based on this. I don't have a problem with voice comms I just feel they take away something. Everyone seems to think they help a lot, but the truth is people are just lazy. Not one encounter in the game is greatly benefited by their use. It just seems back then people would talk more in parties(talk, not only talking to complain).

I guess partly what I am trying to say is: people judge their fellow players way too much based on things that don't even matter. You can dudge them on their play, fine, but to judge them before you have even played with them is just wrong IMO.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

Is it just me or was their WAY less people using voice comms back in 04/05/06 in FFXI? People used them, my Dynamis shell did. They were never a requirement though, and no one was ever excluded based on this.

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Yeah funny that.

FFXI was still early in the days of MMO's. The only decent games at or before FFXI was EQ1, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Lineage, etc.

The community was young and learning.

Now days in FFXIV, you have more veteran MMO players playing the game than new people who are new to MMO's. Very few of the people playing FFXIV have never played an MMO before. And very few people playing FFXIV never played ffxi (most did play ffxi that was the appeal of coming here in the first place).

Also back in 06 most people didn't even know you could do voice chat. People were playing on pentium 4's.

In my opinion, voice chat is very important.

The competency of a player is dependent upon 3 factors: latency, experience, and learning ability.

Voice chat is like a 50% buff to experience and learning ability. Those experienced with the fight can share their experience much more easily and quickly with voice chat. Also, with voice, you can get thing you won't get through typing (certain social and environmental cues) with helps with the learning experience in new fights.

The only problem that arises is when you discriminate based on the voice that you hear... which.. well... The voice chat program isn't really at fault here is it?

I think this is one of the major issue with all the complaints and worries at the moment. People are playing this game in to of much of a rush, trying to get the best items they can in the shortest amount of time. Instead should be taking the time to ensure everyone has the same experience. This game would benefit much more if people disregard the vanity you mentioned and began helping those that do not have the same skill or knowledge as their own.

There were snobby elitist jerks ALL over FFXI...just they normally confined themselves to the HNMLSes. Not on PC? On PC but not willng to run a claimbot? Not already geared with the armor you're joining this LS to get? Don't have BLM leveled? You're a DRG? GTFO

Also, XI was a turn-based game so you had lots of time to type in party chat, linkshell and send tells all at the same time while playing.

This game is much faster paced so it helps alot to have vent/TS/mumble or w/e. Especially during EM battles or coil.

80s kids were brought up with better manners than 90s and any subsequent ones because back then, that stuff mattered and we weren't overwhelmed with as much "distractions". It only gets worst and kids nowadays grow up full of entitlement before ever earning their first paycheck which leads to the behavior we have now.

On a more game related note, to be honest, voice chat only helps as a coordination, it doesn't really help if you need to listen to it for a movement. For example, if you wait for someone to call out plumes, it's probably too late to move because of latency. But if someone preemptively said, ok plumes is next after this, then it'll be okay but you still need to know yourself when to move. However, it's roughly the same speed to type it for the average fast typer or someone with well prepared macros. Having said this, the SE chat is still buggy as hell and not scrolling half the time so voice chat has an advantage over that...

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

In my opinion, voice chat is very important.

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agreed. If people want you to get on voice chat to participate, there is very little excuse not to get on voice chat. You don't have to grind to use voice chat, its not some mystical house worth 320 mil gil that takes months of time to grinding money to acquire. its a usually free or very cheap program that takes 2 minutes to install and setup.

I don't judge players on ilvl of experience of any of that bullshit, but I'm huge on voice chat. I bought a server, its free to everyone in my FC. People on ps3 are able to put the client on their smartphones and chat from there, so having a ps3 is not an excuse. the only real excuse is being on PS3 AND not having a smart phone (which I can let slide then).

plus voice chat tends to be a really good bonding experience for FC members. you can talk freely about nonsense in voice chat. you have to stop everything your doing when you text chat.

To be fair there is one legitimate reason to not use it and that's if you're hearing impaired.

Also some people are absurd itt, this is a video game you play it for enjoyment, and people aren't required to do anything that doesn't give them enjoyment. Crying about the lack of philanthropy is utterly pointless no one is going to take their time to wait for the progression of random strangers unless they enjoy it, a minority at most.

There's more emphasis on gear because mmos these days have hard gear checks. Not able to burn DPS phase of boss? wipe. Maybe the skill level of players have gone down as well.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

To be fair there is one legitimate reason to not use it and that's if you're hearing impaired.

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also completely fair. hadn't considered that one >.>

I almost entirely agree with you OP except about voice comms. I duo any MMO I play with my partner and the reason we're able to do as much content as we can do together (we have often done full group content as a duo, or duo'd as "sub-par" combinations in previous games to a great extent) is because we can communicate in real time (and also because we've been playing together for years and know each other's movements really well).

There's never a point where you can communicate something faster by typing it over speaking it. I'm a pretty quick typist, and can often talk while talking in dungeons, but I can't do so well enough to give strats or pointers mid-fight. I can do that while on the phone or voice chat though. It's extremely helpful when doing difficult, timing intensive content.

That said, there has been a shift in priorities for the gamers playing MMOs over the years. The comment about MMOs now having a lot of vets doesn't really hold because it isn't the MMO vets (FFXI, EQ1, etc) players who are often the ones that are an issue. It's the comparatively newer breed that have come in (or those newer ones who weren't trained by the old guard EQ-style players).

It's a difference in game design philosophy that encourages different behavior as well. In this game, and many others, the only time you need others is for the dungeons; quick (comparatively) encounters where you can then go on your separate ways. In older style games you needed players all of the time. Unless you were certain classes you couldn't even reliably get to max level without the help of other players or you were willing to spend an extremely long time grinding up much smaller mobs than yourself.

I count myself lucky that my first major MMO was Vanguard, and it was kind of a half/half breed of MMO. It had a lot of the old school stylings to it that encouraged grouping, built a reliance on the non-adventuring classes (crafters, gatherers, and unique to that game diplomats were all very much needed). Getting a bad name had repercussions, it made it harder for you to get groups if people knew you as a jerk. And if you were in a guild acting like a jerk? Your guild leader heard about it and it could mean as much as losing your guild tag (which meant loss of a lot of perks).

There's little recourse for jerks in this game though. Duty Finder is designed so that there can be no to little repercussion for being a jerk. I sincerely hope that eventual adjustments to interserver party lists, friends lists, and importantly block lists, are made.

'04 means most people were still using AOL on a 56k modem. Voice chat just wasn't an option for many back then or their comps would implode. (hyperbole, don't hate)

Getting vent was the best thing I ever did in ffxi. Camping fafnir at like 4 am, chewing the fat was the only way to stay awake and make that monstrosity of a content bearable.

Yeah I don't use VC or TS or w/e, really no reason too.
If you don't know the fights, someone talking isn't gonna help.

If you need someone to call plumes for ya, you need more practice.

I really didn't mean to place much emphasis on Voice chat, but it seems that Is what everyone wants to talk about.

I agree with Kingatlas.

Strategy should really be discussed before hand, and let the chips fall where they may. This makes people better players IMO. Having someone scream(talk loudly) in my ear doesn't do it for me. Voice chat often seems like a crutch for poor play. As I said though, I don't mind voice chat, I just simply feel it isn't necessary.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

Strategy should really be discussed before hand, and let the chips fall where they may. This makes people better players IMO. Having someone scream(talk loudly) in my ear doesn't do it for me. Voice chat often seems like a crutch for poor play.

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Voice chat allows for:

1. Spur of the moment decision-making without the potentially deadly hassle of typing instruction out in text. Mistakes happen. They can be dealt with much more smoothly and quickly when those involved can coordinate without pausing what they're doing to type.
2. Audible reminders of mechanics coming up to help keep people from "tunnel vision"-ing too much.
3. Streamlined coordination between members.

and perhaps the most undervalued but arguably most important:

4. A healthy social dynamic. Running Titan or Coil or EX primals or whathaveyou in complete silence simply cannot compare to the chatting and shared real laughter amongst friends as we clear content. It grounds you in the experience by providing real life context for your game play and helps cement interpersonal relations. In short, voice chat is a fantastic social tool.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Voice chat allows for:

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I understand the benefits. I just don't think many people should require it. Not having it(or being in vent) does not prevent you from knowing your role and playing your part.

AS I said before though. Didn't mean for this thread to be about voice chat. It is titled Superficial.

Also, a small point, but I think there might be a bit of nostalgia associated with how things used to be.

I could not live on a 56k Modem right now. And as much as I loved my DOS games, I will not play them because they are simply not up to par compared to games today (granted some have that special spark that I revisit such as Master of Magic).

Some people are jerks, and I'm probably one of the most anti-social people that I know of. However, I find that, if you're willing to send a whisper and personally ask, most people are nice enough to accommodate your needs.

In regards to voice chat, I just find that things go smoother with it then without. For example, if someone's falling asleep on Titan Extreme, an energetic voice calling out "Stack for Bombs, Bait landslide, Pop cooldowns, etc" can make all the difference between a good, motivated, coordinated group and 1 person making a mistake.

If I'm running coil with and 7/8 are on voice chat but one player isn't, then I have to type everything I could have just spoken. It's certainly not mandatory for content, but if most of the players plan to be on voice chat anyways, I'll make it mandatory for that last slot or two or else it defeats the purpose.

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Originally Posted by MACEenyo

I understand the benefits. I just don't think many people should require it.

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I was trying to counter your assertion that voice chat is a "crutch for poor play", which is a description that rather denigrates the legitimate benefits of using the tool. It's not a crutch for poor play. It can make good players work together better.