Crafting needs to become more relevant

We all know how gear progression in this game goes. You work your way up through the ranks, relying on quested or crafted gear from 1-50 and then onto Darklight. From there it's AF2 or allagan pieces, with perhaps a stop-gap of Crystal Tower gear. The looming question here is where do crafters fit in?

None of the top-tier gear can be melded, so the need for materia dies down, and the highest craftable (and meldable) gear is only on par with Darklight in terms of item level. With philosophy tomes now quicker to obtain than ever, gear crafting is quickly becoming irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

I propose adding level 90 items to the craftables list and giving players more options. As a counter to that, I also suggest that more gear is added for crafters to reach higher levels of craftsmanship and control so that we can eventually make these stronger items, similar to how current 2-star items have control and craftsmanship requirements.

Higher tier 'dungeon-level' gear could eventually be added with crafted items being required for the process, giving us more of a presence at endgame. As it stands, there's little to no reason to ever use crafted equipment once you hit level 50. With equally strong equipment being more cheaply available through the medium of philosophy tomes (2250 tomes for Vanya body/head vs 1350 for DL body/head), craft items have bottomed and people are moving away from paying for items they'll only use in the interim.

I have no problem with these high level items having a dungeon requirement. Add a system of being able to craft items for another player (and while we're at it, bring back the 1.0 system to repair them for others too) without needing to trade everything, and then create unique/untradable items which are used in the gears manufacturing. You could have these items drop from high level dungeons or fights.

I see crafting being pushed slowly aside in favor of unmeldable dungeonwear, and with FFXIV having such a unique and enjoyable crafting system, that's simply unforgivable

100% agreed...even with crafters being able to make things for the houses, armors should have some relevance.

The real problem is that the crafted i70 armors (with what, two pieces as an exception to this?) cost more Philosophy Times than their DL counterparts do.

You do not have to build up to DL. You can instead build up to the 2 star crafted gear, and from there go to Allagan/Myth with perhaps CT as stop-gap.

Relevant for the i70 to Allagan/Myth climb? Nope. Relevant after hitting 50? Up to the player.

I agree introduce gear to convert into something else that drops in coil or CT or whatever they bring out in 2.2. Make it drop very rarely and make it require a ton of other stuff, catalysts and rare mats, maybe introduce myth mats? make it really hard to HQ, like really hard, make it able to hold materia and then make it iLvl100 or whatever so that it is BiS. Make it hard enough people need to take weeks to get it.
Just an idea.

Crafting wil not be revitalized until 2.2. Just how it is.

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Originally Posted by Githiun

Crafting wil not be revitalized until 2.2. Just how it is.

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Sad but true.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

None of the top-tier gear can be melded, so the need for materia dies down, and the highest craftable (and meldable) gear is only on par with Darklight in terms of item level.

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This is sort of a disingenuous statement though give that melding it puts it on part or superior to CT gear (and vit melded jewelry is fairly popular for T5).

I do like the idea of high end crafting gear building off dungeon loot: Have HM/XM primals and BCoB enemies have a chance to drop loot that you can then use to make ultra high end crafting gear.

The real problem here is that people only really need 1 gear for every part for a class. Currently in FFXIV, there is no requirement for people to need 2 gloves for example. You simply chase your BiS and that's all you need to survive through PvE, even up to the hardest content. For example, there is no need to switch between an Ifrit Blade or Garuda's Gaze, because the 2 different stats on both items (Fire Res and Wind Res) do not matter in the game. Therefore, if you have the Garuda's Gaze, it's a direct upgrade over the Ifrit's Blade, and there is no reason to use Ifrit's Blade if you have Garuda's Gaze.

I think what could have been done however, would be something similar to the "Blunt" equipment (ie. Blunt Goblin Longsword, Moth Eaten Coatee). If Coil gave people something like an "Unpolished Gauntlets of Fending", then they would need to seek an Armorer to help them craft it into an Allagan Gauntlets of Fending, for example - and make it non-tradeable too. I don't think this should be applicable to Mythology gear however, seeing that Mythology is capped, and you can only get so many pieces of Mythology gear every week. While this doesn't solve the "need for materia" issue, but this might be a good first step to getting crafters to be a part of the current dungeon-oriented end game. Then maybe, the crafter can take those Allagan Gauntlets of Fending, and perhaps upgrade it into something like Allagan Gauntlets of Fending Zenith, using some rare materials which can only be gotten via Coil (something like a boss drop, such as ADS Frame), which would unlock materia slots and the ability to meld materia onto that item.

A good working of the example above, would be the required weapon for the Relic quest. A crafter is required to craft and meld your pre-relic weapon, before you are able to get your Relic. But without a crafter, you would not be able to get your Relic weapon, which is arguably at the moment, the best and most accessible weapon to people at end game.

I love the crafting in this game, it's the best I've seen yet. But strangely enough, its also the most USELESS of any game I've seen. It really bugs me, I love crafting in games and it was the main reason for me to keep playing before I hit 50 on my Scholar.

Everyone being all classes really is a killer for the craft. I mean there are people that don't want to craft but there are also countless people that are everything.

I agree 100% with this matter. I love crafting in this game but it is usseless in it's current state. No way of making money with ir or gearing oneself for end-game content. I know the dev plans are for raiding to be the main way of getting gear but still, it would be such a waste no to take advantage of the crafting system...

Atleast I have hope that the sitituation will improve, even if only temporary, when the vanity system come. I atleast will start making and buying all kind of clothes to make my ideal combination. Also perhaps, just perhaps, housing will help, althought the way it is with only rich FC getting them probably with loft of crafters doesn't look like it will be of much help...

I will continue crafting, even if is just for fun, but is so dissapointing not being able to gain any guil with it...

It will improve in 2.2 because they'll add in many more crafting recipes including higher ilvl recipes. That part is 100% fact. Now for speculation

As seen in many other MMO's most likely what they'll do, IMO.

When 2.2 comes out there will be another group of turns opening up in Binding coil. They already said every other major patch they'll add. So this time was CT, Next time will be BC, then CT etc.

When 2.2 releases they'll add in recipes that will compete gear wise with Current CT and/or Allagan gear so new people can gear up quicker as they did with i70 pre-2.1. the new Turns, say 6-10 or whatever will still be superior but the new crafted gear will be a filler between CT/T1-5 and T6-10.

Then 2.3 will come out with new gear making crafting obsolete again. Thats my prediction.

Gear/recipe progression needs to be kept aligned with Dungeon gear.
I hope that at some point they'll introduce:
- Ultimate+1 crafting tools
- 2 stars crafting gear
- ilvl 80-90 recipes that will require drops from CT/BC and would require 2 stars crafting gear to make them. These should compete with Allagan/Myth if correctly melded and would be nice enough so that people would want them for Vanity slots.

To me it is simple. They need to make endgame gear depend on three things: (1) a dungeon drop (crafting mat), (2) catalyst of some kind (gathering), and (3) a crafter has to actually make the item or upgrade the item over what the dungeon drop is. I think ONLY by having all three of our systems intertwined will be have a successful endgame that makes everyone happy. Which is what people have saying for a few months. Materia/dying/crafting are all useless at endgame and it shouldn't be that way.

i think it would be nice if 2 things drops
the actual gear and a set of items(rare drop/can be sold) that can be use to turn that gear into a +1 gear so you get your base gear and then collect the items get a crafter and upgrade to +1.

They do need to make crafting relevant outside of housing. Adding an abjuration system would make that possible. Using current gear as an example, Allegan/AF2 gear is ilv90, but there could be a craftable item made from dungeon drops that can +1 either piece.

If they don't want to go the +1 route, they could use the same system to make non-meldable gear able to hold one materia.

Of course they could also make it so that the dungeon drops the -1 version and you need a crafter to actually make the gear. I don't think many would like this though.

We just have these wonderful systems such as crafting, materia, and dyeing. I just want them all used. Why is so bad to have to rely on someone else to make part of it. That's the whole point of a damn economy. Sure some people could do all of it but the majority will need to rely on someone.

Wouldn't consumable buffs for different slot pieces be a better option than just upping the craftable iLvl? Gear is a one and done thing and at some point everyone will have the gear they need.

Consumables don't directly compete with raid/dungeon gear and seeing that SE already said they don't want crafted gear to be the best gear it'd seem silly for crafting to attempt to compete with it.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Higher tier 'dungeon-level' gear could eventually be added with crafted items being required for the process, giving us more of a presence at endgame. As it stands, there's little to no reason to ever use crafted equipment once you hit level 50. With equally strong equipment being more cheaply available through the medium of philosophy tomes (2250 tomes for Vanya body/head vs 1350 for DL body/head), craft items have bottomed and people are moving away from paying for items they'll only use in the interim.

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This would be nice. It's a nice balance between the two. I also agree with how melding is non existent at end game. They should make some end game dungeon gear meldable. That way, people still need to do the content for the dungeon gear, but it would keep crafted gear needed to convert into materia.

The materia system I think was a great idea. It just needs some tweaking and expanding upon.

"Confirmed with Disciple of the Hand lead

Currently there are no plans to add any new low/mid level crafting recipes.
We designed FFXIV so that gear obtained from dungeons is more effective than crafted items.For their first class, players can gain equipment from the main quests so we don't think they should face any problems. But we believe there are other chances to use low-level gear, such as creating materia or equipping them when leveling a second class."

To be honest, I found out pretty early on that combat gear was a bad market, but why can't we just ask for more crafting that doesn't involve battle gear. Everything is always just fight, fight, fight. We could ask for a high-speed mount that gets zero aggro that would need crafters to make the body, and to make engine parts that would need to be replaced over time. We could make bags to increase the size of a players inventory where HG bags give you more, and with multiple types strictly for aesthetic value. A new type of accessory that would use a special type of materia that would only effect one or two of your max HP/MP/TP/CP/GP amounts. I've posted these things twice before, so this is all just a major repost. I don't care about making new battle gear anymore thanks to the official response, and I would like to see more alternatives to battle gear instead. /End Rant/ /caffeine induced anxiety/

If the devs want to keep crafters and gatherers out of end game and their precious dungeons, then so be it. However, they should at least do something to keep us entertained, even in a less than ideal economy.

I think it would be potential fun and entertaining if they incorporated some sort of in game system that generated some sort of "artificial demand." That way the economy wouldn't be totally reliant on a top heavy player base. Something along the lines of turning in batch commissions to "help the war effort" or something like that. Players could be rewarded with special crafting tomestones, and could be used to get special equipment and materials. If implemented correctly, give players the excuse to buy up and use up materials, keep their surplus off the market board, and give players somewhere to turn in their stuff when other players don't need it. NPCs would always be interested in taking it off your hands.

Just an idea.

They kind of already have that. The GC daily supply missions have you crafting something (or gathering 5-10 of that something) and handing it in, for exp in the relevant class and GC seals.

I don't know that anyone at 50 is using those, because the rewards are so crappy. There is an achievement for a BiS crafting jewelry piece but it requires so many hand-ins that most people are content simply pretending it does not exist.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

There is an achievement for a BiS crafting jewelry piece but it requires so many hand-ins that most people are content simply pretending it does not exist.

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It's not that they require too much work. The problem is that they do not support materia.

Back in the day of Everquest if anyone remembers. End game drops were molds in later expansions. You farmed a raid boss then took that mold with other materials and had it crafted. Very similiar to our relic quest.

It'd be cool if they integrated that. Take your AF armor, farm a boss get a mold then take the AF+Mold+ whatever Mats and take it to your armor crafter, leather worker, etc and have your item made.

I used to make so much money in Everquest from tip's. Tips for making things for people. Teleporting people....oh yeah..you youngsters and your travel system. How about a good sow potion and see you in an hour. "Need a Bind please, if I die i'll have to run again"

This also comes from people having every crafting class....It used to take FOREVER to level one class..let alone every class. I'd be ok going back to allowing 1-2 main DoH classes and then getting all or one DoL class.

Everquest is still like that, actually.

Visible armor pieces (head, chest, arms, wrist x2, gloves, legs, feet) all just drop as generic "Tier whatever slot piece" that you then hand in or otherwise make a no-fail combine with to produce the actual armor piece. That was a decision so that raids would stop seeing the 34th Cleric BP without seeing any Ranger BP's or Monk BP's. Basically, that one drop works for whatever class loots it to produce the visible armor piece.

Nonvisible slots (the other non-weapon slots) still drop as actual equipment, rather than conversion pieces, as do weapons and shields. The expansion before the current one, however, went to an "all/all" nonvis system, where anyone can use any cloak or neck or rings or whatever, but the stats are tailored for a specific class or two. Most people hate that new system, but Sony brought it into the current expansion, Call of the Forsaken, released in the second half of last year.

As for the rest .. I'm guessing you stopped playing EQ years ago, before they added the Guild Lobby and Guild Hall. While the Plane of Knowledge put a real damper on the money Wizards and Druids could make off of porting people around, the Guild Hall put that idea to rest, permanently. You can tune the GH portal to just about any wizard or druid port location, and transport many people, up to and including the entirety of your guild, for one low fee. Comparing the economies of that game and this, this game's teleports are extremely expensive compared to the cost of setting the GH portal. Not to mention that most people are bound in the Lobby nowadays (convenience factor, if you die, pop a cleric merc, summon your corpse, get buffed, and then get back in short order through the GH and its portal). Despite the game's age and the fact that it is on its what, 20th? expansion, and that it has a ton of zones, the game itself does not feel all that much larger than FF14, just due to the sheer speed at which you can travel from one end of the world to another.