Coil Turn 4 tips

hey guys. so our group is still struggling to beat turn 4. We are fairly well geared, almost all mostly ilvl 90.

We are stuck on the transition between phase 5 and 6. When you got one dreadnaught half way dead or so, and another drops with the other 4 mobs and rook.

We got paladin with 6600 health using hallowed ground, myself warrior with 8600 health tanking adds and kiting, a dragoon taking out the rook, and rest of the dps on the half-dead dreadnaught...but we cant seem to survive.

Sometimes, the dragoon cant get the rook off healers from heal aggro, most of the time the paladin dies, and occasionally i cant get aggro from all mobs...

anyone have any tips? Help Appreciated. Thanks and happy new year.

Sweaty

During that phase, as a MNK, I use LB1 on the room, but only after I get a few hits in, and also waiting for the room to use Pox(when I see the cast bar I move behind and pop the LB). Not sure what the casters do, but I help burn down the Knight, and move to the Dread. And it's a wrap after that, because everyone ranged stacks on me for heal spam. Hope it helps, and goodluck.

What we do there is have our SCH focus on main tank (PLD) tanking the 2 DNs and have WHM heal off tank (PLD or WAR) gathering knight, soldier and 1 bug and kiting them far away. We feed one bug to 1st DN (low HP) and have our ranged DDs kill the rook (we have only one melee who stays on DN). When rook dies, all DDs focus on the 1st DN at low HP. After that the DDs kill knight and soldier and finally the bug. Then there's only the last DN left.

As soon as tanks have gotten the mobs, they use Hallowed ground (at least MT, OT may be WAR). After HG has worn, the MT uses tank LB (usually 1 bar LB). After that has worn he uses his other cooldowns. Eye for an eye and Virus from healer help too. WHM should have Shroud of Saints up for this phase and healers have to time their casts well during phase transition so that they won't pull hate.

Hope this helps, good luck with the turn! :)

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

We got paladin with 6600 health using hallowed ground, myself warrior with 8600 health tanking adds and kiting, a dragoon taking out the rook, and rest of the dps on the half-dead dreadnaught...but we cant seem to survive.

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Bolded part is wrong - all dps should burn the rook as soon as it spawns, then go back to whatever they've been doing. Also, you say that 1st dreadnaught is half-dead, so I assume that you're doing 2-dreadnaoughts strat and 1st knight-soldier pair is already dead?

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Sometimes, the dragoon cant get the rook off healers from heal aggro, most of the time the paladin dies, and occasionally i cant get aggro from all mobs...

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Either healers are overhealing, or PLD is not using cooldowns properly, or both.

My group has all DPS burst down the Rook then goes back to finishing off the nearly dead Dreadnaught. Soldier/Knight combo that spawns from last phase goes down next (the two from Phase 5 should already be dead) then the final Dreadnaught.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

My group has all DPS burst down the Rook then goes back to finishing off the nearly dead Dreadnaught. Soldier/Knight combo that spawns from last phase goes down next (the two from Phase 5 should already be dead) then the final Dreadnaught.

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We use the same strategy. Usually the bard picks up the Rook and just dances around it while the rest of us burn it within seconds, then right back to the dread. We use tank lb once the last set of adds drops too. That, combined with tanks using hallowed and other cooldowns makes it pretty easy on heals while the dps burns down a few mobs.

So at that point you should have:

2 dreadnaughts (1 at about 70% health)
1 Rook
1 Soldier
1 Knight
3 bugs

What my party does is this: 1 tank holds both dreadnaughts, OT grabs the rest of the junk except the rook. Everyone burns the rook asap. Then switch back to the dreadnaught with lower HP. Then kill the dreadnaught with 100% hp. (In our party, the whm focuses on keeping the PLD with the dreadnaughts up while the SCH keeps the WAR kiting the junk alive). Once the 2 dreadnaughts are dead, everyone focuses on the knight while I, the blm (and only caster in our group), use an AoE LB. Then we just AoE whatever might be left, usually half a soldier and part of a bug.

The last 3 weeks, we've finished without even seeing the enrage/pulse phase. However, the pulse phase is why we started killing the dreadnaughts first (well, after the rook, which has to die ASAP as pox can ruin everyones day.)

As warrior offtank, I found kiting in bigger circles (around the center of the room) resulted in a lot less damage taken and our healers could focus on pally. Here is what we do:

-Have monk kill rook with lb
-Have everyone else focus the half dead dreadnaught
-I kite the solider and knight around in big circles until the first dreadnaught is dead (I'll use my weakern cooldowns if needed)
-I then use vengance and have dps finish them off

From a healers point of view.
If WHM:
Very important that they time their shrouds. It's better to push it too long and not use it than use it to early and not have the agro drop at this phase. This is the only phase IMO that really should be an agro problem for a WHM.

WHM should have Stone SKin on themselves. Move into the middle or where ever tank will be picking up adds. This "may" cause you to eat a hit or two which is why I stress Stone Skin. Wait 1-2 seconds for tank to get adds then move back out to the outside to avoid AoE's.

If Cooldown's, Virus, E4E are not properly done on the PLD then there is a very strong chance that the PLD is going to get rocked. Do not chance it, KEEP that PLD topped off becaus they could get a really bad set of hits and knock them down to nothing easily.

If you're not focus healing the PLD then be sure to help the other healer. They will need help most likely. I perfer to be on the MT(whm). If you're going to lose a tank it's probably the MT so focus on the MT, more spike dmg/hard hits = unexpected death.

Again though, I cant stress how important it is that they time their shroud right. ONce those drop I usually give it 2-3 seconds maybe a little longer and then pop shroud because I want to get that agro the hell off of me.

Soon as 2nd dreadnaught drops, MT uses hallowed ground, dps should be on the rook at this time, a DRG or MNK should LB the rook, and the OT should be gathering the adds as well. Top MT off, and you got around 8-9 seconds of MT taking no damage, so focus heal the OT while immunity is up. Rook should be dead a few seconds before MT hallowed ground wears off, and dps should already be back on the lower dreadnaught.

As soon as the MTs hallowed ground wears, 2x virus needs to go out, one on the lower dreadnaught, and one on the 100% hp one. At this point the MT needs to pop sentinel.

Once this occurs, your OT needs to be doing circles big enough to not get hit too much, you will still need to heal him, but too small of circles means you're getting hit too much and taking too much of the MTs heals.

The low dreadnaught should be dead by the time sentinel wears off, even if he isn't, and if he's close, virus should still be on them both, so he should be able to survive till it dies.

If the MT is still dying, your dps is too low, or you both aren't saving defensive cooldowns for this phase. The main thing here is, you need defensive cooldowns available to use as a WAR, right after hallowed ground drops, because the MT will be taking massive damage, he needs the majority of the heals.

Healers need to drop agro after the 2nd heal lands after the 2nd dreadnaught drops or he will turn and cleave them. Also healers need to be aware to use NO HOTS right before the 2nd dreadnaught drops or he will immediately turn and kill them.

also, make sure your OT is kiting the mobs far enough away so that no bugs run to the dreadnaughts. If either one consumes bugs, it will most likely wipe your raid

what if, in phase 5, you killed dreadnaught instead of the knight/soldier...then the MT is just tanking one normal strength dreadnaught and OT is kiting around 2 soldiers and 2 knights?

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

what if, in phase 5, you killed dreadnaught instead of the knight/soldier...then the MT is just tanking one normal strength dreadnaught and OT is kiting around 2 soldiers and 2 knights?

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It's called "1 dreadnaught strat", a lot of groups do it this way.

Main tank - Dreadnaught
Off-tank - Collects everything else and takes them to the rear of the Dreadnaught
Summoner - Casts Bane on all of the targets and then casts LB1
Bard - Foes Requiem

They're all dead before the start of Phase 6.

I would like to note that it's not the end of the world if one or two spiders get eaten during the last phase. It actually makes the fight alot quicker since you can omit killing two bugs, that also mean your off tank will take less damage and your healers can focus more on the main tank handling the two dreadnaughts.

What's your group's dps composition?

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Originally Posted by Dano

I would like to note that it's not the end of the world if one or two spiders get eaten during the last phase. It actually makes the fight alot quicker since you can omit killing two bugs, that also mean your off tank will take less damage and your healers can focus more on the main tank handling the two dreadnaughts.

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Yup, we always feed one to the first DN. It won't stay up long anyway.

well at the moment, we seem to be struggling with having 2 non-buffed dreads on the paladin, so i dont think we wanna feed the spiders just yet. but of course moving forward we might do that yea.

Our DPS is usually 1 bard, 1 dragoon, 1 blackmage, and the last spot is either black mage or a monk or a bard

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

well at the moment, we seem to be struggling with having 2 non-buffed dreads on the paladin, so i dont think we wanna feed the spiders just yet. but of course moving forward we might do that yea.

Our DPS is usually 1 bard, 1 dragoon, 1 blackmage, and the last spot is either black mage or a monk or a bard

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We are running a very similar DPS composition (we have 1 Dragoon, 1 Monk, 1 Bard and 1 Blackmage), other than that we have 2 Paladins, a Whitemage and a Scholar.

We employ the so called one Dreadnaught strategy. In the beginning of Phase 5 we usually feed all bugs remaining from phase 4 (we usually don't bother to kill all of the bugs in p4, as it's not really needed and we are not very AoE heavy in this setup) to the Dreadnaught that spawns in p5. Maintank grabs Dread and all of our DPS burns down the dread as fast as possible. The Off-Tank grabs the soldier and the knight and tanks/kites them. Once the Dread is dead, our DPS switches onto the knight (except for the BLM who switches to the soldier for obvious reasons) for the remainder of p5. Usually none of both will die before p6 sets in. Once p6 hits, our Bard grabs aggro of the newly spawned Soldier, so the Off-Tank only needs to pick-up the new Knight and pops Hallowed Ground instantly. This way the Off-Tank doesn't have to handle the inc dmg of 4 adds on him. Once the OTs Hallowed Ground wears off, our MT pops Halowed Ground, too and both healers focus on OT during that time. In the meantime the Bard just kites the Soldier while DPSing it at the same time. The rest of our DPS focusses on the rook, which we also use a melee LB on. The Main-Tank only grabs the new Dread and the bugs are fed to the Dread right away. After the Rook is down, our Melee DPS take care of the half-dead knight, while BLM switches to the half-dead Soldier. Melees takes out second knight afterwards, then assists the BLM (if necessary), while OT grabs aggo of the Bard's Soldier, which is killed next. After that only the dread is left and you are set and done.

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

well at the moment, we seem to be struggling with having 2 non-buffed dreads on the paladin, so i dont think we wanna feed the spiders just yet. but of course moving forward we might do that yea.

Our DPS is usually 1 bard, 1 dragoon, 1 blackmage, and the last spot is either black mage or a monk or a bard

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End of the day, if tanks are dying it's either the healers fault or the tanks fault.

1. Healers fault: They are not anticipating the spike in dmg after HG and Cooldowns drop and they can't get the tank topped back off. OR. The OT healer is not helping the MT healer
2. Tanks fault: Add's are attacking healer, healer has to heal themself instead of tank, tank dies. OR. Tank doesn't rotate cooldowns properly and takes significant spike dmg.

Are healers running out of mana, is that a problem?

Are you running Scholar/WHM? Whats the healers gear look like. TBH, I downed T4 in Full DL, Strategos ring and +1. So you don't need Myth gear to do it. I was lucky that the group I was with was very well geared though so they carried me a little to that end.

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Originally Posted by dimsumdarren

hey guys. so our group is still struggling to beat turn 4. We are fairly well geared, almost all mostly ilvl 90.

We are stuck on the transition between phase 5 and 6. When you got one dreadnaught half way dead or so, and another drops with the other 4 mobs and rook.

[snipped]

anyone have any tips? Help Appreciated. Thanks and happy new year.

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There are a LOAD of ways to do the last few phases, but the two most common ones are:

(i) The "Double Dread" method: Kill the Knight/Soldier in P5 then start on the Dread.
When P6 starts, MT should be NORTH in order to pickup the new Dread immediately. OT should be a little to the SW of the center in order to pickup the Soldier/Knight immediately. The Spinner Rook always spawns to the NE and should be focussed by the DPS and killed within the first few seconds, or competently kited and slowly killed by a single DPS. Spiders can either be fed to the new Dread (have healers stand directly WEST) or pulled away to be fed later (have healers stand further SOUTH). At this point, stagger cooldowns and Hallowed Ground/Holmgang, both healers switch to healing whichever tank is NOT invincible. If you have two PLDs, the OT should use their HG first, followed by the MT ten seconds later. By the time both HG wear off, the old Dread should be dead. DPS should then shift to the new Soldier/Knight, and finally to the New Dread.

(ii) The "Single Dread" method: Kill the Dread first in P5 then start on either the Soldier or the Knight.
When P6 starts, MT should be in North again to pickup the New Dread immediately. This time the Healers should be standing West in order to feed the spiders to the New Dread straight away. The OT should pickup the new Knight and Soldier ASAP (Use Tempered Will to avoid Pullbacks from the old Soldier/Knight if a PLD). As before, the DPS should focus the NE-spawning Spinner Rook and kill it first unless you have a very competent DPS who can reliably kite it. After teh rook, focus the OLD Soldier/Knight, then the New Soldier/Knight then the New Dread.

Once you only have the New Dread left, everyone stack up behind it and be ready to spam AoE Heals whenever the arena rage timer kicks in.

It really depends on your DPS and team composition which of those routes to take.

I will say though that our FC has finally started to manage to consistently clear T1-T4 in a single night with two non-static teams a week, and the method we tend to use is the Double-Dread one, with two PLDs staggering their Hallowed Grounds (OT first, then MT).

For positioning, look here (might be slightly outdated now, but it will give you a rough idea of the spawn locations!)

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Main tank - Dreadnaught
Off-tank - Collects everything else and takes them to the rear of the Dreadnaught
Summoner - Casts Bane on all of the targets and then casts LB1
Bard - Foes Requiem

They're all dead before the start of Phase 6.

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That is AWESOME.
I wish we consistently had the DPS for that method... :D

Try switching the PLD and WAR's roles of MT and OT.

PLDs are better at kiting the Soldier and Knight while maintaining aggro with flash and CoS spam. Their defensive cooldowns also last longer and don't require you to be near a target to activate(inner beast/holmgang/etc). This way, both healers can just focus on the MT and I assume you are already using Voice Chat so let's say if your MT(WAR) suddenly needs major healing, just have the healers simply call out for the PLD to either pop Hallowed Ground or a defensive cooldown to take the stress off the healers.

PLD is also able to mitigate a rather significant amount of damage due to Tempered Will(skill that prevents draw in effects). For it's entire duration if timed right, will shave off about 2 hits from both the soldier and knight compared to if you were to be drawn in by magnetic pull.

But as many have said, all DPS should focus on the rook to kill it ASAP before moving on to the dreadnaught. After 1 dreadnaught goes down, be it the one with less HP or more Stacks from bugs, all the DPS can focus on taking down the soldier and knight. After that, have everyone stack behind the final dreadnaught and prepare to heal through the enrage unless your DPS is obscenely high, then just down the final Dreadnaught and collect your win.

The method I see the most success with

1. Tank handles both dreadnaughts
2. With the bugs come down, feed them to the already full life dread (the second one)
3. All dps burn rook
4. Burn the old dread
5. Burn knight and soldier
6. Kill the second dread.

Feeding the bugs works amazingly well. They have a lot of HP and you waste a lot of time killing them. Doing this strategy easily lets you finish before the AOE phase begins.

Kite method seemed best for me in static & in pug party . Pt setup Pld , War , Blm , Smn , Whm , Brd , Drg , Sch . everyone in party using respective HQ food ( yes this done with 4/8 1st time members , T4 win took less than 90 instanced mins :D )
P1 - Aoe everything
P2 - Pld take west pop , War take north pop . Drg + Brd join Pld Knight kill party , while Blm & Smn burning Pld's Soildier . Then after those down , party repeat same with War pop .
P3 - Whm's feeding dread by standing near Pld , party burn dread . All party members going fast in center !!
P4 - Paladin running to center , flash 1 Rock ( spiders will be approaching also ) , mark it "1" (tanks must stay targeted on rocks to avoid "POX") then flash all bugs that gathered around , sametime War have to grab rock , mark it 2 & turn around from Pld (still those must be in center for aoe burn) . Then burn those (there's hint that better if all party concetrate target on rock also so all auto att + single target moves will reach rocks only , since bugs will be finished by aoe's).
P5 - War grabbing dread , pld grab knight/soldier ( moving them to wall ) . Party killing dread 1st (if there poor dps , there's potions that can help to boos it for 15 sec) , while paladin build strong hate + maximize damage on knight (Knight usually losing 1/4 hp bar , not much but still good) :D. Party other than Drg still stand in center of room !
P6 - Dreadnought will pop so War grabbing new dread also , dread from p5 or already dead or @ 1~2% so finish p5 one 1st . Party soon as p6 starts is 1~2 second standing in center . Pld soon as see pop on hate list (idk maybe this is my issue only but mobs pop lil after they pop on list T.T) fast using Tempered Will , running to center Flash/Circle mobs and start kite it , while kite need watch out carefully when& how use CD's and Sprint (Sprint some may see this as junk move , but this is real life saver cause Pld can fast run out Knight attack distance , so will be not dragged in) . Party going to dread back as p3 . Kiting mobs goes only around half of room , all other players standing behind dread , exept Drg (who has to approach target ) . On 1st kite circle Pld feeding bugs to dread , same time all DD's + mages burn rock , then pld use hallowed @ stop so DRG approaching and LB Knight (that one was lost 1/4 hp on p5) , same time all party exept War joins Knight & x2Soldier killing . After those dead party gather together behind dread for aoe heals , Pld switch to Sword Oath and Burn Dread . There is chance than enrage starts , but for this reason party already gathered behind dread for Aoe heals :)
I hope i didn't missed anything important .

If your WAR is having issues picking up the mobs maybe have him not kite? We had aggro issues until we had everyone stack together, even the dps. Both tanks (2 PLD) would hallowed ground followed by Sentinel then combine weaker cooldowns. WHM needs to watch their aggro here as well. We single target limit break the rook then go back to old dread. Kill order for us is rook > old dreadnought > soldier > Knight > (feed spiders) new dreadnought. Everyone stacks for aoe heals.

anyway, thanks forthe tips guys. we downed turn 4 last night.

We had the knight killed in phase 5 so I would not get magnetted everytime trying to kite...then i just kited 1 knight and 2 soldiers around, we killed rook and fed the 2 spiders....we had 2 dreadnaughts up for about 5 seconds and finished turn 4 with only 1 pulse on the enrage. so good times!

For the aggro issue have everyone stack where the took spwans so all the adds go straight to the OT. Have the PLD use HG when dreads spawns so no healing has to be done. Only on the OT. When HG runs off have the PLD use 1 cool down every time one runs out. Works like a charm for us. Have the OT run around using cooldowns and using the aoe spell that reduces incoming damage from.mobs. if your tanks are dying its either your healers or tanks not using cooldowns properly.

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Main tank - Dreadnaught
Off-tank - Collects everything else and takes them to the rear of the Dreadnaught
Summoner - Casts Bane on all of the targets and then casts LB1
Bard - Foes Requiem

They're all dead before the start of Phase 6.

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I asked my SMN to try this and he died from his own dots when they got baned to the Knight.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

I asked my SMN to try this and he died from his own dots when they got baned to the Knight.

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If you cast all your dots on the soilder and then cast bane you will take no damage from dots. We do this weekly. He most likely took damage from the LB1.

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Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

I asked my SMN to try this and he died from his own dots when they got baned to the Knight.

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Our SMN has been doing this for months and it only hits him once from the bane, does not kill him.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Our SMN has been doing this for months and it only hits him once from the bane, does not kill him.

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Interesting.