Why does the game hate Spellcaster so much?

No incap, no flashy nuking AM, and now no auto attack. Im about to retire as conjurer and switch all my stats to DoW

Actually Flashfreeze does incapacitation.

dom is considered a battle class

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Originally Posted by Archadius

Actually Flashfreeze does incapacitation.

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It is a temporary incap, dont help for drop :(

Where did you see there was no auto-attack for DoM? I for sure did not see that stated anywhere? If you are basing yourself on the development video that was in Producer letter XI are you also going to assume that Archers don't get auto-attack as well?

Also we have incaps, altho they might not be working that good but there is a few spell that binds, slows movement/attacks. We have sleep also which not exactly an incap is a usefull CC spell. I don't remember if there is silence yet but it will come if it's not there and I might also be forgetting other spells that DoM have. So I think you are just complaining for nothing.

Edit: ok you mean incaps for NMs? well idk maybe we got nothing yet but I don't see why you need to complain about it right now, it's not like there is any content to whine about, they might add stuff when there is actually stuff to do.

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Originally Posted by Shinigami

It is a temporary incap, dont help for drop :(

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Are you sure - we were playing around with a mage the other day and found that based on his location vs the monster he could damage specific body parts...and then break them. But if in the wrong place he'd just do a something generic.

"• Battle classes only will receive auto-attack."

"dom is considered a battle class" - sent by Physic

Yeah sorry my bad, i read to fast as usual :/

And about incapapitation i mean incap NM or regular mob: for exemple incaping the horn of an algoat so you have higher chance to get algoat horn +3 while farming to make a hq item

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Originally Posted by Shinigami

And about incapapitation i mean incap NM or regular mob: for exemple incaping the horn of an algoat so you have higher chance to get algoat horn +3 while farming to make a hq item

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That's exactly what I was responding to. We found that to say incap the head/horns, the mage needs to stand directly in front of the monster, and you could damage that body part. If the mage stood to the side of the monster he could not damage the head/horns.

since you can't cast in passive mode, nor can you cast turning around, DoM would also be throwing auto magic missiles as well.

Why do people think going active starts auto attack...

It could easily require an extra "Enter", "Left Mouse Click", or "Gamepad Select Button" to initiate auto attack and engage. A healer is not going to want to spam magic missiles just because they are in active mode.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

Why do people think going active starts auto attack...

It could easily require an extra "Enter", "Left Mouse Click", or "Gamepad Select Button" to initiate auto attack and engage. A healer is not going to want to spam magic missiles just because they are in active mode.

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Say's who? we don't have a healer in this game yet. We're all redmages/(subjob)

Not to mention if you need TP for certain moves...well you have to build TP somehow.

That's why the TP bar has suddenly become uber important, and thats how developer should be thinking. Synergetic ideals that work across classes and theories.

You can go active without targeting anything today. You can go active with something targeted and not actually engage. Why on earth would they take that away and have going active suddenly turn into flailing about with your lance. Attacking should still be a deliberate action to engage the targeted enemy.

Yes - a mage might need TP for certain moves. But not all builds will need TP. It's easy to build a healer/buffer that never uses TP and only uses MP.

It's just completely unnecessary to link active to auto-attack. Auto-attack my require that you be active - but being active should not require that you be auto-attacking.

...and who are the guys in behest running around throwing cures the whole time....oh....

If you watch the beginning of the video you can see that he goes active while he is still a bit of a distance away from the goblin and there is no attacking animation, or message that he is too far way to hit. I guess the unanswered question is, once he got close - did he have to hit a button again to start attacking, or did it just happen when he was in range...?

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Originally Posted by Naylia

You can go active without targeting anything today. You can go active with something targeted and not actually engage. Why on earth would they take that away and have going active suddenly turn into flailing about with your lance. Attacking should still be a deliberate action to engage the targeted enemy.

Yes - a mage might need TP for certain moves. But not all builds will need TP. It's easy to build a healer/buffer that never uses TP and only uses MP.

It's just completely unnecessary to link active to auto-attack. Auto-attack my require that you be active - but being active should not require that you be auto-attacking.

...and who are the guys in behest running around throwing cures the whole time....oh....

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Not really...considering a lot of skills are changed, we'll have to see what skills are changed for DoM. As I said there is no healer class, we're all redmages in DoM. You haven't see it before, because there was no auto attack, healers didn't have time to press 1 4 111 4 111 5. now it's 445.

And we have line of sight, Unless you're going to be AoE healing (and since hate equations and stuff are going to get changed) you will need to be target locking...and sub targeting. It's better to be locking on to the enemy then to a randomly aimed tree shrub.

Healers don't melee in FF11 because they do crap damage(it's considered physical damage) as oppose to giving monsters TP. FF14, DoM do magical damage...magical..i.e. significant damage, as well as ranged magic damage.

Again we're all redmages in the end. you'll be magic missle-ing. By definition a healer class wouldn't have much offensive power...DoM's have crap loads of it.

Nothing you said explained why auto-attack wouldn't require hitting a button to start.

And I'm not a Redmage until they give me a freakin' sword. Stupid twig....

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Originally Posted by Naylia

And I'm not a Redmage until they give me a freakin' sword. Stupid twig....

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Pointless to have a sword when your twig is giving your an overwhelming advantage.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Pointless to have a sword when your twig is giving your an overwhelming advantage.

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Well it will once it's stats mean something...and that really just demonstrates the need for cool, magic swords of something or other.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

Well it will once it's stats mean something...and that really just demonstrates the need for cool, magic swords of something or other.

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Well it does feel cooler then throwing magic missiles...though very few mages would like to be in melee combat that often, even though they have a crap load of those skills anyway.

Depends if they change the mp system. Why even use half out skills if we sit on butloads of MP.

With only 2 DoM class, that twig's all we need. Why have a physical stat if every attack is built in magical properties.

If they ever expand the DoM class, we can consider having physical attributes.

Again DoM are just redmages with optional subjobs right now. The job system and rebalancing needs to come in to play like mages.

Unless magic missiles are made so weak that it's not worth it to AA an enemy...you're going to AA an enemy. There's minimal downside to it.

In difficult content (hopefully coming), wouldn't anything you could do to reduce hate/enmity be ideal? Or at least potential strategy? You could still target lock and subtarget without auto-attacking. It seems like an unnecessary restriction and when jobs come along in 1.19 or 1.20 it'd seem odd to have a White Mage constantly throwing magic missles.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

In difficult content (hopefully coming), wouldn't anything you could do to reduce hate/enmity be ideal? Or at least potential strategy? You could still target lock and subtarget without auto-attacking. It seems like an unnecessary restriction and when jobs come along in 1.19 or 1.20 it'd seem odd to have a White Mage constantly throwing magic missles.

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Not unless it starts getting tricky like "hate reset throat stab" etc. You don't need to be at zero hate, you never want to be at zero hate anyway, it implies you suck.

Your hate should be under the tanks, barring hate spikes. Otherwise you're dragging the pt down.

And in case you didn't notice, DoMs have hate diminishing skills....grrr...

Yes well...whitemages having magic missiles and offensive spells is a weird thing in the first place...reason we don't have whitemages yet.

Agree with all of that, but I still think that forcing auto-attack as soon as you go active is just an unneeded restriction.

In what way does forcing a character to start auto-attacking on going active make for better play? It just reduces flexibility.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

Agree with all of that, but I still think that forcing auto-attack as soon as you go active is just an unneeded restriction.

In what way does forcing a character to start auto-attacking on going active make for better play? It just reduces flexibility.

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We have line of sight problems...a reason aoe cure is overly used even with the longer casting time.

I think I'm missing something....what does line of sight have to do with auto-attack?

Also, I'm not saying DoM shouldn't get auto-attack. But that for all disciplines it should take one click after going active to initiate the auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by Naylia

I think I'm missing something....what does line of sight have to do with auto-attack?

Also, I'm not saying DoM shouldn't get auto-attack. But that for all disciplines it should take one click after going active to initiate the auto-attack.

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Target lock monster, subtarget cure player right next to monster.
or
Target lock player, sub target the player on other end, failed cured, grrrrr.

So...that doesn't require the auto-attack kicking in. You can target lock on the monster without attacking is what I'm saying. There's a button specifically for target locking - it doesn't require attacking today. Why should it in the future? I think we might be talking past eachother.

Cure Buddy without Attacking:
Target mob -> Press C (or Target Lock button on Gpad) -> Select Cure -> sub-target teammate

vs

Auto-attack:
Target mob -> Press C (or Target Lock button on Gpad) -> Hit Enter -> Begins auto-attacking -> Select Spell -> sub-target

I don't think the two are exclusive. I think you should be able to do both.

I also indeed want to choose when I take my weapon out if I want to trigger the auto-attack or not. I guess we will have to see and give feedback afterwards. Afterall, aren't we here to enjoy the game nad trying to help improving it with our feedback? ^^

Hopefully matsui's new system makes it so that mages would never want to auto attack.
They could just add close-range TP hits where you autoattack with the canes and scepters.
I think they should just get rid of tp-based attacks for mages and move them all to mp. Levinbolt II would be a spell then.