Please take Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium off the roulette.

Today I completed the storyline in FFXIV ARR. Yep, that's right. I 'beat the game'. This should have been an epic experience for me.

Instead, I made the following realization. Either I could enjoy the victory, and follow the cutscenes as the game intended, or I could participate in the boss fights. I could not do both.

So what did I do? I played through the cutscenes and explored, finding the correct switches for the lifts, activating my armour, and tried to enjoy the game as it was intended. The result? I missed every boss fight and angered the other 7 people in the group.

There's nothing wrong with adventurers being brought together by a shared goal. Despite the facerolling loot pinata that WoW has become, a very successful game did exist before dungeon finders and insta-teleports.

The least you can do is take the final quest line off the roulette, so that the people who play it together are those sharing the experience for the first time and those willing to help.

Actually my recommendation is to not allow people that has not completed that part of the story line to join the DR. To me DR is for people that want to beat the content without the hiccups of watching the CS and get them darn tomes and commendations.

I'd be fine with that too. Anything that separates these two groups is fine.

Imagine this. You defeat Ultima for the first time, and the plot suggests there might be more to come. Suddenly in the middle of the monologue the Commendation window pops up on the lower right hand side of the screen.

/facepalm.

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Originally Posted by Glyx

Today I completed the storyline in FFXIV ARR. Yep, that's right. I 'beat the game'. This should have been an epic experience for me.

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there's more storyline elsewhere.

To be honest, while I do understand the concerns of both sides, DF players want to finish the dungeon fast because they've been in it so often and new players just want to enjoy the finale of their storyline, I do believe that players finishing the storyline should attempt to use the Party Finder feature implemented in 2.1 which does allow you to find like-minded people. While its unfortunate for the newer or returning players getting into Preatorium for the first time, the fact is that those people are a not only a minority but will also only encounter this issue once, thus I don't think it would be wise for SE to modify the Roulette's range of content for that inconvenience, frustrating as it may be.

Btw, this thread would have much more visibility to the correct "crowd" were it in the Feedback Sub-forums rather than "Lore".

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Originally Posted by Glyx

Please take Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium off the roulette.

Either I could enjoy the victory, and follow the cutscenes as the game intended, or I could participate in the boss fights. I could not do both.

So what did I do? I played through the cutscenes and explored, finding the correct switches for the lifts, activating my armour, and tried to enjoy the game as it was intended. The result? I missed every boss fight and angered the other 7 people in the group.

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This was also the case before Duty Roulette. And it was even worse then compared to now, since speed runs of those two dungeons were the way to farm tomes of philosophy. I find people to be a lot more patient than they were before now that philosophy tomes are so easy to come by, since people are needing them much less than before and duty roulette gives a whopping 300 of them. I think it strikes a good balance between the pushiness of old speed runs and the time when there were more than an hour long queues for a dungeon no one ran anymore.

It's sad, but in my FC, we will make parties for people who are still going through the story for this very reason. We give them the opportunity to experience it as intended. But I kind of agree that You probably shouldn't go through story dungeons the first time through duty roulette. People are speed running them for the bonuses.

This might have a very simple solution then that would also force people to use a very under-utilized feature.

"Use the party finder to enter the Praetorium"

Problem solved.

No way, I want my 300 Philos.

I've only done one group where we legitimately had one new person. I tend to do whatever the majority of the group wants to do. In this specific case we let the person that needed it watch his cutscenes but the group decided to leave him behind on a couple of fights. (Gaius and Lahabrea) We waited on him for the Ultima Weapon fights though as they were pretty much the climax of the story.

You can watch all of the cutscenes in your inn room. Problem solved.

This again? Christ this game is full of jerks at times.

If you're going to queue for Duty Roulette for the two story quests you should expect people to be watching the stories. These are even marked as Story in the Roulette. I'm going to make a point to go to these as a tank when I have time and purposefully watch each and every cutscene just so that the people who haven't done the events yet can watch them and not be completely blocked out of the fights as well.

Claiming "watch them in your inn room" is not a legit suggestion after you've completely reamed someone's immersion in what are some spectacular scenes leading up to just as spectacular fights.

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Originally Posted by Caraway

This again? Christ this game is full of jerks at times.

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Claiming "watch them in your inn room" is not a legit suggestion after you've completely reamed someone's immersion in what are some spectacular scenes leading up to just as spectacular fights.

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Yeah, getting tired of it too. So many posts seem to want the bonus without the parts the bonus is there for.

Hmmm....

From what I read, I assume OP entered DF with players that were using roulette. I've been asking around and roulette players do end up with regular DF parties most of the time.

So yes, at one point, I agree that duty roulette players should not join the regular Duty Finder, at least for main story type.

Other than that, roulette is a great way to farm allagan quicker. But at least I do wait for others even though I skipped CS all the time. :)

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

You can watch all of the cutscenes in your inn room. Problem solved.

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There's a difference between watching the cutscenes at the intended point and watching cutscenes after it's all over

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

There's a difference between watching the cutscenes at the intended point and watching cutscenes after it's all over

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There is also the fact that not all of the CS are available at the Inn. I skipped several during the Ultima fight to keep up with the douches running for their tomes. When I went to watch them in the inn room a few of the ones that are in between the fights are missing.

I hit this one today, and yes I came in via the Duty Finder. CM was just full of people speed running and I ended up skipping everything, let alone not really having a clue what was going on..

Luckily, the Praetoreum run was mostly a FC party and were a magnificent bunch to run with.

I guess it's a tough one for the devs. Everyone is only ever going to hit this issue once, and only out of those, the ones that care about the storyline are going to be affected, but I would have appreciated the chance to experience it the way it was intended.

Sounds like all we can do for now is get the word out to people who are really interested in the story experience - you must, must, form your own party of like-minded people, don't use the DF.

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

Sounds like all we can do for now is get the word out to people who are really interested in the story experience - you must, must, form your own party of like-minded people, don't use the DF.

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Why must one do that? How about, if everyone who goes into the Roulette for the Story quests you make a point of watching the cutscenes whether you've seen them or not. If enough people do that it will inconvenience the douche-runners enough to either give up the Roulette or accept the fact that these are story quests for story completion and they're only being given those 200 tomes as a "Thank you" for helping people, not for bullying them through it.

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Originally Posted by ShiekSmythe

There is also the fact that not all of the CS are available at the Inn. I skipped several during the Ultima fight to keep up with the douches running for their tomes. When I went to watch them in the inn room a few of the ones that are in between the fights are missing.

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Did you change the Tab on the CS book to Duty? If not that's where your missing cutscenes are~

Why is this in the Lore forum?

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Originally Posted by Nialle

Why is this in the Lore forum?

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I imagine because the OP thought it was relevant to enjoyment of the story of the game. Though I agree with others, this belongs better in Feedback.

Do u enjoy waiting hours and hours to do story? If yes then ur wish can be granted

Actually, I really enjoy helping people do the main story dungeons as part of roulette, and I like to watch the cut-scenes over as well!

I think the key is, if you want to use duty finder for them, explain to people when you start that this is your first time, and you really want to see the cut-scenes *and* participate in the boss fights, and ask if they can wait for you to do that. If they're like, no way, this is a SPEED RUN!, then ask them to kick you so you can queue again without penalty.

Or, as people suggested, maybe make a Party Finder for it, and check the box that says that you're going to be watching cut-scenes. Heck, I want to do that just so I can go through Prae again and have the fun of helping people through it, and watching the story unfold. (Watching cut-scenes in my room in the inn just isn't the same, imho)

But maybe making this thread in the "Feedback" forum would be better.

First: wrong section.

Second: running it when it was the way to farm tomes was sure much worse. Running it when it was neither the way to farm tomes or in roulette? Ever tried that? I did. We had to wait for weeks to be able to make a premade from guild to help some people, because DF just wasn't a chance. Cause guess what? If people is not farming tomes, sure has no business running a story dungeon after having finished story himself and counting it drops absolutely no loot.
So my question is: would you rather not be able to run the dungeon at all then having to skip cinematics and stuff? The alternative at that point would be again party finder. Sweet new feature. I think if you don't want rushy people that's your only choice, cause good luck having someone who cares about story farming DF.
Myself, when I completed it, back when it was farmed/SRed, not to be harrassed had to spend hours shouting in Mor Dhona to be able to find a group of people patient enough to run with 2 first timers in the group. Because if you entered DF as first timer, people seeing the writing would drop right away. So I'd say roulette for those places is a bless. As for cinematics? In those runs I was authorized to watch them. I ended up skipping them regardless since the dungeons themselves are planned so that your group gets attacked while you're in them. And, at least for me, the story is more enjoyable when yu know you're not making other 7 people wait/fight without you while you're watching it.

Honestly, I think it's kind of rude to expect a full party of strangers to wait on you just because you want to watch the cutscenes, especially when you can watch pretty much all of them back at the inn. The only ones that don't seem available in the inn are the very last cutscenes after the final fight in Praetorium, or at least I have yet to find them. Most people nowadays are running through CM and Prae for the tomes and daily roulette, and those people want to speedrun to lessen the time it takes to get those tomes. Anyone who's planning to go in for their story quests and wanting to watch the cutscenes just need to be aware of that.

The previous suggestion of letting the party know you're new to the run and want to watch the cutscenes, and asking if they can wait, is a good idea. If they can, good everyone's happy. If they can't, they can kick you if you ask and you can just look for other people who want to watch the story too or hope you have better luck with the next group.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

Honestly, I think it's kind of rude to expect a full party of strangers to wait on you just because you want to watch the cutscenes, especially when you can watch pretty much all of them back at the inn. . .

The previous suggestion of letting the party know you're new to the run and want to watch the cutscenes, and asking if they can wait, is a good idea. If they can, good everyone's happy. If they can't, they can kick you if you ask and you can just look for other people who want to watch the story too or hope you have better luck with the next group.

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So, in this story-focused game, the default should be to not actually watch the story as it unfolds and while you're in the dungeon doing the events you're watching; but instead to watch all these scenes that wrap up the story up to that point from the safety of your inn room. Just making sure I have this right. Wouldn't want to enjoy my storyline or anything.

How about if you hate watching story cutscenes and have no patience for new people going thru the content you don't queue for Main Scenario Roulette (whose entire purpose is to get folks running these dungeons to help new people).

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Originally Posted by Nialle

How about if you hate watching story cutscenes and have no patience for new people going thru the content you don't queue for Main Scenario Roulette (whose entire purpose is to get folks running these dungeons to help new people).

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Yes it's not like people use that for their daily bonus to Philo tomes or anything.

Not at all.

Sorry, but regardless of how a single person wants to experience things, other people are not obligated to wait up for you to finish. I love experiencing the story in this game, I'm a lore-nut in any game that has decent lore/story to it, but even I knew when I first ran it that people were not going to and shouldn't have to wait up for me to watch the large amount of cutscenes in these last two dungeons. And I first ran these with half of the group being from my own FC, who had even stated they didn't mind if I watched them.

So the desire to maximise Philo tomes (like they're hard to get or something) trumps new people's desire to experience the story the way it was meant to be presented the first time thru, but they're the ones being 'selfish'? Whatever. I suppose it depends on your point of view, but I don't think your desire for some extra Philo is somehow superior to other people's desire to see their story the first time uninterrupted.

My opinion is that newcomers should get enough FC folks and friends to go with them in these groups to stack the group in their favor at least, so any inconsiderate folks they get matched with will be forced to wait regardless. If they go in alone they'll have to grin and bear it, because obviously despite the fact that the Main Scenario Roulette is supposed to be to help THEM, some folks see it the other way around.

I just hope SE realizes that despite their best intentions they will need to integrate cutscenes into dungeons differently in the future -- either by not allowing bosses to be pulled at all if anyone is new and watching cutscenes, or only putting scenes at the beginning/end (or not showing them at all if everyone has been through before). There are incompatible play styles meeting up over this issue and neither side sees the other as having a legitimate complaint, so I don't think this can be solved purely by adding extra Roulette rewards to story dungeons.

I have noticed this too. So many players are using it just to get bonus tomes and really have no care at all if there are new people in the group. First off DFR is to be used to help people finish the game and as a reward you get bonus tomes. How do people not understand this is the intended function of DFR. If you want a speed run use Party Finder! It is not the other way around. My first time through watching the story didn't take that long and for a DF group we didn't wipe once because the dungeon is easy even if you only have ilvl 55. I think we had over an hour on the clock still. So give me a break on needing to skip the cuts.

I've had my WHM at 50 for quite a while now, and I'm still waiting after weeks for most of my FC to get on so I can run CM for my first time as it was intended. Until then, I'm just going to have to live with not being able to do CT, King Moggle Mog, Hildebrant, HM primal fights or getting relics.

Luckily I'm a patient person. My first priority when playing a game for entertainment is to enjoy it, otherwise there's no reason in playing it in the first place.

wanna a find a party of like minded players? thats what PARTY FINDER is for. its also becoming quiet popular. It's still underutilized and I highly recommend people use it for everything.

and I mean this in the nicest way. Honestly i don't mind waiting for new players to watch CS's, be it DR or DF or whatever. I really don't care I'm patient. Most people aren't, and complaining about it doesn't help.
If your lucky to be in a group where everyone is nice enough to wait, kudos to you, but the chances of that is unlikely and going against the grain helps no one.

I'll be honest. While I like having both of them on the roulette, I also agree that it's really annoying for people completing it for the first time. It genuinely irks me that a lot of players will rush through the content like a bad bull when there are clear newcomers to the dungeon in the group. Would it kill these people to take a bit more time and let the newcomers enjoy their run?

This was most noticeable on a recent run when we had 2 players who had not yet completed Praetorium. Of all the dungeons to miss, doing so on the ultimate battle just feels like robbing the players of their well-deserved win. Despite my protestations, we still had players rushing ahead.

The only thing I can honestly suggest is that those running story mode for the first time do so with a friendly group they know.

If I may add something, I noticed that roulette in general makes levelling experience through dungeons worse. When I levelled with my main, it was all low level people fighting their way the same, learning their class, learning the mechanics, and it was enjoyable. Sure, there also was the factor of game just launched and everybody being new that helped, but that's another thing. Fact is, a high level running a dungeon for roulette, only does it for the reward, and so tries to hurry the run, gets impatient and everything, not letting someone who's effectively attuned to that level enjoy it as it should be. I find it quite frustrating.
So I don't think the problem is for CM and PT only, but for any dungeon you have roulette people in. Just, the other dungeons had faseable queues alrady without it.

I fully agree with the first post. I thought Duty Roulette was there to help lower level players advance the story. The missions specifically point out to you to use the duty finder to advance the story. Now we're getting overgeared jerks steamrolling everything instead, with the first timers barely getting a chance to touch anything before it's all over. Castrum and Praetorium were the last two dungeons I had to do when 2.1 came, and my experience with them was so discouraging that I haven't logged in ever since the credits rolled.

My pointed out that adding several minutes long skippable cutscenes that might lock others out of content to a dungeon is atrocious dungeon design though. I wholly agree with this. Guild Wars did cutscenes right back in the day: everyone watches cutscenes unless everyone clicks to skip the cutscene. I know it's a bold statement and people would definitely whine if this was implemented, but at least first timers wouldn't be forced to skip the story as intended this way.

As I said in another thread, I don't understand why those people are doing storyline based content unless it is to help other people progress through the story.

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Originally Posted by Moontide

Guild Wars did it right back in the day: everyone watches cutscenes unless everyone clicks to skip the cutscene.

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Oh yes yes yes. And I never skipped cutscenes there. Instead, in here I do because it makes me antsy knowing people are waiting out of it and thus I end up not enjoying it at all, I enjoy it more at the inn. Especially not knowing what the hell people is doing out of it, maybe fighting and wiping. Of course if everybody is forced to stay in it it's another story, there's no risk.

Oh i agree, if I see a new person I slow down to make sure they get the full enjoyment of the run, and since i usually que for the low level stuff with my tank or healer. well they are going to have to wait on me. For things like Pre and CM ill do what i can to let the new players get it. While going through CM for the first time i had one jerk tank go "SKIP!" I intended to just cause id rather be nice till the other tank pipped up that they should let the new players enjoy it as its intended. Made my day.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

You can watch all of the cutscenes in your inn room. Problem solved.

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Um... what? lol why? they are story mode dungeons meaning they should be enjoyed with the cut scenes there as it was intended to be. IF you want to skip then fine by me but im not about to take someone elses experience away from them that i got to receive. I 100% believe that this was meant to be enjoying the story and NOT to just run t get a few extra tomes each day.

Not sorry to ruin your speed runs~
See my name out there while doing a DF and its your first time just pipe up and say so and ill be sure to slow down to let you enjoy the story!

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Originally Posted by Shirai

As I said in another thread, I don't understand why those people are doing storyline based content unless it is to help other people progress through the story.

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Because 300 tomestones for very little work and time is a great deal for many people. It's not about doing storyline content, it's about making the most out of any given amount of time. That is something that is rampant in many games and not just this one. People used to play games for entertainment and fun, but these days (whilst it may be "fun" for them) its about getting the things fast and now. It's becoming more and more like a gambling addiction/habit with regards to the desire to be rewarded for pressing buttons.

I'd hope that the the reasoning behind offering such a large reward is to encourage end-game players to help newer/first timers through their content. Of course, this backfires because the majority of the (mostly) western playerbase (I lack the experience of playing with our Eastern players to simply include them too) are a bunch of self-entitled whiners who care only for their own self-aggrandisement and nothing for their fellow players. If they did, you won't get so many elitist *include your own words of choice* players making stupid demands on everyone else, but not themselves.

It's sad. Very sad.

Unfortunately, OP, the only sure way around this is to find yourself a good group of players you can (or may already) call friends, and do this content with them. You'll have much more fun that way, I think.

Regardless of how a single person wants to experience the game, it's still rude to expect people to wait up on you. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting around for people, I've been in parties with plenty of people who mention they do their daily before going to work or school or what have you, and thus want to get it done fast. And this is fine. You just need to expect speedruns now. It's very easy to either use party finder to find people who want to experience the story within the dungeon, or to just state to a DR/DF party that it's your first time and you want to watch the cutscenes, and see if they'll let you or not.

Expecting a group of strangers to wait up on you if you don't say anything about it is extremely rude, as they literally have no obligation to. At the very least, letting people know your intentions for the run helps to know if you should find a new party or will be okay with the one you're currently in. It isn't that hard.