PvP is GREAT - My Perspective

First of all, I am not a hardcore PvPer. I have played arena in WoW for 2 seasons (only got up to 1800 rating) and done some Rift and SWTOR PvP. I do PvP in FF14 by myself as a Scholar (not even my main class). The only time I go in as a premade is with a random warrior who I discovered was from my server after a random solo queue match.

At the start of 2.1 I was complaining to guildies about how I could never get a cast off and couldn't keep anyone up besides the 6 lustrates that I get at the start. I checked the official forums and the FF14 sub-reddit on an hourly basis in the hope that someone would post up some advice or tips about PvP but all I ever saw was complaint after complaint after complaint.

My initial record was 15 wins out of 50 games played. However I stuck with it and now I am 186 out of 260 (135 wins out of 172 this week). I know this is not spectacular but it certainly shows that it is not one-sided, especially since I am solo-queue and not using a FotM class/comp. The common complaints that everyone seems to be crying about all have a way around them. I will address them with my perspective:

- Jump/Bunny hop
I make an effort to never jump/bunny hop in the arena because I think it is a cheap tactic however I have gone up against healers who have done this and we have yet to lose a game against one. While I agree this should be "fixed", it is merely a quality of life change. A jumping healer cannot heal. Have a DPS go on his teammate and wait until he stops to heal, stun him and do your damage then. I've been in a game where the healer was the last guy left and he just ran around jumping. Eventually our tank's cds came back and we stunned and killed him.

- BLM/SMN
I agree BLM and SMN are strong right now. But I see non-BLM/SMN players complaining that BLM and SMNs are op. And I see BLM/SMN players complaining that they can't cast. I have gone up against many BLM/SMN comps and have won more matches than lost. This is playing with just a WAR and 2 random DPS (most of which are not pvp geared). It is a strong comp at the moment but there are ways around their sleep and rez. One tactic I've noticed a DPS on my team used is: if you're being focussed, purify the dots and debuffs early. That removes a big portion of the SMN damage. I will cover sleep further down. In addition, from all the games I've played, I've noticed that BLM/SMN are far from the most played class. I see much more DRG and MNK than BLM/SMN. And I've seen high damage from every class, often higher than BLM/SMN damage.

- Inability to cast due to interruption
At first constant interruptions were a pain in the ass (my main rage-inducing factor when I started PvP) but I've come to realise it really is just a quality of life change. If SE were to remove this, it'd just make healing and casting too easy. I've found that as I played more and adjusted, I can get a cast off in many ways: by running around a corner and getting a quick cast off, surecast, swiftcast, equanimity and in between attacks (there is a delay) if there is just one person on me. This is useable by all casters if I read the tooltips correctly. I have also seen BLMs and SMNs on the forums say that there are instant spells you can cast while on the run anyway (I don't play BLM so can't say much there)

- Class diversity
While I like the idea of being able to play with whatever comp you want, again it is just a quality of life factor. I understand SE's decision in this aspect. It guarantees that every class can be played. If any comp could be selected, tanks would be neglected and players who chose a tank class as their main would not be able to PvP. You might not like the team comp, but the other team has to play with the same basic team comp too.

- Gearing curve
While not a major concern, I have seen posts complaining about the costs of PvP GEAR (I agree the respec cost is too high). I personally like to work for my gear. It makes getting a piece feel so much more rewarding. And it really is just to drag out the content until the next patch. I'm sure within a few months the cost of pieces will be reduced so newer players won't be disadvantaged. For now though, while everyone has started on equal grounds, I support the high gear costs.

- Premades
I have never played with a BLM/SMN premade but I have played against many. With the correct tactic and teamwork, it is not impossible to win against. With just a warrior partner I have beaten many 3 man premades thrown at us. However I have to admit it is unfair. There is really no way around it that I can see though. You can't make 3-man premades join their own queue. Where would the last person come from? And it would make the current queue times longer. In my opinion, after games just keep an eye out for people from the same server and group up with them. Make friends and play with them.

- Insta-rez
Again, another quality of life factor. Annoyed that the other team's healer is rezzing? Hey, your healer can do it too! The rezzed person has a hp debuff (unless Divine Breath was used) and very little hp. There are many ways you can deal with this, pressure the heals so they can't top the rezzed person up, hard switch to rezzed person and explode them, miasma. I've had games where other healer rezzed 3 times (swiftcast, divine breath, swiftcast) yet we still prevailed. Just another thing to get used to and have tactics around.

- Sleep
I have to admit, at first I thought this was op. But after playing some games, it really isn't that bad. I have lost against teams where the BLM just stands back and sleeps EVERYONE except the focus target. It is annoying. VERY annoying. But there are ways around it. As a healer I make sure I don't stack with my team so that we can't get aoe-sleeped. I also put their WHM/BLM on focus so I can see when they're casting sleep and los it. As long as the heals can avoid sleep, they can cleanse it off their teammates. I can even cleanse with people on me, the cast is that quick. Again it is just one of those quality of life things. I wouldn't mind it being reduced to 8/6/4 seconds though but I won't cry if it remains unchanged.

- PvE gear
I started off PvP with mostly Darklight, 2 pieces of AK gear and relic weapon. Now I have most pieces of the Warwolf set. While I agree people should not go into the arena with fresh 50 gear on (I have lost many a game with a 2.9k hp DPS with AF1), at this early stage I don't think it is game-changing to have to have ilvl 55 gear on instead of a mix of Darklight and ilvl90 gear. Personally I'd rather heal a 4k hp Darklight player than a 2.9k hp full ilvl55 player who is going to get blown up quickly anyway. Let people play a bit and get points for a few pieces before demanding that they have to be in full pvp gear, PvP is still young.

Overall, I believe Square Enix has done a wonderful initial job with PvP. Despite what people have been saying, every class is represented well in the arena. Every class has their ups and their downs. If someone who has never excelled at PvP can rack up some wins, I'm sure everyone can with enough games played to get accustomed to the FF14 PvP system.

At the end of the day, you win some, you lose some.

Instant Ress is not annoying. What is annoying is going against a SCH SMN SMN team. Your opponents are literally Zombies! And you have to run around doing Whack-a-Summoner seriously I had a game where I scored 8 kills. And the others had like 5.

I agree with most of your points except the PvP gear remark. The beginners gear set for PvP is craftable and buyable with gil, in my server a full set goes for 100k that´s not too much to ask. The morale stat is OP in PVP and shouldn't be ignored. I play marauder and spec my char for DPS wearing a full set of PvP i55 gear, using DPS PvP jewelry and cross-classing all the DPS skills that I can. And I tell you it makes a whole lot of difference than wearing my average ilvl 85 PvE gear.

Thank you for this post. I hope you brought a flame suit. We need more experienced and logical players, such as yourself, to be engaging these conversations in the forums.

The only point I have concern over is that of the SMN and punch-interrupts. I would like to see SMN have, at the very least, significantly reduced healing. Some of them are just impossible to kill with even 2 DPS on them, especially if they are paired up with a SCH. Additionally, I only have tried healing on my WHM, and I think the interrupts at the lower level are ridiculous. Perhaps a push-back system to extend casting time, with skill interrupts. But as it stands, I remember trying to get one spell off, and the ten times I tried, everything was interrupted. I think interrupts should require as much effort as healing does. But, then I noticed at the higher brackets it seems to balance out a little more, so I am not going to worry about this too much.

I agree with almost all of your sentiments. Hope to see you in the den!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jyoeru

I would like to see SMN have, at the very least, significantly reduced healing. Some of them are just impossible to kill with even 2 DPS on them, especially if they are paired up with a SCH.

---

As if that has sth to do with the SMN lool. They have a good healer then cuz SMN are glasscanons. You dont have any Def cooldown like other classes so get real pls

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KairaZ

As if that has sth to do with the SMN lool. They have a good healer then cuz SMN are glasscanons. You dont have any Def cooldown like other classes so get real pls

---

Oh, okay. Great counterpoint. Thanks for your contribution!

after this post, i feel that my 75% win rate out of 300+ games q'ing solo ain't that bad after all ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chopsmash

*SNIP*

---

"PvP is GREAT" -Arcanist Lv 50

In regards to your analysis:

1. Jump is more abusive on SMN than SCH/WHM because you can still do high damage and apply healing debuff/slow while melee will miss >75% of their attacks.

2. Again, insta-res is a SMN problem not a SCH/WHM problem. Each SMN adds an extra instant-res on a 1 minute cooldown.

Jumping Zombie comps are simply broken.

if you're bad they are broken

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Regis

if you're bad they are broken

---

Hitting spacebar takes skill right?

SMN can't really do "high damage" while jumping around like rabbits. The only way a SMN is actually going to kill you is if you let them put 3 dots on you. 2 of them can't be done while jumping

theres not much letting when you do a single regular cast of 2seconds then place the instant dot you have and finally swiftcast the last dot you need... now you can fester to your hearts content..

But then we can't do the "OP" swiftcast raise for a whole minute and thus the hypothetical situations are meaningless

A dragoon could hypothetically see me casting miasma or bioII also and spineshatter on me to stun/interrupt me then kick my ass too

If you enjoy PVP on this forum you will be flamed. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

I first came here thinking I'd find quality discussions about PVP tactics, comp setups, strategies etc.... instead 99.9999% of the threads are WHINE threads. "Nerf this, Nerf that, make gear normalized, ban premades, make it so I can win" etc.. etc.... I will admit it's a bit amusing watching these people squirm.


Misery loves company.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chopsmash

- BLM/SMN
I agree BLM and SMN are strong right now. But I see non-BLM/SMN players complaining that BLM and SMNs are op. And I see BLM/SMN players complaining that they can't cast. I have gone up against many BLM/SMN comps and have won more matches than lost. This is playing with just a WAR and 2 random DPS (most of which are not pvp geared). It is a strong comp at the moment but there are ways around their sleep and rez..

---

says the summoner end of story if your a summoner you have no place talking about how smn is balanced

blm sleep is op and need a turbo nerf

melee need slows and animation lockout is insanly long they take too long to go off and u biff at least half of your animations cuz of lag

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seraph1m

says the summoner end of story if your a summoner you have no place talking about how smn is balanced

blm sleep is op and need a turbo nerf

melee need slows and animation lockout is insanly long they take too long to go off and u biff at least half of your animations cuz of lag

---

These kind are probably my favorite x037x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Regis

These kind are probably my favorite x037x

---

So, people who state logical objective facts are your favorites?......gotchya.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chopsmash

- Inability to cast due to interruption
At first constant interruptions were a pain in the ass (my main rage-inducing factor when I started PvP) but I've come to realise it really is just a quality of life change. If SE were to remove this, it'd just make healing and casting too easy. I've found that as I played more and adjusted, I can get a cast off in many ways: by running around a corner and getting a quick cast off, surecast, swiftcast, equanimity and in between attacks (there is a delay) if there is just one person on me.

---

I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to point out that neither Surecast nor Equanimity do what their tooltips say as both can be interrupted by stuns and silences. An adept Warrior will wait until you pop either of those, then Brutal Swing you for a 5 sec stun which renders the spell useless. The only thing I would change about this system for casters is make Equanimity COMPLETELY immune to all interrupts. Surecast can help with white damage and regular attacks but the PVP-specific ability should stop stuns as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shake0615

I agree with most of what you said, but I would like to point out that neither Surecast nor Equanimity do what their tooltips say as both can be interrupted by stuns and silences. An adept Warrior will wait until you pop either of those, then Brutal Swing you for a 5 sec stun which renders the spell useless. The only thing I would change about this system for casters is make Equanimity COMPLETELY immune to all interrupts. Surecast can help with white damage and regular attacks but the PVP-specific ability should stop stuns as well.

---

Surecast seems not working as intended, but equanimity is is fine.
To demand an 20s buff where you can cast free and cant be stunned and silenced is a bit ridiculous, cause that means you are literally CC immun for 20s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midara

Surecast seems not working as intended, but equanimity is is fine.
To demand an 20s buff where you can cast free and cant be stunned and silenced is a bit ridiculous, cause that means you are literally CC immun for 20s.

---

Honestly, I don't care which one they fix as long as there is one spell that lets us avoid hard interrupts like Brutal Swing or Shield Bash. When literally EVERY bit of incoming damage interrupts our spell casting we should be able to rely on at least ONE spell to give us a way to Cure effectively. But you are right that 20 secs would be outrageously long. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chopsmash

- Jump/Bunny hop
I make an effort to never jump/bunny hop in the arena because I think it is a cheap tactic however I have gone up against healers who have done this and we have yet to lose a game against one. While I agree this should be "fixed", it is merely a quality of life change. A jumping healer cannot heal. Have a DPS go on his teammate and wait until he stops to heal, stun him and do your damage then. I've been in a game where the healer was the last guy left and he just ran around jumping. Eventually our tank's cds came back and we stunned and killed him.

---

How do you cast when running away if you dont jump & cast? You need to face you target to cast most spells. Jumping and casting mid air allows you to turn cast and continue in the same direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lodiodrive

How do you cast when running away if you dont jump & cast? You need to face you target to cast most spells. Jumping and casting mid air allows you to turn cast and continue in the same direction.

---

I just tested it out, you can use the legacy movement with auto-face target to do that, you turn around while use your instant and you are not slower than jumping, so you dont need to jump to kite perfectly.