PS1 game that has better battle graphics than FFXIV

Hiromichi Tanaka, what went wrong. And I don't ask that rhetorically. I'd really, truly like to know.

I've recently started playing Chrono Cross, also produced by Tanaka, and wanted to share some of the battle effects from it. If nothing else I think this should serve as good material for the team to base the new battle effects on, assuming they are in fact working on them.

Fireball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LJK3T3abNk&t=4m56s

Magmabomb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LJK3T3abNk&t=1m52s

Uplift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TABZC5TV7ro&t=1m10s

Air and Water attacks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8SdHoQHpvg&t=3m25s

And just for fun FF7 battle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqddi...eature=related

What the hell happened in between these PS1 games and FFXIV. I don't really know, but for now, I'll be on the PS1.

Spells in FFXIV are basically slightly heterogeneous blobs with a different hue per element.

Not that good graphics are a bad thing, but I was talking with someone lately and we both agreed that it seemed like the games released nowadays aren't like what they used to be.

And I mean in the sense that they're all graphics and show, and story and content has been sacrificed for it.

In FFXIV's case, they also got lazy with the layout of the graphics.

... i think nobody knows what happened... just sad so far it did... and hopefully we see a huge improvement, HUGE!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shikaree

Not that good graphics are a bad thing, but I was talking with someone lately and we both agreed that it seemed like the games released nowadays aren't like what they used to be.

And I mean in the sense that they're all graphics and show, and story and content has been sacrificed for it.

In FFXIV's case, they also got lazy with the layout of the graphics.

---

Yeah I don't know what happened - SE got particularly lazy and carried away with movie-making. Just because you can make it into an interactive movie doesn't make it a good game. Like Tetsuya Takahashi said, that kind of game making is done. At least back in the day they had to work to convey a story and experience. The battle effects I just don't get though. We get a hetergeneous (I'd say homogenous - lol) 2D overlayed blob de jour instead of actual elements in shapes. Chrono Cross puts FFXIV to shame. I'd be happy if those exact PlayStation graphics were copy and pasted into FFXIV. The graininess of it would look so awesome compared to the 2D blobs.

how they ever thought it was ok to release a game w/ numerous battle skills and have the same generic animations for 90% of them is mind boggling and unacceptable. and how they have taken a step back from ff11 in the spell department is even worse as mentioned all spells are just colored blob effects its farking rediculous. Whats there solution to this travesty? "we increased the size of spells/battle effects" yah that really fixed the problem idiots. at this rate this game is completely doomed i dont see anything; even a miracle saving it now. love how they said they where fixing things people had issues w/ in ff13 also yet they still kept the same moronic battle sytem.

This game is well beyond salvation

I blame the FPS genre, it has taken over everything.

I just finished Chrono Cross a few months ago. It really is an exemplary example of how to make a game (and specifically a battle system). Of course some of the higher level CC spells are a little over the top, what with dimension destroying attacks and such.

It has flashier particle effects, not graphics. Even XI (a 2001 PS2 game) has better particle effects and continues to. In essense the magic/ability effects suffer from what the rest of the game suffered from -- rushed release. A lot of it literally screams placeholder if you've ever done particle design before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennestia

It has flashier particle effects, not graphics. Even XI (a 2001 PS2 game) has better particle effects and continues to. In essense the magic/ability effects suffer from what the rest of the game suffered from -- rushed release. A lot of it literally screams placeholder if you've ever done particle design before.

---

It would be nice if it was all placeholders. My suspicion is that they had to do 2D spell effects because of their tangled up engine. If you look around at Chrono Cross there not just particle effects but polygonal battle effects as well, unifying nicely under the umbrella term graphics.

They where trying to go for a more realistic/believable art style.

Not being a spell user I don't really care how it turned out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gramul

They where trying to go for a more realistic/believable art style.

Not being a spell user I don't really care how it turned out.

---

Well you know, even though you aren't a spell user, with good effects you would still enjoy them as a bystander.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neptune

Well you know, even though you aren't a spell user, with good effects you would still enjoy them as a bystander.

---

Eh. If I've seen an irradient force blast fourth from the bemused grasp of a mender of the vast aether once, I've seen it a thousand times.

I get your point but I'll take Chrone Trigger over Chrono Cross any day though.

They wanted to make things more realistic, but realism = boring. Games are all about extremes, atleast they used to be.

Graphic fixes are probably less of a priority right now in there scheme of things unless that department is somehow ahead of the rest of the teams that they have. It would be nice to have unique looking spell animations, and longer CD timers on damaging spells instead of 9s or whatever so that when you do cast a damage spell, you know it was cast.

I'm sure its on a checklist somewhere, or if it hasn't gotten on one it will eventually.

Also some games at the end of system era's can surpass some of the following generations games. Crono Cross is possibly an example of this (though I can't really remember its graphics too well). My favorite example of one is Valkyrie Profile 2 having better graphics than a slew of earlier PS3 games.

I think its almost to the point where graphics will no longer be the selling point for a game and possibly we can see a return of game play driven games. It won't be too much longer until every game is "on the edge of reality" and then they must turn to focus on other elements, hopefully.

This is sad ... O.o

... didn't they say they were working on this already? @...@

Well have you guys seen these spells yet? I think they look cool to me, but the lesser weaker ones does look like it is lacking in the wow effects.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=napZ8MATXBE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neptune

It would be nice if it was all placeholders. My suspicion is that they had to do 2D spell effects because of their tangled up engine.

---

CrystalTools was used for Final Fantasy XIII as well, you know >.>;

All the major candy spells were already in the game since the start...it's just not everyone knows about them, that's all. About what happened to Tanaka, i think this is what happens when someone from above in SE hastens you to release the game earlier.

But after all its true that every casting move or a skill move is the same animation and the spell animations are very poor, despite that we're R50 already and should have something devastating in our arsenal, not a puffs of spark that are called high level magics

IMO I dont think we can blame everything to laziness, sometimes you look for some classy, fast, smooth and real FX to match with the enviroment of the game you are creating... I agree the spells and animations are boring and all, but I also think Tanaka believed he was doing a great job when he decided he liked them. Tanaka is an irregular producer. He risks a lot in each of his creations, trying to bring more fun to the players, he has major successful tittles (Secret of Mana; best game ever) and some major failures, people has the right to make mistakes and well this is an MMORPG so they can fix mistakes, in case of an regular rpg it will remain in its case cause you got bored doing weird stone missions on Pulse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fensfield

CrystalTools was used for Final Fantasy XIII as well, you know >.>;

---

And the funny thing is, many gamers loved the spell effects from that game, especially the Area of Effect spells.

In FFXIII, the basic lower level spells had mostly bland animations, such as the ones in FFXIV, but when you advanced the crystarium, the effects and spells were dramatically better. The spells in FFXIV are neither better nor more bland than FFXI's spell effects, and nobody complained about them because the graphics for higher level magic was mostly present before the vast majority of players joined the game on the NA/EU side.

My only issue with the effects are for DoW with almost each weapon skill looking the same and each Ancient Magic spell looking extremely dull compared to past Final Fantasies, and both raising spells have no animation. I'm perfectly fine with the way my current spells look. I don't want my Fire I looking like what a Firaja VI would look like. And if you actually look at the spells in those games posted above, the lower level spells are comparable to FFXIV's lower level spells.

Perhaps wait for Tier-3 spells and hope for some minor revisions for the current lackluster DoW weaponskills/AM/raise animations that SE stated they are revamping?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jennestia

It has flashier particle effects, not graphics. Even XI (a 2001 PS2 game) has better particle effects and continues to. In essense the magic/ability effects suffer from what the rest of the game suffered from -- rushed release. A lot of it literally screams placeholder if you've ever done particle design before.

---

Exactly.

The graphics engine can do amazing stuff but they haven't really used it yet.

Also, there is no point in working on enhancing the spell effects until the list of spells is finalized in accordance to changes in the battle, class and job systems.

My guess is that the tweaks (level up fanfare, 'larger' spell effects, etc) we've had over the last few months have been attempts to keep players involved while they work on the big stuff. When the FFXIV team unveils the class/battle/terrain changes and the subsequent tune-ups following them, the game will start looking very nice indeed.

Just have to be patient.

the ancient magic spells are so amazing in FFXIV...................................oh wait...

i really want to play chrono cross now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tirem778

... didn't they say they were working on this already? @...@

---

Yeah, sort of but still.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrien

Well have you guys seen these spells yet? I think they look cool to me, but the lesser weaker ones does look like it is lacking in the wow effects.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=napZ8MATXBE

---

See that is still 2D effects, but that Shock III looks incredible. I could stand for more of those type of effects. That Shock III is more like Protect and Shell. Unfortunately our Tier 1 and 2 effects are too lackluster. Maybe another quick fix would be to move Tier 3 and 4 to Tier 1 and 2 and then redesign Tier 3 and 4 later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ApplePie

And the funny thing is, many gamers loved the spell effects from that game, especially the Area of Effect spells.

In FFXIII, the basic lower level spells had mostly bland animations,
Perhaps wait for Tier-3 spells and hope for some minor revisions for the current lackluster DoW weaponskills/AM/raise animations that SE stated they are revamping?

---

I would take the blandish FFXIII Tier 1 spells over what we have now any day. At least it was an actual projectile. And if nothing else I think they should change Tier 3 to Tier 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doho

i really want to play chrono cross now

---

You should, I'm really enjoying it. I have a PS3 that can play it and it's been really nice for the last few days. The music is incredible too. Yoshinori Mitsuda, one of the great game composers of our time. Playing a great RPG is all about the great music too.

I laughed when I saw Chrono cross thrown up there because for the last few days I have been playing it too and it is a fun game and story... some of dialogue isn't that great though, a bit cheesy, but I can deal with those 1 liners here and there. See S.S Invincible first encounter with the ghosts, lolFargo. Nothing to contribute to the post. Yes AM was great well worth 8 seconds or was it 13? For freeze to go off... think 13 was with a sc, meh.

the battle effects are incredibly underwhelming and uninspired. I was about to shout "blasphemy!" until I read your entire post and realized you meant the effects, not the actual visuals in its entirety.

You're given a next generation platform, and the best you create is what's in this game? If I were a developer and given the opportunity, I'd have crafted beautiful effects. Not to mention they had to increase the size of effects because not only are they relatively boring, but they were small too..

Better graphics in Chrono Cross? What are you smoking dude?

Chrono Cross had more exciting animations, but it certainly isn't 'better' graphics. We all know FFXIV was a rushed mess, but this is more scraping the bottom of the barrel trolling.

*facepalm* There's something to remember about these graphics.

You're dealing with a real-time battle system, not turn-based. Spell effects are not allowed to take their time. Nor can they change viewing angle for your optical pleasure. One of the reasons older games had "fancier" graphics is because they were able to employ cinematic framing techniques. This is not available in our battle system.

You simply can't compare a fixed-positioning, turn-based, cinematographicly designed graphics system to one designed to be played in motion. It's like comparing carrots with kiwi fruits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neptune

I would take the blandish FFXIII Tier 1 spells over what we have now any day. At least it was an actual projectile. And if nothing else I think they should change Tier 3 to Tier 1.

---

That's only because the emphasis of that game was constant casting of the same spell. Not all the spells were projected to the target. I believe only aero and fire were projected. The other spells just went "poof" hit and damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Catapult

*facepalm* There's something to remember about these graphics.

You're dealing with a real-time battle system, not turn-based. Spell effects are not allowed to take their time. Nor can they change viewing angle for your optical pleasure. One of the reasons older games had "fancier" graphics is because they were able to employ cinematic framing techniques. This is not available in our battle system.

You simply can't compare a fixed-positioning, turn-based, cinematographicly designed graphics system to one designed to be played in motion. It's like comparing carrots with kiwi fruits.

---

What a load of bull. The spells the OP linked were all 3D animated and could all have been used in real time battle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by charliesheen

Better graphics in Chrono Cross? What are you smoking dude?

---

What are you smoking?

FF VI had better spell effects

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Randis

FF VI had better spell effects

---

lol ..

I like ffxiv graphics and mine are bad sine most are turned down. The better the graphics in an mmo the laggier the system. There is a graphical differance between a single player game and a mmo. Mostyly due to being able to run the game with a ton of ppl playing. Like most ppl in ffxi had to turn off effects due to lag of spammy black mages. Honestly though. For an mmo ffxiv looks pretty good graphicaly. And this is from playing on all low settings.

It's too bad Chrono Cross was one of the worst SE offerings on the PSX, huh? At least it wasn't as bad as Legend of Mana.

Also lol @ thread

...and the sad thing is: even the "new", unreleased battle effects leaked on youtube look like variations of the same ol' sphere/flash/explosion thing. Chrono Cross Fireballs at least LOOK and MOVE like fireballs ^.^/

P.S.: Did I already mention that the projectile of Spirit Dart is not even visible? Just a whiff with the wand, Whiff-whiff. Looks ridiculous.

Quote:

---

It's too bad Chrono Cross was one of the worst SE offerings on the PSX

---

>.</ Troll.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

The better the graphics in an mmo the laggier the system. There is a graphical differance between a single player game and a mmo. Mostyly due to being able to run the game with a ton of ppl playing.

---

This is what I've been wondering about while reading through this thread.

Aside from more demands on the system, how would it affect battle pacing if the spell animations were more elaborate and longer? It seems like most of the animations in FFXIV are designed to be executed quickly -- about the same length of time as a sword swing or lance thrust -- because of the need to accommodate multiple players in the battle versus just NPCs in your party.

Does anyone have video examples of an MMORPG with what they think are very good spell animations?