DET useless in healers?? ah?

hey..
so i have made my character based on spell speed > DET; but once in a while i run into a gear/weapon that putting 2 materia of speed would waste the second, so i m inclined to put DET on it.
Did so on one piece and run into a friend that told me DET is pointless in healers.. have read forums and google and keep finding a mix, so decided to open this thread in hope i can get a clear discussion about it..
anyway.. the point that i keep running into is..

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Originally Posted by X

determination affects healing done TO you, not BY you. In other words: Determination is worthless on healer, and good on a tank.

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Originally Posted by Y

This is incorrect. Have no idea why people continue to spread this mis-information.

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as you can see ppl reply to that as incorrect but keep running into ppl in forums and in-game that continue to point that out.

ah?? After all if DET would be pointless why so many of my "to-be" allagan gear of healing has so much det on it?? SE did a gear for healing with a stat that is pointless in healers? that just sound wrong.. Also run into a few thread of det vs spell speed whrn i was deciding which stat to go with, why would so many opinions about which one is better if det is pointless??

i understood DET as affecting the healing that i do (per gamerescape definition) no the healing that is done on me. (but eng is not my 1st language)
sorry, running into this at this stage has me quite traumatize.. lol
thx for reading and any reply

"X" is bad. End of story.

X is bad please stop listening to them

Determination is WHM crack we need more of it

I hate when people just assume things and never bother to test it out. Heres a simple test.

1. Go to any city.
2. Find a low lvl character.
3. Heal them and then yourself.
4. Watch how the numbers are about the same.

The reason why this myth that determination only affects healing done to you and not by you is perpetuated is because the wording of the determination tool-tip in game is ambiguous.

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"Determination increases the amount of damage dealt by all attacks including auto-attacks, weaponskills and spells. It also increases the amount of HP recovered by spells."

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As you can see, it is possible to read the bolded section in a couple different ways since it doesn't specify spells cast by you or cast on you. I hope they change the tool-tip to be more specific. The part about damage increase is equally ambiguous, except that context makes it obvious that it increases your damage done to monsters and not their damage done to you. The same applies to healing, but the context isn't clear from the statement.

Determination absolutely 100% affects the strength of healing spells cast by you. It does not increase the amount of healing done to you.

As a Sch I don't see much loss from having less det better to have more mind and crit as a Sch.

To put it as simply as possible, basically what i see it as, Determination is an all encompassing stat. It basically a synergy stat with your primary and secondary stat for functionality. Having a bucket load of mind in conjunction with determination will increase you median heals, on whm and sch. It also is not necessary to stack only determination on whm if you are a heal only whm. If you like to dps when you can, i suggest stacking determination because it effects spell dmg either done or healed. Looking at all the whm info as its my main, strctly from a healing perspective stacking spell speed or determination at this point in time equal the same amount of heals per second. So the only difference to me, is if you prefer to dps since it will increase dmg per spell as well thus saving mp. For sch, skip spell speed and stack crit first and determination second the synergy with crit is amazing for their toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Kaizersan

As a Sch I don't see much loss from having less det better to have more mind and crit as a Sch.

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Yep, as SCH you can easily ignore Titan debuff on yourself.

thx all for the reply.. i can cont putting some det on me :)

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Originally Posted by o3o

I hate when people just assume things and never bother to test it out. Heres a simple test.

1. Go to any city.
2. Find a low lvl character.
3. Heal them and then yourself.
4. Watch how the numbers are about the same.

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actually i did not assume ( :( ) i even did this. With my friend around and i to me the small different in number was random (it was slightly lower or higher on me or him) but he kept saying washis det.
i should have done it on a lower character, didnt though of that. will do next time im on.

thx :)

BTW thx for the stat tip on sch, im planning to do that one next (at some point :) )

thx and enjoy

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Originally Posted by Amaret

Yep, as SCH you can easily ignore Titan debuff on yourself.

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Titan debuff (the one after the prison) reduces only your damage output, not your heal output.

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Originally Posted by YuiSasaki

Titan debuff (the one after the prison) reduces only your damage output, not your heal output.

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No it affects healing output as well. I took a huge bit to my healing once just to see how bad it would do it. My cure I went from 960~ to 340~

You don't want that debuff on a healer.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

No it affects healing output as well. I took a huge bit to my healing once just to see how bad it would do it. My cure I went from 960~ to 340~

You don't want that debuff on a healer.

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Honestly I have been hit by that debuff from Titan before as a Sch and it barely lowered my heals.

Why is there still no statement from a Mod/GM/Rep on it?

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Originally Posted by Misaki

Why is there still no statement from a Mod/GM/Rep on it?

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Because it's obvious and easily tested.
Det basically functions similarly to a universal primary stat, with slightly less effectiveness per point.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

No it affects healing output as well. I took a huge bit to my healing once just to see how bad it would do it. My cure I went from 960~ to 340~

You don't want that debuff on a healer.

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I've healed titan over 100 times as a whm, the debuff does nothing to affect heals. I can't explain why your heal was a 340, but if you try Titan again and get debuffed, you will see what we mean.

What I have read from people doing the math is that 1 MND equals about 5-6 DET.

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Originally Posted by iro43

I've healed titan over 100 times as a whm, the debuff does nothing to affect heals. I can't explain why your heal was a 340, but if you try Titan again and get debuffed, you will see what we mean.

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Eh I don't know maybe I had broken gear and didn't notice. I'll keep an eye on it next time.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

No it affects healing output as well. I took a huge bit to my healing once just to see how bad it would do it. My cure I went from 960~ to 340~

You don't want that debuff on a healer.

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haha so funny.
The debuff is called Determination down, so people tend to think its a DET debuff, but ONLY decrease dmg done.
Is that hard to hover the mouse over the debuff and read it? lol

The Titan debuff is a weird one. It says "Determination Down" on the tooltip info but looking at my stats while it's on my determination is exactly the same. It also has no effect on healing potency.

Personally I think the description is wrong and it's just a massive attack/magic attack down buff, there's no way that lowering determination would reduce your damage by 80-90%.

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Originally Posted by Alkimi

The Titan debuff is a weird one. It says "Determination Down" on the tooltip info but looking at my stats while it's on my determination is exactly the same. It also has no effect on healing potency.

Personally I think the description is wrong and it's just a massive attack/magic attack down buff, there's no way that lowering determination would reduce your damage by 80-90%.

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As far as I remember the tooltip says, that only your damage output gets lowered. Only the symbol is the one from dtr down.
It's been a while since i payed a visit to Titan. Randoms are, well, not good xD