What would make Fates better?

Personally I kind of enjoy the fate system but they do get repetitive and boring after a while.
I know a lot of players don't enjoy fates.

My suggestion is just adding some more variety and bigger more expensive rewards.
I would like to get some of the communities feedback on what could be done to make Fates better.

I'd like to hear opinions from everyone interested in this subject please.
"Expecially players who hate fates"

In hopes the feedback will be used to improve the game.

If they removed them entirely.




I jest, honestly fates aren't that bad as long as they AREN'T forced down your throats as a sort of gating system for PvE content since you don't really get anything at all from a fate since all fates are just mindless zergs even with only a few people.

Going to edit this post here and say the only REAL fate that was fun at it's level would be the Battle for Highbridge fate chain, mostly due to the fact that there aren't many people in the area and it takes effort to defend and push for a full frontal assault on the invading force's camp. It's like the only fate of it's kind too unless I'm missing something?

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Originally Posted by Pavise

If they removed them entirely.




I jest, honestly fates aren't that bad as long as they AREN'T forced down your throats as a sort of gating system for PvE content since you don't really get anything at all from a fate since all fates are just mindless zergs even with only a few people.

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Really not the kind of feedback I'm looking for but thanks. Very negative.

As the Cybermen would say
FATES MUST PARISH OF THE MAXIMUM DELETION!!! DELETE, DELETE, DELETE!

But seriously, Pavise had some really good points. My biggest gripe about FATEs is that they are mindless zerg fests (incredibly easy) and that the ones that are required to do (for holiday events, beastmen daily, etc) have a 30 minute respawn timer... so if you get there right at the end of it, you have to just sit there waiting for 30 minutes... doing nothing until it spawns... Oh the Holiday FATE events are the best, cause you usually have to do that FATE multiple times, so no matter what you'll have to wait 30+ minutes.

You do realize the reason your waiting for 30 minutes is because your not doing the other fates popping up.....
You guys aren't really adding anything positive to the discussion and I think your missing the point.
Please you two, I'm looking for what would make them better. Don't you have any ideas?

There are two big problems with FATEs, as far as I can see.

The first is the playerbase. Until 2.1, everyone and their brother was spamming FATEs 24/7, which resulted in one of two things. Either people were burned out by them(like the majority of the playerbase is now), or people were completely turned off by them(like myself and my friends). The second major problem is that the FATEs that are actually fun and interesting are too few in number, and usually populated by far too many people for you to see what makes them interesting, like Redbelly Hive's branching paths.

Personally, I started out loving FATEs. Then came the FATE parties that made doing anything in them a nightmare for a PS3 user. Now that those have died off again, though, I'm finding myself actually participating in the random FATEs and appreciating them for what they are. I like doing my WHM 45 quest to get my armor, for example, and having to fight an entire FATE by myself to get one of the pieces. Made the event seem a lot richer.

As to the people complaining about FATEs being a requirement for quests and the such? This...probably wouldn't be nearly as big a problem if everyone didn't jump on the FATE Party bandwagon, proving to the devs that everyone LOVES LOVES LOVES FATEs and making sure they were only active for about 5 minutes at the maximum. According to the stats we already gave them, the average turnover for the CT FATEs or the Hildibrand FATE or the Sylph FATE is only about 10-15 minutes.

Edit: Oh, hey, I missed the part where I actually answer your question. o:
How do you make FATEs better? Well, just my opinion, but some of the best FATEs in the game are the chains. My personal favorites being Highbridge, the Redbelly Hive and the Corpse Brigade in Southern Thanalan. Overall, make some FATEs that tell a complete story, that engage us for an extended period of time and make the world more interesting. Not just stuff like "Well, this giant crab has come out of nowhere. Time for him to die!"

Which, unfortunately, is the majority of the FATEs in the current system.

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Originally Posted by Pavise

If they removed them entirely.




I jest, honestly fates aren't that bad as long as they AREN'T forced down your throats as a sort of gating system for PvE content since you don't really get anything at all from a fate since all fates are just mindless zergs even with only a few people.

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I would have to agree, unfortunately. It had potential aswell if it wasn't just spamming mindless hoards of mobs and lasting 30sec ~10min at a time. (a pointless event with no plot-point)

Campaign battles from FFxi: Wing of the Goddess more a point to being a sandbox type of expansion where you actually made a difference in the world through wins/losses.

FATEs need(not should) NEED to be phase by phase events in each zone so player/adventurers can engage in them no matter they level, while still achieving something and gaining a reward whether it we seals, gil, exp, treasure, MATs or items. From low level areas to high level camps the experience increases but the idea is the same.

1.0 had it's own kind of FATE which adventurers spammed for seals. There was also another event done to obtain relics(do you remember?). What if this was to be scaled down for a more short-term result which had a week-long lasting effect of your city state? What benefits would your nation have over the world? Would beast-men be more inferior? Would you be paid more winning battles?
FATEs now don't seem to be linked to anything bigger than pointless skirmishes. There's no penalty for loosing or incentive for winning.

Hard to make something that is design to be zerged by many fun honestly. Just fundamentally flawed.

If GW2 did anything right, it was dynamic events. For those who aren't familiar with dynamic events, these were essentially FATEs spread out across the map with some being stand-alone events but most being chain events. Success or failure of these events can change the map by making certain places or NPCs (in)accessible. Example: The Pact is assaulting the Orrian homeland. First event is to escort a camp leader to the site. If successful, second event is to protect the campsite until defences are built. If successful, third event is to escort the second camp leader to the second base. Repeat. Later, the second base will fall under attack (as another DE). If successful, continue as normal. If fail, the NPCs retreat back to the first base and the first base falls under attack.

As far as I know, the only real chain FATE we have is Svara. I realise it might not be possible to do dynamic map changes, but at least having FATE chains with success/fail branches would make things more interesting, rather than "Oh look, FATE popped. Ok, done. Let's go to the other one on the other side of the map now. Oh, it failed. Oh well, next."

I know you want suggestions on how to make it better, but honestly I don't think there is a way without completely scrapping away with FATEs and come up with something different to take their place.
Everyone in this thread makes really good points and pretty much covers anything I have to say about FATEs.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

As far as I know, the only real chain FATE we have is Svara. I realise it might not be possible to do dynamic map changes, but at least having FATE chains with success/fail branches would make things more interesting, rather than "Oh look, FATE popped. Ok, done. Let's go to the other one on the other side of the map now. Oh, it failed. Oh well, next."

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There are actually at least three chain FATEs aside from Svara, which is the least interesting. The Attack on Highbridge is accessed much earlier(I think around 25-ish), and has two potential final stages, depending on whether you succeeded or failed in Act 1/2/3. Then there's the Redbelly Hive, in South Shroud, which was, at least in 2.0, one of the saddest cases, because the most interesting result of the chain was almost never seen because people were too busy zerging it(if you fail at Part 2, a new third act comes around, with a boss who summons a giant turtle in addition to all his Redbelly buddies). The Redbelly Hive's especially cool because success or failure decides what NPC's will be located there until the next time it pops(it can be either the Redbellies, or the Woodwailers). The last of my three is the Corpse Brigade FATEs in Southern Thanalan. This is more or less a standard FATE, but it's still pretty cool, IMO, especially since it's almost always left alone by the playerbase(great place to get together with friends and actually enjoy some open world content).

Oh, and there's the worms in Southern Thanalan, over by the Forgotten Spring. That's a two-part FATE as well, but...ehhhhhhhh.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

If GW2 did anything right, it was dynamic events. For those who aren't familiar with dynamic events, these were essentially FATEs spread out across the map with some being stand-alone events but most being chain events. Success or failure of these events can change the map by making certain places or NPCs (in)accessible. Example: The Pact is assaulting the Orrian homeland. First event is to escort a camp leader to the site. If successful, second event is to protect the campsite until defences are built. If successful, third event is to escort the second camp leader to the second base. Repeat. Later, the second base will fall under attack (as another DE). If successful, continue as normal. If fail, the NPCs retreat back to the first base and the first base falls under attack.

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Shoot! You posted while I was updating! XD
Glad you came out with the same point. That's exactly what FATEs should be like!

Remove "tagging" - It does nothing but promote a "MINE! MINE! MINE!" attitude. Instead, make it based on actual participation, % of damage/healing...SOMETHING else.

Form parties automatically within the radius of a FATE. When one party is filled, another will start.

Decrease the amount of FATES per zone, but increase the impact and scale of the FATES to compensate.

Last, but not least: Have meaningful rewards.

That's my input.

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Originally Posted by FMElan

There are actually at least three chain FATEs aside from Svara, which is the least interesting. The Attack on Highbridge is accessed much earlier(I think around 25-ish), and has two potential final stages, depending on whether you succeeded or failed in Act 1/2/3. Then there's the Redbelly Hive, in South Shroud, which was, at least in 2.0, one of the saddest cases, because the most interesting result of the chain was almost never seen because people were too busy zerging it(if you fail at Part 2, a new third act comes around, with a boss who summons a giant turtle in addition to all his Redbelly buddies). The Redbelly Hive's especially cool because success or failure decides what NPC's will be located there until the next time it pops(it can be either the Redbellies, or the Woodwailers).

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Did not know about these so thank you for sharing. ^^

But we need exactly more FATEs like these. They need to be in the majority rather than in the minority. As for zerging, it's inevitable as it happens even in GW2, but I think they attempted to fix it by scaling mobs by the number of people who participated in it previously? I thought I heard something like that.

The players follow the red dot on the map like a herd of cats running after a laser pointer. If I wanted a game like that I would play Defiance. SE ruined Fates by allowing a system to be put into place to be abused by players. The player base ruined Fates by running them 24/7 in mass hordes. SE again ruined Fates, by seeing this data, and putting in even more Fates in quests and dailies. As for doing other Fates in the area to make the quest one pop up, part of the problem is that while you are off clearing off the other Fates, the one you need can pop and the mass group sitting there waiting can burn it down in under a minute. Meanwhile you are racing back hoping to get a hit or two in before the Fate is over. And if it is a Fate that requires Gold, you are screwed.


It seems that the only thing that can improve Fates, is not Fates themselves, but to introduce other things to the game, or like the 2.1 update, make other options worthwhile. Fates do not need better rewards, or more branches that can happen, because the other branches will never happen (Redbranch Hive) as long as the mass zerg is there running from one red dot to another.

I think it would be fun if there were a wider variety of FATEs. For example, if certain FATEs only spawned for during certain weather.

I think it would also be fun if there were more incentives to do them, other than minions and exp. Like if mobs had a chance to dropped special items or mats (only available in FATEs). Might make things a bit more interesting. It would work for potential gathering FATEs too.

In any case, there really needs to be a better reason to do FATEs other than the exp. I personally like the little intro story that goes a long with it, but I know not everyone finds that kind of thing interesting. A FATE journal, to keep track of the ones you've participated in, would be interesting too.

Remember the Conquest system from XI?
Apply it to fates.
Payers complete fates for their GC in order to curry favor in that region. Winning the region awards buffs / bonuses / discounts / exclusive vendor items / etc. in the GC's home city for that region. However, this idea would require a decent amount of content development time to implement...

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Originally Posted by Xerich

Remove "tagging" - It does nothing but promote a "MINE! MINE! MINE!" attitude. Instead, make it based on actual participation, % of damage/healing...SOMETHING else.

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It actually is. FATE participation, outside of parties, is based on the amount of damage dealt or enmity generated(through healing or tanking). For some reason, parties get a free pass so long as they participate a little, which is something that needs to be looked at, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Xerich

Last, but not least: Have meaningful rewards.

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The problem with this is that those rewards become less and less meaningful as people continue running the content. When you get a minion, or a mount, or barding or even equipment from the first runs, it's awesome. But, after a few days, you'll see those prizes end up on the marketplace...and after a few more days, they'll be getting sold for 20 gil a piece, if not less. Yes, you can make them unique/untradeable, but the more people that know about the rewards, the more will camp for that FATE specifically, and the less and less meaningful the rewards get.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Did not know about these so thank you for sharing. ^^

But we need exactly more FATEs like these. They need to be in the majority rather than in the minority. As for zerging, it's inevitable as it happens even in GW2, but I think they attempted to fix it by scaling mobs by the number of people who participated in it previously? I thought I heard something like that.

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I agree, 100%. Those are the FATEs I actually enjoy doing. The Notorious Monster FATEs are in second place, so long as they're interesting/challenging enough, like It's Not Lupus, The Eyes Have It, and Go, Go, Gorgimera. Svara, too, to an extent.

...But at the same time, those FATEs also annoy me to no end, because it's always the worst tank that gets there first and gets half the field killed because he doesn't understand how to position the enemy....

And as to the mobs scaling, that's actually a change to 2.1. A change we never see because...nobody's doing FATEs anymore. :-p

I actually don't mind fates. I don't like the fact that fates are now required to now complete quests and progress. I quest with friends and while we are going along, its like "Oh look, there a fate, wanna try it" not sitting in one spot for hours on end waiting for one fate to pop just so i get to run to another spot and wait just as long for that one to pop

*edit again*

Also the more people that have done them, the harder it will be for the newer people to get through them when they need them. I can't begin to count the number of times i have seen shout begging for anyone to come help with one so they can beat it

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Originally Posted by FMElan

It actually is. FATE participation, outside of parties, is based on the amount of damage dealt or enmity generated(through healing or tanking). For some reason, parties get a free pass so long as they participate a little, which is something that needs to be looked at, IMO.

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Yes, that's what I was trying to say originally I think. It just needs to be looked at and adjusted.

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Originally Posted by FMElan

The problem with this is...[snip]

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I think the rewards would need to be very well thought out and executed in order to keep it fresh. I don't know, maybe offer things like Fantasia potions, or tokens (philosophy/mythology) or have PVP fates that also offer rewards? I'm just brainstorming here, but I really think there should be something of meaning. I also think that whatever it is, it should be unique/untradable.

@ the OP. First you said you wanted to hear from the ones that don't like fates, and when you got a couple to respond, you tell them they are being to negative o.O

I don't mind FATE's when I am out and about doing hunting logs, Guildhests or waiting for a dungeon queue to pop. Soley participating in them in order to gain experience is what is boring. I suppose it is the repatition of it all. So, I say do nothing to make them more attractive. They were the thing to do pre 2.1 and now dungeons and hests are just as good, and give good upgrades to gear. FATE is now nothing more something to do if I'm around when it's around. Nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Xerich

I think the rewards would need to be very well thought out and executed in order to keep it fresh. I don't know, maybe offer things like Fantasia potions, or tokens (philosophy/mythology) or have PVP fates that also offer rewards? I'm just brainstorming here, but I really think there should be something of meaning. I also think that whatever it is, it should be unique/untradable.

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I think my big problem here is that I can't seem to think of what a good reward for a FATE would be. I think the minions are pretty fair, honestly, and there are a good number of minions you get exclusively from FATEs(Baby Bun, Baby Bat, Baby Rat, Smallshell, the Puk, Infant Imp...I'm probably forgetting a few). I also think the Behemoth and Odin rewards are pretty cool, even if they're mostly for vanity purposes.

But I can't think of what a FATE could give you that would be meaningful. Tomestones would be cool, but I feel like the amount would have to be at the bare minimum to avoid people zerging FATEs 24/7 to reach their caps within a day. Equipment might be neat, but since FATEs are rarely a test of any actual skill, I feel like giving anything other than vanity gear would be a bit unfair. As to Fantasia potions and the like, I think the idea as of right now is to implement Fantasia Potions on the Mogstation as an additional service.

The other big problem with giving meaningful prizes is, if it's something physical? A month after they implement the FATEs, nobody will bother doing them because they already have the prize they need. The only way to keep that content alive would be consumables, honestly.

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Originally Posted by Mags

@ the OP. First you said you wanted to hear from the ones that don't like fates, and when you got a couple to respond, you tell them they are being to negative o.O

I don't mind FATE's when I am out and about doing hunting logs, Guildhests or waiting for a dungeon queue to pop. Soley participating in them in order to gain experience is what is boring. I suppose it is the repatition of it all. So, I say do nothing to make them more attractive. They were the thing to do pre 2.1 and now dungeons and hests are just as good, and give good upgrades to gear. FATE is now nothing more something to do if I'm around when it's around. Nothing more.

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Yeah? Deleting them wouldn't make things better. That's not a suggestion
that's just ignorance.

If each mob in the fate dropped 10, 000gil. If you got 100 myth from each fate..

Just to name a few. .

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Originally Posted by Brutikus4th

If each mob in the fate dropped 10, 000gil. If you got 100 myth from each fate..

Just to name a few. .

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Um...

Yeah, those can't even be taken seriously.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

Yeah? Deleting them wouldn't make things better. That's not a suggestion
that's just ignorance.

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Actually, yes! Deleting them and starting from scratch would make things better. Nothing the FATEs offer are memorable and they'll be quickly forgotten. Replace them with a system from FFxi(which I think should've been done as a tribute) and faith in the FF-brand will be restored!

VIVA LA RASA!!! YeeeeHaaaah!

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

Actually, yes! Deleting them and starting from scratch would make things better.

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A FATE Reborn?

I don't know if I would like the sound of that or be absolutely terrified.

I wish FATEs would actually change the environment. As it stands, they're just like an overlay that has no influence over anything at all. Just extra mob pops that will give you extra experience if you choose to kill them.

FATE completion reward is also a culprit. If the reward is instead incorporated into the enemies in the FATE, then we can design FATEs that literally last days but still is worthwhile to participate for, say, 10 minutes only. Lump sum reward like that tends to change the meaning of the content. Like how lump sum Myth tomes make people want to skip mobs and do speed runs etc.

What-if FATE: Sheep is invading! A quarter of Central La Noscea is now covered with sheep. Ladybugs and Squirrels have been forced to relocate further north across the river due to the sheer population of sheep. The ultimate objective is to control the sheep population. The FATE will take 1 hour to complete.

• Adventurers can kill sheep but will get a hatred debuff lasting 1 hour that will make you take extra damage from sheep. Stacks up to 10. You however also have a chance to gain special loot by killing Named sheep that have a low spawn rate.
• The Bismark have set up a stall selling roasted lamb that will grant adventurers extra damage and regen while killing sheep. These cooks from Bismark will buy (i.e. accept hand-ins) of raw lamb from adventurers as well as roasted lamb from Culinarians. Culinarians can right-click on the grill to turn raw lamb into roasted lamb.
• The Yellow Jackets have sent a detachment to guard against sheep invading Limsa Lominsa. They need shields, axes, leather jackets and potions! They have also set up a medic station and require adventurers to help heal injured Yellow Jackets!
• A sheep under attack has a chance to go berserk, causing all sheep within 15 meters radius to copy over enmity data from the berserk sheep. Berserk sheep has a chance every 10 seconds to spread berserk again. Berserk lasts 15 minutes.
• If sheep population is successfully controlled either by direct culling or by help cooking lamb, healing Yellow Jackets and handing in supplies, a named Queen Sheep will pop, allowing players who have formed full parties or alliances to right click to interact and enter an instanced fight against the Queen Sheep. Queen Sheep fight will exist for 8 hours.

If nobody kills the sheep, the FATE enters its second phase, and sheep will start to kill off the Yellow Jackets and invade Limsa Lominsa. Invasion will cause NPCs in Limsa Lominsa to relocate to Upper Deck and create barricades along the way.

• Stranded NPCs will spawn all over lower deck and players can guard them to safety. Other NPCs in upper deck will randomly give quests to pick up important objects they forgot down in lower deck.
• The Admiral have ordered ships to enter port and fire upon the invading sheep. They need supplies like ore, food, and shards. Lumber and new tools are also needed at Upper Deck to reinforce barricades.

The problem with the FATE system is that it is too simplistic. If the only goal is to provide a means for players to gain experience that is ancillary to dungeon grinding and main scenario quests then that is fine, but the developers need to recognize that certain content can't be implemented as a FATE because it is not compatible with the end result nor the venue for that content.

If the only gain from FATE is experience then there shouldn't be any NMs in FATE. Notorious Monsters are supposed to be challenging content and it is IMPOSSIBLE to balance challenge when you can't limit the number of players that can participate in any meaningful way. That doesn't mean there can't be FATE that have NMs in them, it just means there shouldn't be any FATE that ONLY feature NMs, nor should the developers think that by throwing NMs into a FATE it will fulfill the niche that NMs from most MMOs do.

Scripted events also shouldn't take place in the current FATE system, because no one enters these FATE with the goal of saving the bland NPCs in this game. Why? because who gives a rat's ass if this rat-ass kidnaps a superfluous npc? Especially when this superfluous npc will be fine when the next FATE expires or is beaten by someone else.

If they want to create events that have meaning to the player then we need something deeper than "help the good guys beat the bad guys!" We need a sense that what we do affects the world around us, we also need to be able to choose where our priorities lie and which side we want to be on.

For an example of a FATE that is mind boggingly stupid in wasted potential, there is an event near Bronze Lake that begins when a mamool-ja npc wants to use the hot springs. The FATE begins when he is told by the guards that he is not allowed, and if the player wants to participate in the FATE he has to help the guards beat up the mamool-ja. Personally, I think the mamool-ja should have every right to bathe in the hotsprings and that the guards are biggots who need a good punch to the head. How much cooler would this FATE be if I could choose either to help the guards evict the mamool-ja OR to stand up for the mamool-ja and rough up the guards a bit so that they stop being asses? Now let's say we win and the mamool-ja enters the hotsprings, but now he is a vendor who sells something unique, but his presence disables a different vendor. Players suddenly have agency. Of course for this to work both vendors would need something that is meaningful to different players to promote a situation where some people want the mamool-ja there and others don't.

The problem with FATE that I see, is that SE thought it could crank out an easy system for repeatable content and ascribe arbitrary meaning to it, when in reality it just doesn't work that way. And if they want the FATE system to be more than trite throw-away experience grab bags then they need to actually take the time to make a system that both gives players a feeling that we actually can affect this world as well as gives us a feeling of accomplishment for doing so.

about the only thing fun about fates is they are open world content me and a group of friends can go do if we are in the area. When I first did one it was exciting and I was happy a random event was going on.. But it was bittersweet, everyone just zerged and left.Even in the fate parties its rare for people to talk even just standing there waiting for another one to pop. I want a fate to uncover a dungeon with a boss an army would need to fight. Not a blue circle to pop an NM that will drop in 10 seconds. I want to see a cool reward from a fun fate, killing wave after wave is just an aoe fest. I want stuff like Odin to work properly. and I want less of all this. there are so many fate , event fate, quest fate, etc. that the system lost its appeal and has no impact.

Its not even just the system being kind of meh. Its so overused that when I see a fate event like the current one Instead of going , oh this could be cool. Im going, I wonder if this will last 10 seconds, this is going to be boring. I dont want to do this. Please not more fate. It just doesnt feel good to do fate, especially not worth it.

Biggest change I think fate needs is more zones per level, even if some don't get used (and some currently don't) It allows parties to wide variety in where to go fate grind and not have to be herded into massive zergs in limited areas.
Also rewards would be nice, even if its just a chance at "pink" level rewards.
A system that can decide if a fate is going to be participated on, and reduce the remaining time to 5 minutes, then increase the time back to "normal" if engaged.
A system that shows the chain a FATE belongs too.
These are fixes that i think could help the game's FATE system for now.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

Biggest change I think fate needs is more zones per level, even if some don't get used (and some currently don't) It allows parties to wide variety in where to go fate grind and not have to be herded into massive zergs in limited areas.

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We already have this. The playerbase has decided to herd into specific areas and zerg the FATEs there, rather than spreading out, because it's more efficient. That's why Upper/Outer La Noscea, Mor Dohna, the Isle of Umbra, the high level Eastern Thanalan/Coerthas/Southern Thanalan/Western La Noscea/East Shroud/North Shroud FATEs get ignored all the time.