PvP: Sleep and win!

Yeah. 1 Purify isn't enough.

Edit: Nevermind. Taking advantage of this before it's nerfed.

I just beat 2 BLMs, I don't see a problem. If you stay within your healer's range, they should be able to handle the sleep.

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Originally Posted by Skyhound

I just beat 2 BLMs, I don't see a problem. If you stay within your healer's range, they should be able to handle the sleep.

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Nah we slept your healer.
They purified?
Oh, I just insta-sleept them again with the INSTANT BLM SLEEP PVP ACTION.

Then we wreck your DD.

GG

sleep resistance materias

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Originally Posted by Darkshneider

sleep resistance materias

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Reduces the timer on sleep. Not resists the sleep spell.

30 second sleep reduced to 20.

Still owned your party.

so you alredy tested a full meld equip of those materias and tested trough?

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Originally Posted by Darkshneider

so you alredy tested a full meld equip of those materias and tested trough?

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No. I used the sleep resistance candy and potion together. reduced the sleep duration by a few seconds

use Vow of Silence? Oh wait wrong game...

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

No. I used the sleep resistance candy and potion together. reduced the sleep duration by a few seconds

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I rest my Case.
Seriously tho,there is a counter strat for everything.Makes ya seem amateurish to come to a forum complain about something when you havent fully experimented on solitions.Change tactics or Start melding

So far I haven't encountered a part that was able to take advantage of their sleep. They just don't seem organized enough for it since I'll get put under and then a bard or something will hit me anyway and do me the favor of waking me up.

Pre-mades sure but your own pre-made should have counters for that

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Nah we slept your healer.
They purified?
Oh, I just insta-sleept them again with the INSTANT BLM SLEEP PVP ACTION.

Then we wreck your DD.

GG

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You can do that once every minute. If the BLM starts with Swiftcast - Sleep, Purify the sleep. If he tries to cast it again, he has to Surecast - Sleep and if your team is mildly competent, they will just stun that. If he starts with a non-swiftcasted sleep, just LoS the sleep and the surecast went to waste. If he Swiftcasts after the Surecast, Purify and wreck him. A BLM is incredibly squishy and will go down before Swiftcast is up again, especially if someone else is pressuring their healer.

Hell, even if you get slept again for 15 seconds, and then again for 6, I have noticed that usually isn't even enough to burst down a single person that's intent on running away.

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Originally Posted by Darkshneider

I rest my Case.
Seriously tho,there is a counter strat for everything.Makes ya seem amateurish to come to a forum complain about something when you havent fully experimented on solitions.Change tactics or Start melding

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Well, my win rate is ~80%

So I just went BLM and started sleeping everyone.
Havent lost since,.

Disregard this thread.

Found our winning strat.

sleep complains are alot like fireball spam complaints in fighting games.

Esuna sleep. Each time you try to sleep in succession, the more the person gets resistant to it till eventually "immune" to it.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Esuna sleep. Each time you try to sleep in succession, the more the person gets resistant to it till eventually "immune" to it.

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Nevermind ^.^

Sleep timers are to high for PVP, 30 seconds of being frozen followed by 15, followed by 6 when you are the only one capable of doing anything about it isn't really good. You can't cross-class esuna and the one for SCH is only for their job so in a 4v4 with 2 DD, 1 tank and 1 healer, the only capable of removing other units enfeebles is the healer. Eliminate the healer's ability to act and you can pretty much terrorize the rest of the party.

Another simple fix would be to add a pvp action that works like esuna/leech to allow the DD or tank to remove enfeebles on the target so that sleep spamming woudln't be an issue.

Or they just limit sleep effect to a 15/10/5 seconds duration, cutting it in half be more than enough to help out since pvp itself is a fast paced event, the fights don't last longer than 5-10 minutes for the most part so if you are able to knock a person out for nearly a minute it does influence the chances of winning.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Reduces the timer on sleep. Not resists the sleep spell.

30 second sleep reduced to 20.

Still owned your party.

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Do we know how much sleep resistance llowers the duration. You can get 24 sleep resistance and if its a 1:1 ratio that is 6 seconds for a full strength sleep. Pop purify and the next sleep will be 3 seconds. Sleep would basically be useless at that point.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Yeah. 1 Purify isn't enough.

Edit: Nevermind. Taking advantage of this before it's nerfed.

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Lightning hairstyle is a handicap, you better go change that

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Originally Posted by Edellis

sleep complains are alot like fireball spam complaints in fighting games.

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Untrue, fireballs in street fighter have plenty of counterplay. The animation, the actual space of the arena, and abilities that outright counter it, allow the player to go through or over it, or reflect it.

There isn't anywhere near this level of counterplay in the game currently. Smelling Salts do not function, and much of the CP has been relegated to passive abilities gained through pvp and the possibility of stat melding or resistance potion drinking. Other than that the only active counterplay to sleep is the same counterplay applied to any other spell in the game, which is limited, and often on extreme cooldowns or subject to diminishing returns. Something you won't see in fighting games.

Best comps I've seen:

BLM SMN WHM PLD - So much CC

WAR SCH SMN BRD - ridiculous burst.

I run a 3 person premade - Mnk Smn Whm. I'm the whm. We go up against blm comps all the time. I have a 95% win rate overall. The last time I got slept more than once (Can purify the first one) was lets see.. Oh yes, it did happen one time, over 150 matches ago.

If you just strategize and load up your group with hots and hide while they run in and pummel the black mage instantly, the black mage might get 1 sleep off on your dps, which they purify and then the blms dead 5 seconds later.

Black mages are incredibly squishy, as a healer you just hide and have your team destroy them before you come out, if you need to you can pop out for a split second to esuna then hide again.. Sleep is a gimmick strat.


Double summoner however, now thats a scary comp.

There is too much difference between a party with two ranged DDs compared to a party with 2 melee DDs.

The duty finder should allow only 1 melee dd + 1 ranged dd combo, like it already does for dungeons.

Yoshi if you are reading this, remember DAOC not only had strong CC, it also had MANY COUNTERS, not just purge (purify), but also charge (cc immunity + speed) and determination (passive cc resistance).

Kiting behind corners is too cheesy too. Why walls and columns in the middle of the arena? The coliseum didnt have that.

You put together DAOC and GW1, and this is fine, it works quite well, but you should have balanced the thing better.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Yeah. 1 Purify isn't enough.

Edit: Nevermind. Taking advantage of this before it's nerfed.

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It's not going to be nerfed. if it really bothers you that much, eat sleep resist candy and get sleep resist materia. It's not broken. There are multiple forms of CC out there.

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Double summoner however, now thats a scary comp.

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Actually, it's a pretty terrible comp. Summoner is the squishiest class in the game, and whenever I get another summoner in my party, we usually lose. So please, stop stacking the "nerf smn" deck.

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Kiting behind corners is too cheesy too. Why walls and columns in the middle of the arena?

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Because having yet another plain, empty circle battle area would be boring as hell? seriously, it's stupid how often they use this. Bowl of embers? Empty circle. Howling eye? Empty circle (most of the fight). Titan? Empty circle (though I'll give it credit for the shrinking arena concept). Turn 4? Empty circle. Thornmarch? Empty circle. Every boss area in Pharos Sirius? Empty circle.

If there were no walls / pillars etc BRD/BLM/SMN/WHM/SCH would all be a bit more powerful than they are now.

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Black mages are incredibly squishy,

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SMN is squishier. BLM has defensive cooldowns. SMN has none.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Another simple fix would be to add a pvp action that works like esuna/leech to allow the DD or tank to remove enfeebles on the target so that sleep spamming woudln't be an issue.

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Some classes may benefit from going without there soul-stone and using more cross-class skills, such as WAR going MRD for cure and stoneskin.

remove sleep

problem solved.

If you're losing in a double SMN group, I'm sorry, but you're terrible at PvP lol.

I approve of the original post. Thumbs up ;)

Dumbest thing I ever read that tried to sound like the person knew what they were talking about. You lost all credibility when you put down "I run a 3 person premade" which means 90% of the time you are going against 4 pugs who have no voice comms and no history playing together, but good job on your 3 person premade beating up on pugs! People should not comment on PVP strategies unless they are going Full Premade vs Full Premade otherwise youre probably going against maybe a handful a good PVPers every few matches who are at a disadvantage of not having chemistry and voice. End Rant!

I agree running a 3 person premade then bragging about betting up randoms is silly.

Why the 3 person premade? Ya get chased out of 4mans? Want to battle a team that has no voice coms or experience grouping?

3 man premades are lulz, way to play against randoms cause you were rolled by too many 4 man premades

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Actually, it's a pretty terrible comp. Summoner is the squishiest class in the game, and whenever I get another summoner in my party, we usually lose. So please, stop stacking the "nerf smn" deck.

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Maybe you just haven't seen good ones. If 2 good SMNs decide to focus dps you, you will be dead before you even know what the hell happened.

the only thing i see here, is that arenas are exclusive to ranged classes, and from what i see when i play, melee is an handicap for your team, i rather have bard/blm/smn than any dragoon or monk on my team... the CC available to ranged classes completly locks down melee, purify isnt really a solution or slotting resist materias, game needs more counters, melee need to be look at and balanced so they can be has good has all the premades currently running in the pvp arena.. all you see atm is smn/blm premades with one healer and a tank....

if there are any kind of stats, yoshi will know blm's and smns are the top choices atm to go in the arenas.... and melee are getting the short end of the stick and they cant do anything about it.

the game doesnt need more counters. it seriously needs less cc's. if u can cc every 30 seconds that lasts more than 5 seconds its already ridiculous. as it is now, only certain compositions will give u a high percentage of winning, where everything else just falls short. balanced this is not. lol

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Originally Posted by Nikita

If you're losing in a double SMN group, I'm sorry, but you're terrible at PvP lol.

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miasma (-50% heals + heavy) + dots + sprinting. u cereal?

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Originally Posted by Axidrain

miasma (-50% heals + heavy) + dots + sprinting. u cereal?

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Yes I am super cereal, that's why I said "in a double SMN group" and not "against a double SMN group". :P

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Taking advantage of this before it's nerfed.

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This is exactly the attitude I have toward pvp at the moment.

Sleep would be fine if a BLM + SMN couldn't burst someone 100% to 0% in 2.5s.

Drink a poison pot, you wake up on 1 tic of the poison, anyone tried this?

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Originally Posted by casker

This is exactly the attitude I have toward pvp at the moment.

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This is the nature of PvP in even PvP-only videogames.

It's only really an issue though when everybody refuses to learn counterplay because of popular opinions.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Drink a poison pot, you wake up on 1 tic of the poison, anyone tried this?

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Haven't had the chance, but with how many people are complaining I just assume this doesnt work. But since the day of I've been curious as to if it does. (I'm assuming it doesn't. Pre-existing dots don't wake mobs either)

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Drink a poison pot, you wake up on 1 tic of the poison, anyone tried this?

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IIRC, Poisoning Potions can't be used on friendly targets, not even on your own character. I know it works (or it used to work...) on FFXI, but it's not the case on FFXIV: ARR.