ive really had it up to here with finding a good df party only for the time limit to expire.
you want us to be nice and friendly in df? i can do that but it takes ages explaining the strat to new players as well as them geting in a few practice rounds. by the time thats all done timer is out.
and what? rince and repeat all over again?
why is this timer even here?! just to waste our time grinding through ever new df groups and failing over and over?! nice time sink you implemented there for us real sneaky.
please remove it. this is bs....
remove or double time limit in duty finder!!
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12-20-2013, 01:52 AMrazzgrizz3remove or double time limit in duty finder!!
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12-20-2013, 01:55 AMSeig345
I understand the intent behind this, but doubling the timer would make your wait BEFORE you get into the dungeon MUCH longer. Removing it would potentially lead to needing several hours free to have a chance of getting in one dungeon run. Depending on what you're running, there'd be a chance you'd spend your whole free time on the game waiting and never get in.
If you don't want to wait for your DF random pug odds to improve, you could use the Party Finder and/or shout for a static group to attempt the content with from within your own server. -
12-20-2013, 01:55 AMSinth
In 2 weeks this will be a non-issue as people will be familiar with the content. The timer serves an important purpose -- To force instances to close and become available for other groups. Without the timer, instances can be help open indefinitely by malicious players, preventing people from accessing the dungeon altogether.
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12-20-2013, 02:00 AMrazzgrizz3
then make it possible for the SAME team to qeue again. surely that should be doable
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12-20-2013, 02:02 AMSeig345That's what the Party Finder is for. Players on Sargatanas are already starting to add 'Please use the party finder to join" to the end of their shouts to raise awareness of the utility.Quote:
Originally Posted by razzgrizz3
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12-20-2013, 02:03 AMJohnistUse Party Finder, kick people you don't like, try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by razzgrizz3
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12-20-2013, 02:08 AMAmyasI would think that would fall under 'abuse of the vote kick' that the devs said they would punish... hopefully account terminations await those reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnist
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12-20-2013, 02:10 AMSeig345You're confusing this with a slightly different issue... Party Finder and Duty Finder are 2 different features of the game. By using the Party Finder, OP would be creating a group before queuing up for a dungeon, meaning he would be the leader and well within TOS to kick who he sees fit between dungeon runs, and would not involve use of the Vote Kick feature at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
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12-20-2013, 02:13 AMAmyasIs there actual statement from the devs saying its okay to kick someone from a PF group just because you don't like the cut of their jib? If they're talking smack or something like that, sure I can understand, but just randomly kicking because gear or even if they aren't the best seems like it would be right up the abuse report alley.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
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12-20-2013, 02:13 AMSinthYou aren't entitled to join anyone's party. He can kick you for being lalafel if he wanted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
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12-20-2013, 02:14 AMAlhanelemEven with a preformed party, you can only vote kick once inside the instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
The time limits are plenty long enough. If they are extended, that means more waiting to get into a duty. Once you know the dungeon, it shouldn't even take you half the time limit to beat most dungeons. -
12-20-2013, 02:16 AMAmyasOkay, so you're saying I could start a PF group, get to the last boss then kick a player at random for funsies and that doesn't fall under abuse? For some reason I don't think the devs intended for only randos to be punishable for stuff like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinth
EDIT: and isn't lead given to a random player once you get in a dungeon no matter what?
Ah okay. (Understood.) :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
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12-20-2013, 02:17 AMSeig345The whole point of a pre-fab group would be to pick people you want in your party based on your own criteria. That's how that whole /shout spam thing works, Party Finder is just a refined version of the same system. You aren't obligated to stick with someone if you don't like them. The party belongs to the leader. Neither the leader nor the other party members should be forced to keep someone who's either intentionally wiping in dungeons or just doesn't seem to be able to cut it after so many runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
While we aren't talking about kicking someone due to an unagreeable gib, that situation doesn't quite apply here since the unagreeable gib owner wouldn't be invited in the first place.
You're talking about vote kick, we're talking about the dungeon run failing, running out of time, and the leader kicking someone between queues...Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
Edit: In fact, that's a non-issue within this topic because the OP simply wanted to be able to re-queue with the same team so the learning process doesn't have to start all over again, which more or less means allowing for some who take a little longer to learn. -
12-20-2013, 02:22 AMSinthPlease show me where in the Terms of Service there are guidelines on when it is acceptable/unacceptable to kick a party member?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
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12-20-2013, 02:23 AMDaleI agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by razzgrizz3
I've been asking for them to remove the time limit or significantly increase it for awhile now. So it's good to know I finally have someone on my side.
They are just way too strict and very unforgiving for people learning an instance. They also don't allow for emergencies or needing to replace a member who had to go. It also encourages the rushed atmosphere that can so unpleasant for players who like to watch cut scenes ect.
Other games do not have them. I don't understand why this one does. -
12-20-2013, 02:26 AMrazzgrizz3did u not read the post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
i said explaining it to new players and them geting used to mechanics eats up the whole time. jesus christ
also im not saying do that on all duties. but the hard one should definately be on longer timers. if youre gonna nerf it like you did amdapor im fine with reduced times tho. -
12-20-2013, 02:28 AMrazzgrizz3what the hell ar you smoking? duty finder is cross server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnist
party finder is not used at all atm. and god knows when it will. might be months -
12-20-2013, 02:30 AMAlhanelemIt really shouldn't. No dungeon takes so much time to explain that you should need more time than is currently being given.Quote:
i said explaining it to new players and them geting used to mechanics eats up the whole time. jesus christ
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12-20-2013, 02:32 AMSeig345Might be days, if you actually use it, instead of using the same mentality as non-voters during elections... Countless people all thinking that their 1 vote won't matter, not realizing that because they aren't the only one thinking that way, they're part of a large group that could have a massive effect on the outcome if they got off their butts and voted one way or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by razzgrizz3
It IS doable, and it's been done. Just because you want to dismiss it doesn't mean it isn't there... use /shout OR Party Finder if you have to, but the option you yourself asked for is already in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by razzgrizz3
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12-20-2013, 02:32 AMJohnist1) Expect the unexpected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
2) There is plenty of time to finish an instance on the first go-round if all party members are intelligent and capable of learning.
3) They give you enough time on the clock for 2-3 wipes per boss. If you haven't figured out the tricks during those 2-3 wipes, then obviously you're doing something wrong, or you fall into the italicized and underlined portion.
4) Content will just continue to get more difficult... deal with it.
huh... Well, Qarn was massively overpowered for a Level 35 dungeon and has been weakened. The only time I've lost in Brayflox due to a Replacement was when the replacement was undergeared or the rest of the party was bad.... So Qarn (along with Cutters Cry and Aurum Vale) are 'Exceptions to the Rule' which proves the rule on the other ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
and at that point, it becomes a GEAR CHECK issue. Were they undergeared? Likely. Was their Gear broken? Maybe. Thank the Twelve for the AIL requirement for High Level Dungeons now... of course, that won't stop you from changing gearsets inside (probably) but it will prevent people from queuing up without proper gear and accessories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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12-20-2013, 02:39 AMDaleI have lost instances due to the time limit. Temple of Qarn and Stone Vigil to name a couple. The time limit is not as generous as you are making out. And there is certainly not enough time given to replace members who had to go or deal with real life situations that might occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alhanelem
Also I should point out the time limit is so restrictive that it makes attempting to join a party in progress almost pointless, because nearly every time I have joined one it was a failure because of a lack of time. So not only is it punishing for people learning an instance or needing to deal with real-life emergencies, but it renders that game option completely worthless. So it doesn't even sync with the game design. -
12-20-2013, 02:42 AMDaleI disagree with almost all of your points, and not just because of your smug tone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnist
You are just incorrect. I have seem instances with intelligent people capable of learning fail due to the time limit. -
12-20-2013, 02:46 AMSeig345Funny, nearly every time I use in-progress, it ends in success...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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12-20-2013, 02:46 AMDaleI find that very difficult to believe. But I guess I'll take you at your word, because I hope you would not stoop to lying to make a point on a video game forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
Almost every time I join one, the party doesn't even fill back up before it becomes apparent there will not be enough time to finish. So I rarely even get to see a pull when I join one, let alone a successful completion. -
12-20-2013, 02:50 AMGithiun
I really dont understand why this matters or how this is really that big of a deal. I think Quarn is the only instance i've ever had expired but that was back in leveling days during release.
Why are people still hitting time limit....is it only on DF lower level dungeons? not trying to be a prick or anything I just really don't understand how it could take more than an hour to do a dungeon. -
12-20-2013, 02:54 AMSeig345The same point could be made about your statement of nearly every one being a failure...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
I've joined a party where there was 1 person left on the final boss, and then others joined, and the duty was completed successfully.Quote:
Almost every time I join one, the party doesn't even fill back up before it becomes apparent there will not be enough time to finish.
My only point with this is that no one person's experience with the game can be used to gauge how the experience must be for a minority, majority, or everyone playing the same game. -
12-20-2013, 02:56 AMDaleAnd that's exactly why people don't think this is an issue. Because they get to level 50 and then see the world through WP spam and forget what it was like struggling against the time-limit in those instances you mention. Or they simply don't care, since they are no longer affected by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Githiun
It is a real issue though, and there should be enough time allotted for players to comfortably learn instances or deal with having to replace members. -
12-20-2013, 02:59 AMDaleQuote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
We have had such wildly different experiences when using the join group in progress option that I think its safe to we aren't going to agree about this. -
12-20-2013, 03:04 AMRexQuote:
Originally Posted by razzgrizz3
First off, have you tried communicating with people in your own server? You'll have a much better experience that way. I never get a winning party for Titan Hard mode through the Duty Finder, but when I gather a few friends from my server, we never have any issues. Plus I get huge lag spikes using the Duty Finder for some reason.
Second, they're not going to DOUBLE the time limit...they JUST reduced it in 2.1.
Third, the time limit is there so that you can't sit in a dungeon all day and take up space on the Duty Finder servers. The timer is there so that other people can reserve instances and to relieve stress on the servers. -
12-20-2013, 03:11 AMSeig345
Well I'm curious, then. If the options the game currently has available to solve having to play with new players each time you queue-up just aren't acceptable at all, and doubling or removing the time limits is absolutely the only way to go, then what would be the answer to the inevitably increased wait times before you even got into a dungeon? Those wait times would apply to everyone, not just DF pugs or pre-formed parties. Those wait times that DPS players are complaining about with the game as-is? You'd start seeing those as a Tank or Healer, and Odin help the DPS players then.
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12-20-2013, 03:12 AMxwxmeowxvvx
For the in progress dungeons, I have run out of time once in Stone Vigil and that's due to needing a healer as well and one didn't queue until we only had 10 minutes left. Otherwise, I have run out of time four times. I have never run out of time on a pug run, but I also do less of these since I usually group with the same ppl, especially while I was leveling.
Once on Quarn - We really needed to figure out the first boss (still hate that boss), the second time we ran it after time expired we got it and finished the dungeon easy.
Second time in Cutter's Cry - Again, first boss, beat it with 6 minutes left with the healer kite strat. Next time got it down and beat it with plenty of time.
Third time was on the last story dungeon. We were watching the cutscenes and wiped on Ultima Weapon twice. Cutscenes are super long for the time they give you on that dungeon.
Last one was on Demon Wall, we were a little undergeared so it was a super pain. Now he is super easy and its actually a cool fight.
Even with these, I think the timers are fine. If it takes you longer to learn a fight while leveling then its totally fine to have to try again. There is no where that says you should be able to beat a dungeon on your first try every time. If you are running out of time on as many dungeons as you are saying than something is wrong. You sound like you have horrible luck, but in reality there really is enough time to learn the current dungeons, wipe a few times, and replace members for most groups. -
12-20-2013, 03:17 AMDaleI don't agree with you that it would increase wait times. In fact I would think it would make waiting times to join certain instances faster, because the join group in progress option would become more reliable. And nothing increases your wait time more than failing the instance due to the time limit and then having to re-queue all over again anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
Bottom line: groups who are going to complete instances fast would still complete instances fast. And I doubt the endgame myth spam would be affected by it what-so-ever. And if people wanted to be jerks, they could abuse the current system by queuing up and just sitting in the dungeons for hours on purpose to cripple the server. So if they aren't doing it now, I doubt they would start doing it just because the time limit was increased.
WoW does not have a time limit on their instance finder. It was not the end of the world. I doubt it would be on this game either.
All this change would do is give groups that need some more time more time. And that's not such a bad thing. -
12-20-2013, 03:26 AMSeig345Yes, all the people who would complete the dungeon in time would do so, which starts out great, but inevitably, because the slower groups take longer, even if some quick groups got in right as the servers came up after the maintenance to alter/remove the time limits, all the slots freed up after the quick groups are done have a chance to be filled with a slow group instead of another fast one, with the occasional bump when a quicker group happens to get in line. In the end you'd have more slow groups than fast groups in progress at any one time, meaning longer wait times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
In-progress is great, but unless you're saying that there's enough people having to drop out of their groups at all times that in-progress is a guaranteed instant-queue for all the people waiting outside, even that will only carry you so far. Not having time limits may not have ended WoW, but I certainly don't see having them being the end of Eorzea, especially with the options available, dismissed or not. -
12-20-2013, 03:31 AMDaleI dismiss them because they are broken in my experience. I understand your experiences have been different. But that join group in progress option has been made utterly worthless because of these time limits from what I have seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seig345
This isn't a debate I can win or lose, since it's theory and we won't know which of us is right unless they actually were to increase the time limits. So think I'll just leave it there. I think I have said all I can really say about it.