Uses for Unchained post 2.1?

As a new bandwagon Warrior I was learning to play some before the patch.

After the patch I don't really see when I would use Unchained except for DPSing moments as offtank.

Is Unchained into Overpower spams better than using stacks on Steel Cyclone?

its the best fight opener you can get

unchained berserker veng bb se sp then start another main hit IB then another SE

If you don't see the value in a 33% Damage Buff while in your high enmity stance... /facepalm

No words...

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

If you don't see the value in a 25% Damage Buff while in your high enmity stance... /facepalm

No words...

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weeeeeee.......

I understand the use of the move geez...

But why would I blow my 5 stacks on anything other than Inner Beast now with its 20% damage reduction if I am tanking.

And as others have pointed out, threat no longer really seems to be an issue with the enminty buffs.

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

If you don't see the value in a 25% Damage Buff while in your high enmity stance... /facepalm

No words...

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33% damage buff, since that is what it takes to nullifiy a 25% damage debuff.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

33% damage buff, since that is what it takes to nullifiy a 25% damage debuff.

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Fixed it. Ty.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

weeeeeee.......

I understand the use of the move geez...

But why would I blow my 5 stacks on anything other than Inner Beast now with its 20% damage reduction if I am tanking.

And as others have pointed out, threat no longer really seems to be an issue with the enminty buffs.

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I actually look at this like you are here, you haven't worded your OP that way though. It all comes down to personal flavor however. In Coil I would rather open with IB depends on boss/pull though. T1 for example, I'd rather Infuriate > Pull with Tomahawk > Vengeance (30% DR for his near instant hoodswipe) > Unchained > Heavy Swing > Berserk > rest of BB combo > SP combo > w/e. That is mainly because of his instant Hoodswipe though, and inability to get off IB easily first. For T2, I'd literally run from adds through ADS while IB'ing him. T4 if you are doing Dread I'd just single target till spiders are gobbled and save for IB before their Rotoswipe. T5, would use IB straight up, DD are on adds from start anyways.

So in other words just think about what you are fighting. We definitely don't "need" threat anymore, and if for some reason you think you'll be slightly shaky at the start, Berserk will more then give you the boost needed. Overall in most Coil situations you'll help the party more with IB over Unchained.

Unchained > Steel Cyclone. Unchained has a while on CD, so in situations you want the AoE damage do Unchained first, and SC if its on CD from first use. So take that as you will.

I don't think Unchained > Steel Cyclone for generating AOE threat. It's a single-target opener, that's it.

Overpower I guess technically goes from 90 to 120 potency under Unchained, conal and 130TP. So, 30 Potency AOE is gained, you need to drop 7 Overpowers to match Steel Cyclone which is 200, circular AOE and TP-less and doesn't take 7 GCDs to apply its effect. Burst Enmity >> Sustained Enmity for AOE, then you can focus on putting the damage debuff on as many mobs as possible.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

After the patch I don't really see when I would use Unchained except for DPSing moments as offtank.

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You should never be in Defiance as OT. You should be out of Defiance alternating SE and SP combos.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

Is Unchained into Overpower spams better than using stacks on Steel Cyclone?

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Yes, it is. However, you will never need it for enmity in 2.1 with the huge modifiers we have. Definitely more useful for single-target situations, but those are also trivial for holding aggro unless the OT doesn't know what to do and sits in Defiance spamming Butcher's Block.

Best to look at it in terms of DPS boost. You should use Unchained -> Berserk -> Inner Release on things like Titan heart phase to add to DPS checks, and occasionally early on when you have the cooldown time available between DPS checks.

//EDIT: Also,

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Originally Posted by ArcaneNova621

So, 30 Potency AOE is gained, you need to drop 7 Overpowers to match Steel Cyclone which is 200, circular AOE and TP-less and doesn't take 7 GCDs to apply its effect. Burst Enmity >> Sustained Enmity for AOE, then you can focus on putting the damage debuff on as many mobs as possible.

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I believe we will have to actually test the enmity modifiers before we can know for sure. It's possible that Steel Cyclone has a higher or lower modifier than Overpower.

That's true, however given they're very similar abilities I doubt this is the case. An opening Steel Cyclone is often enough to hold a pack of mobs for about as long as a couple Overpower which leads me to believe they're equal, but I haven't explicitly tested.

VS. most single bosses I just use it whenever it's up, I have 5 Wrath/Infuriate, and I'm not low on health/about to take a big hit. Also, as everyone else said, Infuriate -> Unchained -> Berserk is ridiculous for hate... but honestly you don't really need to do that anymore. It's good for snap threat to do Unchained -> Tomahawk -> Berserk -> Tomahawk/BB combo, though. For ADDs I've been sticking to SS (if I have 5 Wrath from previous pull) -> Berserk -> OP x2/3/4 (depending on how many mobs). Honestly just raw OP holds insane threat now, so if it's not ADDs on a boss I'd just stick to OP + Bloodbath.

Unchained is very good for openers especially for Demon wall, Unchained + all offensive cd's till its done then get out of Defiance for pure boss burn. That being said I generally save Unchained for Burst moments like in T4 when we kill the first and last dreadnought because the emnity buff that the tanks have is just so op I find myself using one flash followed my one Overpower then go into my combos.

Not to nitpick arcane, but unchained doesnt add potency to steel cyclone, wrath moves arent affected by the defiance debuff. everything else posted here is basically the reason to love unchained though. for a huge pull if youre speeding through a dungeon outside HMs and pharos, zerked unchain overpowers produce so much emnity, nothing will ever even come close to you. toss a vengeance in if youre really getting smacked around and emnity wont ever be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

Unchained is very good for openers especially for Demon wall, Unchained + all offensive cd's till its done then get out of Defiance for pure boss burn. That being said I generally save Unchained for Burst moments like in T4 when we kill the first and last dreadnought because the emnity buff that the tanks have is just so op I find myself using one flash followed my one Overpower then go into my combos.

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If you're in defiance for demon wall you're doing something wrong, that fight requires no tanking at all until the bees spawn.

I rarely use it. I won't blow 5 stacks for +DPS, when I'm tanking bosses. I rather utilize a back to back Inner Beast. Now if you wanna utilize it for shits and giggles, outside of an opener, try this:

Obtain 5 Stacks > Storm's Eye Combo > Unchained > Berserk > Internal Release > Infuriate > Butcher's Block Combo > Any Combo

You'll see some nice numbers.

Best used for quick burst agro situations and the end of an fight.......also best ueed to piss off fc pallys who insist on mt'ing ifi lol

So we are still undecided on Unchained and Overpower vs Steel Cyclone

Opener & Burn Phases

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

So we are still undecided on Unchained and Overpower vs Steel Cyclone

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Do both. Start of pull Vengence > build up Wrath Stacks to 4 > Berserk > Steel Cyclone > Infuriate > Unchained Overpower Spam.

Also, for fights like ADS, the moment you are about to Provoke, use Unchained first then Provoke, BB, and unleash High Enmity hell for some crazy lead over the party in Threat.

Unchained is worth using every time you have it up with Infuriate. That way your not technically wasting mitigation since usually that's saved for an emergency Inner Beast, but with the short cooldown in Infuriate, it's worth popping it every couple minutes for an Unchained to add more damage, and Storms Path healing.

And finally, it's worth using against EVERY single Pre-Coil boss fight ever. If you know you won't be forced away from the boss for movement, just do it.

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Originally Posted by ArcaneNova621

I don't think Unchained > Steel Cyclone for generating AOE threat. It's a single-target opener, that's it.

Overpower I guess technically goes from 90 to 120 potency under Unchained, conal and 130TP. So, 30 Potency AOE is gained, you need to drop 7 Overpowers to match Steel Cyclone which is 200, circular AOE and TP-less and doesn't take 7 GCDs to apply its effect. Burst Enmity >> Sustained Enmity for AOE, then you can focus on putting the damage debuff on as many mobs as possible.

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It takes 4 GCD's for Unchained into Overpower Spam to surpass Steel Cyclone into Overpower Spam. Not 7.

Steel Cyclone Overpower Overpower Overpower
200 90 90 90 = 470 Potency

Unchained Overpower Overpower Overpower Overpower
120 120 120 120 = 480 Potency

Other considerations:

I'm unsure if Steel Cyclone gets the 10% Crit Rate bonus from 5x Wrath.
If TP is at all an issue, Steel Cyclone is definitely the way to go. Saving 130TP is huge.
Unchained also helps your auto attacks and Vengeance counter attacks.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

weeeeeee.......

I understand the use of the move geez...

But why would I blow my 5 stacks on anything other than Inner Beast now with its 20% damage reduction if I am tanking.

And as others have pointed out, threat no longer really seems to be an issue with the enminty buffs.

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How about: you open with unchained and move into dmg reduction combo's asap 'since others have pointed out' that 'threat no longer really seems to be an issue'. That's one viable way to use it :)

Take risks, try out stuff. Reading and duplicating what others do, will not trigger your inner warrior beast. ;)

@Bokchoykn - Good catch on my poor maths. Still, I can't envision a scenario post 2.1 where I would have to use four Overpowers. I still prefer Steel Cyclone because of the sheer AOE threat it generates in just 1 GCD, and it's not conal and TP-free.

To the people asking about Unchained vs. Steel Cyclone for AOE, just go try it, different strokes for different folks. Some people like spamming powerful Overpowers, I like consoliding threat in 1 or 2 GCDs and then debuffing the more dangerous foes (P.S. the second one sounds like something a tank should be doing). For me, Unchained is to grab threat and bypass DPS checks, nothing more, nothing less.