Enmity no longer an issue.

I've tried stealing enmity as white mage, simply couldn't... Divine Seal, Regen, Medica II, Medica, I AoE healed all I wanted in trials without the bar even becoming yellow.

Am I the only one disappointed with this?

As a WHM main I havent tried this out yet but would have to say its a huge improvement. A main healer who is forced to wear cloth armour should not have to spend all the time under agro attack. If they had given us a mechanic such as if we threw in some auto attacks it reduced the agro it would have worked.

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Originally Posted by FoxiLady

As a WHM main I havent tried this out yet but would have to say its a huge improvement. A main healer who is forced to wear cloth armour should not have to spend all the time under agro attack. If they had given us a mechanic such as if we threw in some auto attacks it reduced the agro it would have worked.

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You see... that's what made healing as white mage interesting to me. I had to work together with the tank, and manage my enmity as I AoE healed, using Shroud in emergencies.

It was an annoyance, but a very satisfying one.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Would you rather go back to a shortage of tanks?

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I think this has more to do with how simple paladins are, while warriors are complex but not as desired.

To be honest, I'd rather go on a shortage of tanks than what we're having now. As a paladin player myself, I hate it being even more simpler than now.

I did notice this in Ultima Weapon battle. The main tank and me were trying to get hate, but Ultima just remained on him. Of course after a couple of provokes, flashes, and shield lobs I managed to get it' hate.

I have been testing this as well and found that I am quite able to take hate whenever I want to. It takes a little more effort to actually get full hate but I like that. Means I can DPS more and throw out more heals to those who need it.

Happy with the changes to enmity.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I've tried stealing enmity as white mage, simply couldn't... Divine Seal, Regen, Medica II, Medica, I AoE healed all I wanted in trials without the bar even becoming yellow.

Am I the only one disappointed with this?

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Except for the fact if a tank isn't as geared as say the healer or dps, the tank can ONLY manage to hold on to threat (and by that I mean barely) by doing the enmity combo over and over, having to ignore other combos that may give out buffs and debuffs
That's not good game design

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Originally Posted by IfritReborn

Except for the fact if a tank isn't as geared as say the healer or dps, the tank can ONLY manage to hold on to threat (and by that I mean barely) by doing the enmity combo over and over, having to ignore other combos that may give out buffs and debuffs
That's not good game design

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Bad design is forcing people with level 55 weapons play the same dungeon as people with relics. Having people watching their damage/over healing is good design.

We need some connection between the people playing, which was what enmity meters gave us. Holding back on damage to not grab aggro, catching on when you can AoE, when you can't, when you can just focus on one mob because the other party members are attacking that one...
All those little things that made you feel like you're playing with other people with different play styles and skills.

Now? Just AoE everything. Almost like.... WoW.

I haven't tried it out yet, but I am glad that enmity generation for whm is reduced. Maybe other players aren't experiencing this.

It makes it easier to keep the party topped of without generating hate.

I managed to keep emnity with a broken Curtana (0% condition) at Pharos Sirius today. I see it as an improvement, but... tanks now will be more lazy and less reactive. As a tank, I enjoyed the possilibity of losing my emnity. It kept me focusing on multiple targets, pay attention to my party's member actions and the whole environment. That intensive moment when your Bard is at 1 hit of stealing your emnity, he doesn't care, because he's a DPS (JK) and there's a small line called GCD, those 2.5 seconds between keeping the monster's emnity or losing it against the Bard. Those damn seconds were an eternity.

On a side note: On my server, there was never a shortage of tanks. Tanks leveled up and there was little (or none) motivation for going back to previous dungeons. I see a lot of tanks everyday, since I started to play to now.

The problem is that paladin has nothing to do other than enmity generation, at least warrior has other things they can do once they have established hate. Paladins? ZZZzzzzZZ... It's an incredibly boring class I must say.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

We need some connection between the people playing, which was what enmity meters gave us. Holding back on damage to not grab aggro, catching on when you can AoE, when you can't, when you can just focus on one mob because the other party members are attacking that one...
All those little things that made you feel like you're playing with other people with different play styles and skills.

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The thing about this is.... DPS does not and WILL not care about the meters. YES some good players out there will hold back. But the majority of players will go balls to the wall as son as a shield lob goes out. This is just common fact and the increase in enmity is a well deserved change.

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Originally Posted by IfritReborn

Except for the fact if a tank isn't as geared as say the healer or dps, the tank can ONLY manage to hold on to threat (and by that I mean barely) by doing the enmity combo over and over, having to ignore other combos that may give out buffs and debuffs
That's not good game design

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That's not true. WAR max enmity generation is SE/BB/BB anyway; there was no reason to every drop Maim from your rolls. I could hold aggro on ilvl90 MNK and SMN at the same time while wearing ilvl55 gear. Gearing just made everything fluff. I can see adjusting it upward slightly to account especially for the need for Storm's Path, but it seems that this is a bit overboard.

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Originally Posted by Sunah

The thing about this is.... DPS does not and WILL not care about the meters. YES some good players out there will hold back. But the majority of players will go balls to the wall as son as a shield lob goes out.

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It's the tank's job to make that possible, and any tank could manage in 2.0. Only exception is when the tank needs to move the opponent from the starting point, and that's something an enmity boost won't help because the tank isn't attacking for the duration.

Shield Oath got quite the enmity boost since I tanked a dungeon today and didn't have a problem holding most groups with just 2 flashes.

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Originally Posted by zdub303

The problem is that paladin has nothing to do other than enmity generation, at least warrior has other things they can do once they have established hate. Paladins? ZZZzzzzZZ... It's an incredibly boring class I must say.

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Yeah, this is the main problem I think. This opens up a lot of wiggle room for WAR to actually DPS, to work in a bunch of different things, but all PLD can do is A -> B -> C. To be fair, that's all PLD could do before too, though. :P

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Originally Posted by Sunah

The thing about this is.... DPS does not and WILL not care about the meters. YES some good players out there will hold back. But the majority of players will go balls to the wall as son as a shield lob goes out. This is just common fact and the increase in enmity is a well deserved change.

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I've not had any problems with it. Most people don't like monsters hitting them.

DDs already have very light shoulders, I don't see benefit of making it even easier for them.

I can understand it being hard on white mages, but just lower some enmity from their heals, then. No need to make a huge part of group playing almost ignorable.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Sorry, but if a healer can easily steal aggro with a tank doing nothing but their +enmity combo with a +1 relic, something is wrong. I never complained about it, but that's a fact.

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I 100% disagree with this, It should be a team thing to control enmity. It should not be tank only and everyone else can go all out 100% of the time.

i still get hate when im not even doing anything

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Yeah, this is the main problem I think. This opens up a lot of wiggle room for WAR to actually DPS, to work in a bunch of different things, but all PLD can do is A -> B -> C. To be fair, that's all PLD could do before too, though. :P

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But you had wiggle room as a WAR before. Open up with smart usage of Unchained and Berserk stacked and you could push yourself far ahead to mix in different abilities. If DPS can't stay on the target the whole time (dodging and what not), you got more wiggle room. The key, and the fun part was knowing when you had it and how effectively to use it.

But now it's just ... there. Open with Unchained and Berserk and I may as well stick to my non-threat combos since they do all the buffs. I barely even have to bother trying to generate threat, it just happens.

It seemed like a great balance before, maybe they needed a little tweak to allow WAR to switch to BB->BB->SP from BB->BB->SE and have it generate the same amount of threat (since it does about 10% less damage), but they've gone way too far and took away an interesting and fun part of the game (enmity management).

hmmm.. i did sirious (couldnt compleyed though, we were all new and wanted to figured out.. was fun but couldnt figured out the second boss before time ran out) and i didnt noticed this, at sm point the emity was yellow and i had to stop.
i will agree with someone above, i like playing together c the tank watching my hate, though no always work.
havent notice any issue yet, but havent play enough to noticed

PLD is pretty boring to play especially in basic fights like Titan HM. I prefer to do things on my whm.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I've tried stealing enmity as white mage, simply couldn't... Divine Seal, Regen, Medica II, Medica, I AoE healed all I wanted in trials without the bar even becoming yellow.

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Go to Thornmarch and double cast Medica for the king's opening attack. Let me know how it goes. ;)

Yeah. Enmity management has been removed from the game. Not casual enough.

Running AK as an i80/DL Warrior, the i90 BLM+1 couldn't even come close to taking hate no matter how much he threw at the mobs. Two overpowers and the mob doesn't have enough HP for the DPS to take hate back.

I don't like it. Skillful play through managing enmity on group pulls is gone. Now it's just grab hate and manage outgoing/incoming DPS.

my quad flares say emnity is still an issue @@

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Originally Posted by Darkshneider

my quad flares say emnity is still an issue @@

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How do you manage quad without the UI3 tick?

Best I can see is flare, convert, flare, ether, flare.

/Genuinely interested, I miss quad flares.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

How do you manage quad without the UI3 tick?

Best I can see is flare, convert, flare, ether, flare.

/Genuinely interested, I miss quad flares.

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Flare,convert,Flare,Elixir/ether,Flare<quickly transpose at previous flare animation>,Flare

As a tank (warrior and paladin) that has never had enmity issues I like this change. I get to do something other than spam RoH or BY now. It's especially awesome with warrior as I can now use all of my skills without having to BB twice in between each other combo.

Also noticed. Can't attest to how good the player was, but had an ilvl 90 monk with relic and a ilvl 55 tank. Watching the enmity bar throughout the dungeon, DPS enmity was never above a fraction of the tank's, not even when the bosses where going down really quickly.

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Originally Posted by Darkshneider

Flare,convert,Flare,Elixir/ether,Flare<quickly transpose at previous flare animation>,Flare

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Thanks, I will try this out. Is that last flare cast under UI3 though?

Noticed the changes yday in coil, pretty happy with them considering I used to be able to pull hate whenever I wanted as a BRD, even after using QS. Much better if you ask me. Means I can actually DPS now instead of having to wait till 80% to engage stuff cause BRD hit too hard.

Oooo, I knew something was up last night. Only had time for 1 run but I just thought the tank was doing a good job. Either that or the Bard nerfs were a lot worse than I though, lol.

Honestly, I did think it was bad before but now it seems too easy. Tanks needed better enmity generation but there should still be a danger of pulling from him if you get too trigger happy.

I'm disappointed because, with these changes, it will be more difficult to "accidentally" let a mob slip away to attack my healer friend to keep her on her toes.

Shield Oath was previously not giving the enmity boost correctly. Now it is.

Noticed this in Coil, as well. I like it 'cause i can rely on Flash less and start applying my Rage of Halone debuffs earlier. It definitely helps on Turn 4 with the knights/soldiers and the double juggernauts.

I'm happy with this change. I consider myself a good PLD, I rarely loose hate, and when I would I could get it back pretty quickly. But it still seemed broken. Sometime (i assume because of regen) the mob would just run directly to the whm before even engaging. Other times, I'd have full hate, and it would still run off, and then to get it back I would have to spam flash till I was out of MP, provoke, shield lob and it still wouldn't come back. I think there still needs to be some hate management, nothing should just be automatic, but if I have hate set, and am doing my ws rotations etc, I should never loose hate. In FFXI, once I had hate built, it was impossible to loose except for a magic burst which is understandable. But with FFXIV it's kind of a guessing game. IMO.

Lower level dungeons is still pretty difficult to keep hate.

Scenario was a 50 relic tank (PLD) in Roulette, lost hate a more than once, and was kinda struggling.

I know not much information, but if people can share their experience we will have more to go by :)

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Originally Posted by Meshico

Lower level dungeons is still pretty difficult to keep hate

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I dont think so. My previous example was a roulette for Copperbell Mines. Then again, I think the only actual on-level player was the one PUG so maybe its tougher for non-downscaled players

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Originally Posted by Kayo

I dont think so. My previous example was a roulette for Copperbell Mines. Then again, I think the only actual on-level player was the one PUG so maybe its tougher for non-downscaled players

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Yeah, being synced (especially being in synced gear) or not makes a large difference. Before 40, GLA/PLD is in the same enmity situation as pre-patch (except now they're competing against melee that hit harder than they did before). Comparative level & gear level will be a factor.

I'd imagine MRD is fine regardless. Overpower's enmity buff was also significant. In Sastasha, my Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder would not keep enmity off of the SMN's Titan-egi, but Overpower would.

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I've tried stealing enmity as white mage, simply couldn't... Divine Seal, Regen, Medica II, Medica, I AoE healed all I wanted in trials without the bar even becoming yellow.

Am I the only one disappointed with this?

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Nope. As a tank with both PLD and WAR relics, I can tell you that the enmity+ buffs went a little too far. I don't even have to pay attention when I'm tanking anymore.

Of course, I was already awesome at tanking to begin with, so I couldn't tell you how the buff affects crummy tanks. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I've tried stealing enmity as white mage, simply couldn't... Divine Seal, Regen, Medica II, Medica, I AoE healed all I wanted in trials without the bar even becoming yellow.

Am I the only one disappointed with this?

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This is not true for me. I can pull hate off a tank with my SCH almost instantly. There are some tanks that indeed are great and know their class and I can't pull off them but that's been going on since before this patch. Also, our FC healer pulled hate off our tank on the Siren fight by spamming cure III (messing around for our first dungeon run :D gotta make it fun!) and Medica I and II and pulled easily. I don't know what you're doing, but what ever you're doing keep doing it so you DONT pull hate and cause a huge headache for everyone else. If a tank knows his class inside and out, you'll never be able to pull from him, no matter how hard you try while wasting your mana.

I was telling fc lastnight while doing coil enimty is to much now. I don't even have to hold back from nuking. It's getting to the point of to dumbed down pretty soon.

SE some people weren't meant to play this game stop dumbing it down. I left ff11 cause of this....