Summoner's Job Evolution

Summoner's should summon something higher than the Egi's for there job evolution because right they only summon Final Fantasy XIV's versions of Elemental Spirits. The evolution of the Egi's would be similar to the Espers in Final Fantasy XII they would be twice the size of the player with all their corresponding Primals abilities.

This topic has been beaten to death.

As for a short answer on why things are the way they are: the game's lore explains it in detail, both in the Summoner's storyline and within the main quest.

A lot of players disagree with the way summoners work, but you cannot deny that with the lore of THIS game... it makes sense.

We simply aren't strong enough to control an Egi larger than the one we have without becoming corrupted. It is my hope that with a level cap increase will also come a more powerful (larger?) version of the Egis to reflect our growing strength. This will not happen for a while, though.

I'm sorry, but the game's "lore" is a poor excuse for why summons are the size of lalafells.

There's nothing wrong with the way summons look at the present. It's not unlikely that they'll get better with future patches and expansions, as we gain higher levels and more abilities. Just play the game, have fun, and have faith that things can only get better later on.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I'm sorry, but the game's "lore" is a poor excuse for why summons are the size of lalafells.

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I am sorry but lol haha

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Originally Posted by Seobit

It's not unlikely that they'll get better with future patches and expansions, as we gain higher levels and more abilities.

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According to the developers, it's very unlikely, as they've stated they have no intentions of making Egi any bigger. It took them years to improve Summoner in Final Fantasy 11. I'm not going to hold my breath and hope against hope they'll make changes on their own here. I don't know about you, but the idea of chibi-Leviathan, chibi-Shiva, and chibi-Fenrir who are all overshadowed by chibi-Garuda's Contagion, gathering dust on the shelf does not sound interesting to me.

That's why I started the feedback threads in the English and Japanese forums.

They don't need to make them bigger to make them look more fierce and detailed.

ps3 limitations

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Originally Posted by Seobit

They don't need to make them bigger to make them look more fierce and detailed.

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Open-world enemies didn't need to be bigger either, but that didn't stop the developers from making them larger in patch 1.16 in March 2011 due to player disfaction. Having said that, size isn't really the main point I was trying to make in my post.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I'm sorry, but the game's "lore" is a poor excuse for why summons are the size of lalafells.

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You may not agree with it, but it makes sense in the game's lore. Again.

Egis are made from the same source as Primals, but they are not made from the Primals. It's like their creation is tapped from the same energy.

The beastmen call upon that energy to create the Primals, and because they have been collecting power and revering them, the primals have grown to have a mind of their own. They have grown large, incredibly detailed, and cannot be controlled. They are like gods that are given power through the people who believe in them. It is why the 'primals grow stronger when the beastmen are upset'.

A summoner is just one person. We tap upon that same energy, and what we come up with is an Egi that is much smaller and not as defined as the larger primal. It looks more like energy than a living being. In your storyline quests, you quell the Egi that has been created from this energy to make it your own. You need to conquer it to control it. According to the lore, you would not be able to handle anything more without it corrupting you (like the primals corrupt the beastmen) or overpowering you (like the primals have a mind of their own)... which is why I say it may change in the future, but it is not how it is going to be for now. The Egi must be weak enough to obey your every command.

I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't like. You can tell me you don't agree with it -- but it makes sense. If you want to argue that the game's lore should be changed and the current summoner is not summoner enough, then that is another story.

According to the story and lore we can't be overpowered and corrupted by the Primals since we have the light of Hydaelyn. Even though we are only one Summoner tapping into more energy to summon Primals that are twice the size of the player wouldn't break game lore since they are not as large and powerful as the Primals summoned by the Beast Tribes. Also the size and detail of the Primals has nothing to do with it's power considering Hard Modes and Extreme Modes and Square already broke lore rules when they had Lightning summon Odin during the Wonder and Lightning Fate.

I wouldn't take anything that happened involving Lightning seriously -- in either FFXIII or FFXIV lore. She specifically says, "I probably won't remember any of this, so please remember for me" (or something to that effect). Her appearance is just fan service and I really rolled my eyes that they would mention FFXIV lore at all. I'm fine with her randomly appearing for some promotional FATE, but mixing her up in this game lore was a bad idea.

We do have the light of Hydaelyn, but Hydaelyn is not infinite, as you will discover in the Praetorium storyline. At one point she(?) says she is exhausted and can't help anymore; you're on your own to end it. You do, thankfully, but that whole situation displays that even the light of the crystal can't absolutely save you. If it could, adventurers wouldn't be needed in the first place. As summoners grow in power, so too do their Egis. Remember the main antagonist you fight in the storyline? His Egis are larger, and he has more powers. You somehow miraculously defeat him, but he is a prime example of summoner power = Egi size/definition.

As far as the detail/size... this was merely an interpretation by me, but something I think is very real now that I've seen footage of the Titan extreme fight. If you've seen the video, you'll notice that Titan's brothers/pets/minions are the same model as YOUR Egi, except much large and slightly more defined. They aren't the BRIGHT yellow pure Earth elementals like your Egi, but rather a darker rocky color like Titan himself. They also have more defined abilities. They look more like lifelike entities instead of purified elements.

But you might be saying... "Hey! Garuda's sisters have always looked just like her and they still do!" You are right. I think this was an error on the dev team's end, because the 'sister' mechanic of Garuda has been around since she was first released in 1.0 -- except it was actually slightly different (they had different vulnerabilities). I imagine that summoner wasn't even in the works at that point, so it was not thought about when they used the same model for her sisters/minions.

That's nonsense, explain the Avatars in FFXI? The fact that people can be in a hundred Magitek armors proves othwise. SE simply choose to have Egi look the way they look. Mind you I'm fine with and actually like them but I wouldn't mind a slight size increase.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

It is my hope that with a level cap increase will also come a more powerful (larger?) version of the Egis to reflect our growing strength. This will not happen for a while, though.

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I would much rather get new summons such as Leviathan, Ramuh, and Shiva for level cap increases to be more versatile, but it would be fine if there was a trait that increased pet effectiveness with a bonus of increased of scale change.

You know, I thought the same what with the size of the summons.. but honestly, after seeing them, making them larger would get in the way of game mechanics. People who click on their targets instead of using the keyboard would have to reposition their camera and such like crazy if the summons were too large, though maybe a tad larger would be neat.

Not to mention, making them larger would make their ranges silly, and increasing the range to be proportionate would be too much.

Would be neat if there were spells that involved a summoned creature, beast, etc who then performed an aoe or targeted attack and then went on cooldown.. kinda like the classic summons from the older games, appearing for their attack and disappearing. Though, that idea would be a complete change to the class that will more than likely never happen.


EDIT: Oh, and for the record, don't bother going "Oh, you are only lvl 29 arcanist, not even a summoner yet" I've seen summoners running around, so... still have an idea about that particular point.

I think they should remove the Egi idea, why giving us Lowered primals ? Give us High Elemental/Holy Spirits and Beasts instead !!!

Leave the Primals to the beast tribes, they're like Racial Deities in FFTA, they shouldn't be able to be summoned by a summoner, the FC summoning one is a good idea though.

But give us full entities like Carbuncle is, it's not like there's not enough summons that exists through all the FF series !

Why not giving us let's say, cerberus as a fire pet ? Ixion as a lightning one ? Valefor as wind, and so on...

Those summons would be a less powerful "life-form" than the primals, but would still make us feel like summoners, because they would be complete, detailed, and maybe as big as a mount can be ? We don't need it to be bigger than the current mount !

We all know it's not a graphical/technical restriction, when we see the amounts of Magitek armor wandering everywhere...

I think they should tweak the lore a bit, and give the summoner real summons, we don't need the formal Ifrit/Shiva/Ramuh/Titan etc. summons, they have so many that they could give us instead !

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Originally Posted by Xolotl

I think they should remove the Egi idea, why giving us Lowered primals ? Give us High Elemental/Holy Spirits and Beasts instead !!!

Why not giving us let's say, cerberus as a fire pet ? Ixion as a lightning one ? Valefor as wind, and so


I think they should tweak the lore a bit, and give the summoner real summons, we don't need the formal Ifrit/Shiva/Ramuh/Titan etc. summons, they have so many that they could give us instead !

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They wouldn't give us High Elementals like Carbuncle because that's what the Egi's are right now and High Spirits like Cerberus, Ixion and Valefor are equivalent to the Primals in other Final Fantasy titles except they are the smaller version of the Primals so either way Square would make it so as your Summoner grows in power you Egi's would become a smaller version of the Primals.

Lore wise, whats to stop theoretically a bunch of summoners getting together and summoning a larger Egi or something similiar to a Primal? I thought Primals came into existance via a combination of Aether and concentrated "worship" or sorts, so why can Beastmen do it and not Summoners? I guess what I am getting at is, say if you have two summoners in a party, why can't they combine their powers to summon a larger primal being?

My only hope is once I reach level 100, and my egi can oneshot the level 50 primals, that I get to get that primal.

Its only fair.

Or rather a "fragment" of their power is many times stronger than the primal itself.

Unless we are fighting the same 3 goddamn primals our entire lives.

They'll run out of adjectives soon.

Story
Hard
Extreme
EXTREME
EXXTREME
EXXXTREME

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Originally Posted by Seobit

Just play the game, have fun, and have faith that things can only get better later on.

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I am normally a bubbly optimist however this last patch has crushed my little Lallafell soul ; ;. If SE keeps driving the NERFMOBILE as hard as they are against my two main jobs WHM and SMN by the time they reach the lvl 100 cap I will be lucky if I am not one shotted by Lady bugs...

Lets be honest, 75% of us expected something a little closer to 11 and that's why we picked SMN... Instead we're more like warlocks from wow

On the Beta forums, I saw someone bring up a concept similar to AION's Spiritmaster, where as the class leveled, their pets became more detailed and subsequently larger. It's my hopes SE can implement something similar. As it stands now, I have no issue with the size or appearance of our Egis. I love the lore behind our Egis and to me it makes perfect sense how they work story-wise and their implementation in-game. However, looking at the future, a level 100 Summoner should be able to command something much more formidable than a level 30 Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I'm sorry, but the game's "lore" is a poor excuse for why summons are the size of lalafells.

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lmao that comment made me day got a good laugh out of it xd

I believe the quote is "size does not matter"

in terms of practicality I don't really want a 20 foot summon in a raid anyway

You just need to use the thunder stone on your Ramuh Egi and he'll become Raichu.

Simple fix for this, Spur = more pronounced Egi.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Snip.

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This actually makes no sense, as your character was supposed to be immune to primal corruption due to "echo" plotholes ftw! also you saying that a summoner is just one person kinda takes away from the Grandeur that has always been known as summoners.
Yuna would turn in her grave.

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Originally Posted by Devaking55

This actually makes no sense, as your character was supposed to be immune to primal corruption due to "echo" plotholes ftw! also you saying that a summoner is just one person kinda takes away from the Grandeur that has always been known as summoners.
Yuna would turn in her grave.

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I think all Summoners from past Final Fantasy games will be turning over in there grave with Final Fantasy XIV version of Summoners if Square wanted to model a Summoner Damage Dealer they should've went with Rydia

I'm a smn from 11 and I liked the job but I felt more like support than a mage. In the past ff games smns were the kings of magic dmg. In 11 I couldn't compete with a blm.
In XIV I do feel that my pet isn't as bad ass as I'd expect but at the same time I don't feel handicapped when it's not alive. In 11 when my pet was down I was literally my sub job (whm). Until the blood pact cooldown wore off I felt dead weight. In XIV I do feel more like a warlock from WoW but at least I don't feel worthless without my pet. I got some pretty good dmg dealing ability's without the pet.
What I was thinking about with the whole egi is too small. What if we had an ability much like astral flow from 11. Something with a long cooldown, I hate to bring up that word because we already have issues with enkindles recast, but for a brief amount of time your pet was super charged and it changes into the actual primal for the duration?

I feel more like a DOT class than a SMN Job, I just wish the focus was more on controlling the Egi with DOTs as a supplement. As it is right now DOTs take priority over using the Egi as the primary force of defeating the lore.

If you look at past Final Fantasy titles Summoner's where a combination of Black Magic and White Magic a high damage burst class with the ability to Summon High Spirits and God like beings. Originally Summoner's started off as an Evoker which is what we are now I think to create a full fledged Summoner Square should have us combine with a Black Mage

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Originally Posted by Akiza

If you look at past Final Fantasy titles Summoner's where a combination of Black Magic and White Magic a high damage burst class with the ability to Summon High Spirits and God like beings. Originally Summoner's started off as an Evoker which is what we are now I think to create a full fledged Summoner Square should have us combine with a Black Mage

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I agree with this, I use Blizzard 2 more than I thought as appropriate in dungeons and solo. More beneficial to SMN than Thunder.

I don't like how egis look so small... its ugly, make it larger but not the same size of primals for sure! just like that small titan which appeared in Titan extreme, current SMN feels like a warlock lol.