RMT Land Seizure Question

Just a question related to this warning posted on the patch notes:

* Purchasing land or housing using gil obtained from RMT (real money trading) or other illicit means is strictily prohibited. Any land or estate hall deemed to have been purchased through such means is subject to seizure.

While of course it makes sense to everyone and i am not challenging it..

My question is, what if we don't know?

For instance, I am a Free Company master over on Ragnarok (the second most expensive server for housing) and we have been putting gil in our bank for a while now but its been quite little and only reached 3million (which i thought before the live letter would get at least medium LOL how wrong was i)


Since the live letter more members have been handing in higher sums of gil and I have had to put a warning on our forum:

"RMT Gil
Please note: If you have paid for gil please DO NOT donate to the housing fund as it will risk the house being taken from us in the long run"

But how am I to know if a member has bought gil or not? I currently don't suspect a member of my FC to have bought gil but you never know.. how will we be affected if they have? would be really annoying to have gathered 25million and then be seized cos it is deemed 1% of it is RMT.

Also, on that note.. even though I am in a LS that offers free help for relic fights including titan, me and my members are considering having to merc to save enough money for housing.. what if the person wanting a carry has bought gil and then we use that gil?

I hope all these are legitimate questions and i don't get trolled off the forum by the regular QQer's and people who don't read well.

SE will prob be able to track where Gil came from if an FC bought one of the exuberantly priced houses. Would not do it.

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

But how am I to know if a member has bought gil or not? I currently don't suspect a member of my FC to have bought gil but you never know.. how will we be affected if they have? would be really annoying to have gathered 25million and then be seized cos it is deemed 1% of it is RMT.

Also, on that note.. even though I am in a LS that offers free help for relic fights including titan, me and my members are considering having to merc to save enough money for housing.. what if the person wanting a carry has bought gil and then we use that gil?

I hope all these are legitimate questions and i don't get trolled off the forum by the regular QQer's and people who don't read well.

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If Gil is obtained via RMT or other illicit means kiss that house goodbye

Maybe they have a threshold, will be insanely unfair if some FC bought it for 320,000,000 with 15,000,000 as rmt gil donated by 1 FC member that rmt, causing the remaining 305,000,000 to go down the drain.

SE genius strategy

1.) tease people with housing for months
2.) release it so expensive its virtually non-existent for most players
3.) make people resort to RMT to afford the crazy prices
4.) take the RMT house from you

instead of this housing they should invested their time and resources to give us content all paying subscribers can enjoy imo , now it just makes people pissed off :)

Talking to some other FC leaders on my server the other night. None of us even come close to having the gil we need for housing. If someone does get a house within the first month or so its going to cause massive speculation about where they managed to get that much gil. People will start reporting FC's, just on speculation. Lots of fingers will be pointed. With prices like those what else are you supposed to think?

Well what's the problem. You personally know all the 135 members of your FC name by name, strict friend of all of them, right? ROFL
And all of them is not a moron just simply thinking to put any money an on FC where that guy is a noone , a tear in an ocean of players, and noone will even give a damn to say him thanks to help to buy OUR house, why he would buy out gils from an RMT? All 135 members of your FC are honest and go to the curch on sunday right? :rolleyes: You already have 3 mil? I truly pity the donators :rolleyes:
Tomorrow that guy will pop up chatting, some douche start one of the famous pointless discussion so famous on eng guild chats, he gets kicked.
I guess your FC is planning to give him back his hundred thousand gils, setting the plan to buy the house next week/month (depends on his offer while he was a member of your FC).
Owww don't tell me, someone else bough the plot you was dreaming? :( :rolleyes:
Oh i skipped the part of the leader kicking out every member keeping for himself the multibillionaire house lol :D

p.s just to be clear, i used your thread with a proper doubt indirectly, well, answering you with a "good luck and pray noone bough 1 single gil from RMT when he made a donation"

Yoshi truly don't see how moronic is the price of housing and the issues behind it :rolleyes:

I can see it now we will have a house ceased and place 7 very arractive GM agents in it to go under cover as players and root out evil we will call it....Graceland.

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Originally Posted by Teon

snip

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i literally could not follow any of this post it had so much broken english in it.. i can't even tell if you are being sarcastic because i don't understand the ps. part

so just a couple of thing to address this post from what i did understand:

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You personally know all the 135 members of your FC name by name, strict friend of all of them, right? ROFL

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actually yes, i know the active members, of the 135 members we have about 40 members that sign in regularly and i know them all, why wouldnt i? we only have so many members cos i don't want to kick people for them to re-appear in 2.1 with no FC

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I guess your FC is planning to give him back his hundred thousand gils

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On our forum, in the admin section where only officers can see is a list of all donations made by which players.. and it is known if a member who has donated should need his gil back then we have record of how much he has given us and will get it all back, so that would include someone leaving the FC

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You already have 3 mil? I truly pity the donators

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Why pity people who want to have an FC house? we are an FC that works together and are all friends why leave it to the guy with the master next to his name to collect 25million? i assure you the biggest ammount of gil will be coming out of my pocket.. lead by example no?

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Owww don't tell me, someone else bough the plot you was dreaming?

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with current prices i doubt it

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Oh i skipped the part of the leader kicking out every member keeping for himself the multibillionaire house lol

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i could understand this bit being a joke which is why the rest of your point confused me..

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

i literally could not follow any of this post it had so much broken english in it.. i can't even tell if you are being sarcastic because i don't understand the ps. part

so just a couple of thing to address this post from what i did understand:



actually yes, i know the active members, of the 135 members we have about 40 members that sign in regularly and i know them all, why wouldnt i? we only have so many members cos i don't want to kick people for them to re-appear in 2.1 with no FC

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The other 95 members will not donate? Are they all dead players offline from weeks? Eww..i hope you will clean up a bit that fake number when 2.1 is out :)
Mind me, there are active fc with capped number, all active. Let me laugh a bit talking about " you personally know them all right? " :)

Talking about those 40 active players, the FC house founders, noone of them will never ever be kicked for any reason at all becasue he gave money to buy the house?
You will give back his money previously used to buy the house , when kicked, one day? Erm.. :rolleyes: (Beware kick or "i'm done here i'm leaving" are the same, here. He wants back his hundred thousand / million gils)
I truly hope you got some million gils as a backup if any issues arise and members wants their money back , by the time the house is bought :)
I don't pity them because being nice donating. I pity them for the issues reported on my "broken english" post.
Read it again slowly, i covered every single issue and abuse about housing on this moron patch. ;)
Bet on it, a lot of players are planning any possible abuse, even inviting randoms, asking funds for housing, and kick them after the donation is done. ;)

Take it easy, last part was a bit sarcastic. But face it, what would stop you to kick out everyone when the house is ready, full of unique items? :) Be sure, there will be way more jerks planning this abuse then you imagine.
And no forget the report, they go free, we all know the GM answer about this issue (deal with it, you chose a bad leader) ;)

As expected, the p.s. wasn't enough for an eng community poster to understand i don't give 2 damn of who are you and/or your FC.
I just used your thread (and that sad 3 million fund) as a nice example of how many issues will arise with this patch and the actual price.
Your thread is one of them noone tought. RMT customer destroying million of gils in a day.
Focus on ths p.s. where i gave you the answer you was needing, and as i wrote already: pray noone bough from rmt, donating. Would be a shame losing millions of gil because one single guy ruined everything huh? :)

Peace :)

We can't know for sure, but SE has already shown what it will do in other situations:
- Player A crafts or gathers high-demand item and puts it up for sale.
- Player B presumably buys RMT gil and uses that to buy Player A's item from market board.
After a while of this, SE notices Player A's large amount of gil, declares it "dirty", and confiscates it all. Player B keeps the gear and keeps playing.
In short: don't expect "fair". Expect autocratic. Hope you don't get noticed.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

We can't know for sure, but SE has already shown what it will do in other situations:
- Player A crafts or gathers high-demand item and puts it up for sale.
- Player B presumably buys RMT gil and uses that to buy Player A's item from market board.
After a while of this, SE notices Player A's large amount of gil, declares it "dirty", and confiscates it all. Player B keeps the gear and keeps playing.
In short: don't expect "fair". Expect autocratic. Hope you don't get noticed.

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This is what I was wondering... what happens if you're person A and had some minor transactions that happened to unknowingly be from player B, and you donate 1 mil of your own gil towards a 300 mil housing? Does the entire house get nabbed by SE because of something you had no clue about?

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Originally Posted by Teon

Focus on ths p.s. where i gave you the answer you was needing, and as i wrote already: pray no one bough from rmt, donating. Would be a shame losing millions of gil because one single guy ruined everything huh? :)

Peace :)

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Exactly. I never heard of a company punishing a whole group of paying costumers because one bad apple broke the rules. What are they going to do next wipe out every players account who sold stuff on the market board if it was purchased by someone who had been involved with RMT?

IMO this whole housing thing is being done very poorly. Having a huge capital investment that you can't take with you if you move one is just silly. The cost should be in the upkeep/maintenance of the housing so it's costs are a weekly fee so you only pay for your time in the FC be it one year or one month.

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Originally Posted by Cerulean79

Exactly. I never heard of a company punishing a whole group of paying costumers because one bad apple broke the rules. What are they going to do next wipe out every players account who sold stuff on the market board if it was purchased by someone who had been involved with RMT?

IMO this whole housing thing is being done very poorly. Having a huge capital investment that you can't take with you if you move one is just silly. The cost should be in the upkeep/maintenance of the housing so it's costs are a weekly fee so you only pay for your time in the FC be it one year or one month.

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I'm pretty sure they wanted to give it that small sense of realism. Ever looked into owning your own property/plot of land? It's usually the most expensive part of owning a house.

Like most anything in video games, new things are usually not intended to be "given" to everyone. Only those who worked towards it (with enough effort or by satisfactory requirements) can obtain them first. I know my FC isn't gonna be able to afford housing for a good long while. Doesn't bother me at all though.

They are capable of tracing from where gil was obtained. I don't think this will be a major issue for the most part, however I do share the concern about free companies with members that might be buying gil without the rest of the company knowing. Simply taking the house away would screw a lot of people for the actions of one or two, so this type of matter will need to be handled delicately.

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

Just a question related to this warning posted on the patch notes:

* Purchasing land or housing using gil obtained from RMT (real money trading) or other illicit means is strictily prohibited. Any land or estate hall deemed to have been purchased through such means is subject to seizure.

I hope all these are legitimate questions and i don't get trolled off the forum by the regular QQer's and people who don't read well.

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My logic would dictate that if a large sum of the gil used to purchase housing is from RMT, then it's raising a lot of flags. If let's say 1 % of it was RMT then they'll probably shake it off as inevitable. It depends how the gil gets in hand as well.

Questions such as was the gil transferred from another person to person to market board to person to fc bank or direct from a gil seller to person to fc bank are probably looked at.

The cynical view would be this is a trap to just seize people's house whenever they want. Tracing RMT money is basically impossible because it's the same issue as money laundering. Let's say I buy 100M from RMT. I put 5M in guild bank. I buy 9999 Fire shards for 200K, a Vanya Hat for 1.5M, and so on. The guy who sold the Vanya Hat probably then put that money to buy more stuff, and probably some of it into buying a house as well. Before you know it, everyone's got this tainted money. Sure, it's easy to notice the first step where I bought 100M from a RMT, but what about the guy who sold me a Vanya Hat for 1.5M? You can argue no one would pay that much for it, but who are you to tell me what I do with my money? What if I'm just clueless and don't care about massively overpaying because I just bought 100M? Or is that guy selling the Vanya Hat someone I know to make the money look legit? You can't possibly sort this stuff out.