2.1 Limit Break Adjustment for Parties

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"When multiple characters are playing the same class/job in a party, the gauge for level 2 and level 3 limit breaks will now fill more slowly than before."

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This has got to be one of the biggest (and questionable) changes in 2.1 which I don't understand. I have a static coil team (PLD, WAR, WHM, SCH, DRG, BLM, 2 x BRD formation), and I can't help but worry about how much this change will affect us. Can we have more information on this new adjustment? How much slower will the limit break gauge fill now?

My suggestion - Instead of penalizing teams with duplicate characters, give a buff to unique team formations instead. The players should be given the liberty to decide what characters they wish to play.

I'm afraid of suddenly not being able to do Coil because of some nerfs.

SMN nerf - damage loss for Dreadnoughts.
WHM nerf - less damage for the Bugs.
Limit break nerf - every team needs LB. T2 is kind of obnoxious without two bards.
BRD nerf - self explainatory.
Virus nerf - stuff in Coil hits hard enough even with Virus.

People loved to say that Coil is doable with DL, and that CT lockouts didn't hurt anyone, but with all those nerfs I'm not so sure.

What happens when your group has 2 PLD's and 2 BRDs??? Does this make it even slower???? I would love to know.

I actually like the change to be honest. One concept i've been extremely tired of since 1.0 is class stacking. Jobs can compliment each other, and this idea that we need to bring 2x blm or 2x brd all the time needs to go away.

I'm fine with change. Face it, too many parties would neglect someone simply cause they weren't a job they could stack such as Bard or Paladin. This left alot of jobs pigeon-holed. This change is SE's answer, now to you and others may agree its subjectively the wrong answer. You do realize from the get go the vision for FFXIV was party diversification, they didn't create jobs simply so they could be sidelined...

With all the nerfs and buffs (war, drg, mnk, sch are getting tremendous buffs) going on, it remains to see if all things will balance out. But I just can't fathom this limit break nerf on non-unique party formations. Why can't we just play whatever character we wish and not get penalized for it? I understand that SE is encouraging more diversity in party formations but aren't there other ways around it? For me, buffing parties w non-duplicate set-ups would be much more acceptable~

2 pld, 2 whm and 2-3 of same DPS all found in duty finder, Good luck trying to get a LB for anything lol.

For some fights I think this will really mess things up if it is too slow, currently some groups have to "wait" on Titan to get half a LB bar, now they have to wait even longer making it more difficult in later stages.. Will you get LB in time for Ifrit for the nails? Not fully needed but it helps a lot.

For my coils, LB is pretty useless so for my FC so it doesnt affect us, we only use it on T1 to kill the last snake which even then not really needed, T1 doesnt matter how slow it is we already have it by last node so can be slower, even then not needed, Turn 4 we use it a Nook to prevent POX, bu then we're almost mid way through bar 3 and we only need 2, but we can probably make do with loosing it completely.

I think it might affect strategies that kind of rely on it being fully charged at certain times.

I wonder though, if LB was slow to begin with and the update said "Parties with less duplicate classes would result in a faster LB progress" which is identical, would people still be upset?

Yes the thinking of "you cant take this or that job into Coil"( for example) does need to go away. But WHY penalize people if their group just HAPPENED to have a set up that they preferred to play two jobs together? My group is PLD, PLD, BRD, BRD, BLM, DRG, WHM, & SCH. We all CHOSE to play this set up b/c we had the jobs already geared and if not, GEARED them for COIL b/c it works for us to get through it. Now we get penalized for forming a party that WORKS??? We now have to consider either taking time away from even doing it to re-gear/re-level, or kicking long time friends since 1.0 from our static. I just think its stupid. I like the OP's suggestion.

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My suggestion - Instead of penalizing teams with duplicate characters, give a buff to unique team formations instead. The players should be given the liberty to decide what characters they wish to play.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

I actually like the change to be honest. One concept i've been extremely tired of since 1.0 is class stacking. Jobs can compliment each other, and this idea that we need to bring 2x blm or 2x brd all the time needs to go away.

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Jobs can compliment each other and every class definitely can find a way to manage most situations. For eg, T2 lots of people prefer to go 2 x BRD for easy silencing of High Voltage. But a PLD (or even a monk and scholar) can do the same too. Not the most favorable but definitely viable. The main question is why are we being "punished" for playing the characters we wish to play?

All i wanna know is... what about dutyfinder? Does that penalty exist if you go through dutyfinder? If it does, what a horrible mistake.

I really don't get why the Limit Break gauge was adjusted. Is there really a point to penalize people for that?

I can understand their concern about class stacking. It's to prevent having 2 Paladins, 2 Warriors, 2 Bards, 2 BLMs, etc.

For healers, it's not a big deal. In any content that matters you generally see groups running with WHM/SCH.

Tanks is another story. You often only see double paladin as of 2.0. With the 2.1 changes, Warrior got a huge boost not only in tanking capability, but they got BRD's RoD debuff AND can increase slashing damage. You want to take a Warrior for variety.

DPS is hit or miss. It shouldn't be hard to find varied DPS in the game for coil groups. It sucks for premades that already ran dual bard or dual blackmage, but I can see WHY SE wanted more variance in the parties. Bringing only 1 melee sucks, there should be incentive to have both Monk and Dragoon in a party. That's just my thought on it though.

I do feel, however, that instead of NERFING Limit Break guage, they should INCREASE the Full Party stat bonuses a group gets if it's completely varied. Boost how much STR, DEX, MND, INT, and PIE a group gets if everyone's a different class. Bam. Not only are you not screwed in Twintania limit break building, and not only do you have classes that can completely support one another, but your stats are increased. I'm not saying it has to be a huge increase, but any increase is a good increase.

You mean, they indirectly made Coil a little harder if you rely on class stacking? Yoshida has always been against the stacking of classes and this goes back to 1.0 when it happened in most end game content (mass of BLMs in Ifrit for example).

Now, you are encouraged to actually make use of a Paladin + Warrior, rather than 2 Paladin or 2 Warrior. 2 Bards is also something you should do with caution. I expect a reasoning behind this is to give a good reason for players to let others play jobs they want to play, rather than forcing them to play a specific job so that they can actually do content. They could have provided bonuses for mixed party setups, but then the balance would come with a reduced amount of that stat bonus you get in other situations. All this really means is that, if you want to class stack, you should be prepared enough that you cannot rely on having the LB available - it's a crutch action, not something to always utilize.

I say this knowing that it will also affect my own Coil group; we often use 2 BRDs, and also have 2 of us on DRG (because we like to play the jobs we want to rather than what works the best).

I just like that the best way to fill your LB gauge is to play like shit and almost let people die.

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Originally Posted by ReithDynamis

Face it, too many parties would neglect someone simply cause they weren't a job they could stack such as Bard or Paladin. This left alot of jobs pigeon-holed. This change is SE's answer, now to you and others may agree its subjectively the wrong answer. You do realize from the get go the vision for FFXIV was party diversification, they didn't create jobs simply so they could be sidelined...

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What about the static groups who have doubles of things because that's what our members want to play? It's got nothng to do with deliberately side-lining people and everything to do with wanting to encourage folk to play what they want. If that means we bring 2 PLDs or 2 BLMs or 2 MNKs or 2 BRDs (all things we do regularly), then that's what we do. The LB change is ridiculous and depending on the severity of the nerf could seriously hinder a party's ability to complete content.

Bring the player, not the class. We shouldn't be forced to bring one of everything to ensure optimal use of LB.

Only people that rely on class stacking are going to notice this, people who play mixed and just clear things no matter how their setup is, won't see any difference.
You people act like they NEED LB's to clear encounters while you know well enough that it's not the case.
If you rely on the LB to clear encounters, you should re-evaluate your groups performance.

This just encourages people to have more variety in their group setups, which honestly, it not a bad thing if you ask me for the community.
People get being excluded from raids and what not, just because they are playing a class that isn't as viable as other's, which is something the devs apparently frown upon(and so do I)
I'm all for this change to be honest.

I'm not saying every group that has multiple of the same class is stacking purposely and excluding other classes, but it seems most actually are.

All in all though, I think people who are against it are severely overreacting.

This change kinda makes sense, as Yoshi has confirm the incoming of Hybrid Jobs and there are 2 slots in a party make up that is designated for them. I guess he wants us to get used to not stacking Jobs and having 1 of each Job to make the game more balanced.

my thoughts on it

I thought the game already had this mechanic.

But it's a welcome change. I'm tired of all these ignorant groups who think they have to stack up on certain classes.
Only reason why they have double classes in the first place is because they were ignorant bias against another.

im 99.99% sure that no one will even notice the difference with only 2 duplicate classes.
IF you go with 4 of the same class then you'll notice something.
He said slower, slower can mean 0.5% slower or 50% slower, so hold your horses before complaning.

I think they're trying to combat the issue that not every job can compliment each other when double stacked.

Barb + Bard = Easier silence / more songs
Black Mage + Black Mage = Massive AoE / Burst Damage

Other classes when stacked together don't give such a strong advantage. (Enlighten me if they do)
Now there's a choice to make. If you want to double stack classes then your limit break charges slower.
Pros and cons for everything!

I cant wait to test the new healer LB to see if we get the invulnerability buff and shorter lockout so we can actually get resetup and utilize the effect.

All I gotta say is, this is what happens when everyone keeps opening up their big mouths about 'stack ranged, melee is useless'. For all the people that did that constantly, they shot themselves in the foot, as well as those of you who didn't say that. But there's your answer as to one of many of the big reasons 'why' right there. Should be kinda obvious. The entire reasoning behind this, is due to people constantly excluding others out of it to optimize the run. So now it's setup so that you benefit from variety, more so than stacking brds, blms, and plds for a easy win.

Nothing will change, melee will still die too quickly. They should be giving incentive to change, not force it upon people. How much u want to bet that melee will always be left out no matter what happen?

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

Now there's a choice to make. If you want to double stack classes then your limit break charges slower.
Pros and cons for everything!

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Before the nerf, some people complain about being sidelined because of their class.

After the nerf, other people complain about being sidelined... because of their class.

>_> We shouldn't be punished for our members playing what they want to play.

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Originally Posted by viion

For my coils, LB is pretty useless so for my FC so it doesnt affect us, we only use it on T1 to kill the last snake which even then not really , T1 doesnt matter how slow it is we already have it by last node so can be slower, even then not needed, Turn 4 we use it a Nook to prevent POX, bu then we\\'re almost mid way through bar 3 and we only need 2, but we can probably make do with loosing it completely.

I think it might affect strategies that kind of rely on it being fully charged at certain times.

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wow my coil group barely gets level 1 by the time the third dread spawns. We have an all unique setup too, no multiple jobs

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

I'm afraid of suddenly not being able to do Coil because of some nerfs.

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I'd absolutely love it if coil was made harder, here's hoping you're right.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

and this idea that we need to bring 2x blm or 2x brd all the time needs to go away.

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Plus side, less chance of competing for gear with someone of your job (specifically as blm, because let's be honest, when has anyone ever actually wanted smn for anything), downside, slow lb lol

I wouldn't trade our Summoner for any other class, bads gonna bad lol.

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Originally Posted by Sliff

.... sch are getting tremendous buffs

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Didn't know that a 5% heal increase to Lustrate on top of a major blow to Virus was considered "TREMENDOUS" - lol!

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

But it's a welcome change. I'm tired of all these ignorant groups who think they have to stack up on certain classes. Only reason why they have double classes in the first place is because they were ignorant bias against another.

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Originally Posted by Heartwire

This just encourages people to have more variety in their group setups, which honestly, it not a bad thing if you ask me for the community.

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I respectfully disagree with both of you. What about static groups of friends, where everyone chooses to go the class they want to? My group has a PLD and WAR as our tanks and we never coerced our WAR friend to go PLD. Instead, we adopted our own adjustments to the strategies to handle the coil mechanics. However, I main a bard in the group and so does another. Why are we getting hit with this unnecessary limit break adjustment? [cont]

[cont] The point I wanted to bring out in this discussion is, doesn't this go against the very idea that we should be allowed to play whatever class we wish to? Implementing such a solution to resolve class stacking feels very myopic to me. Some people here have also highlighted their concerns on how this may potentially affect DF parties. And what about players who are looking for pug teams? Does this mechanic end up giving people a harder time to find parties? Adding in this mechanic really seems very questionable~

Hopefully the warrior buffs will have me back on my warrior. As for the 2 brds issue, I'm a bit worried about that. Our setup is 1 PLD, 1PLD/WAR, WHM, SCH, BLM, DRG, BRD, BRD.

Our DPS pre Patch is so high we can clear all the turn 4 phases with no overlap. I'm betting that won't be the case after this patch.

Not only is this concerning, but think about queuing for Crystal tower in the DF and getting a PT with 4 blm's or something wacky like that (OMG LB Builds SOOO SLOW).